Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s hard to know what you’re really asking about OP. You’re presenting her as a genuinely great kid who likes new clothes and material possessions too much but that can’t be what you’re really concerned about if you’re asking us how to “course correct.” You’re not being forthcoming enough about what’s worrying you about her behavior for us to really advise.

Fair point. This is OP. I’ll share the catalyst for my post.

My daughter came home from school recently and told me about “this weird thing” that happened at lunch. Apparently, a cafeteria worker followed a student to her table, removed an item from her tray, left the main meal, and said something about there not being money for whatever side item it was. When I asked, my daughter confirmed that the girl still had a meal.

The girl is someone my daughter knows from two classes, though they aren’t friends. My daughter overheard her telling friends that she didn’t understand what had happened because she’s on the free lunch program.

My daughter had a lot of questions afterward: how people qualify for free lunch, how common it is at her school (about 30% of students), whether it’s easy to qualify, and so on. We talked through all of that. We discussed how embarrassing the situation must have been for the girl and how the cafeteria worker could have handled it differently. My daughter understood and agreed with all of this.

I then reminded my daughter that she carries emergency cash in her backpack and told her that if something like that ever happened again, she could discreetly help out and I would replace the money.

Quite frankly, her response disappointed me. She asked, “Why would I do that? XXX is so mean.”

I was taken aback. I told her that we treat people with kindness and understanding because of our values, not because of how they treat us. She said she would think about it.

I could share other examples, but this one was the most direct. There are texts from friends that go unanswered because she’s tired or simply just doesn’t feel like responding. Sometimes I feel she doesn’t offer friends the validation or attention they’re looking for. She’s just not someone who readily sacrifices her own convenience for others. For example, with her sport there are a lot of carpools, and she consistently positions herself to ride with her closest friends rather than considering what might be easiest or most helpful for the group. She just always seems to out herself and her needs and wants first in a way that I don’t see in my other children.

I’m curious what your zodiac sign is and what hers is: there’s a dynamic here I think is worth exploring that comes down to maybe she’s not a bad or selfish kid but she’s operating from a value system totally different than yours.

The appearance of niceness is what matters to OP, not the actual concerns or behaviors of the children.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m going to sit on my hands otherwise but you have a mean girl and you have contributed to her materialism and her likely mistreatment of other girls without Alo leggings and Stanley cups.

You’ll never fix it or her by being the kind of woman who produced that for years.

You realize posting this kind of thing means you are a mean girl, right?

You’re offended. Unlike OP, and you, my husband and I inculcated empathy into our tween DD. She is as “accomplished” as what OP has described and is very well-liked. She is not cold, mean, or instrumentalist. Because it mattered to us and because of who we are.

You’re a little on edge because you and OP failed in this as mothers. Failed, and now are lurking here faux-fretting about what can be done when that trait has been refined for years and years now by your parenting and communication. Parents who are troubled by their neurotypical tweens and teens who are cold and lack empathy are the culprits. We both know that.

This is OP.

Your comments throughout this post don’t align with the person you claim to be. The repeated unkindness and negative assumptions you’ve made are a reminder of why it’s so important to teach my daughter empathy, kindness, and respect for others. I want her to grow into someone who seeks to understand people rather than tear them down or elevate herself by diminishing others.

I genuinely wish you well and hope whatever experiences have shaped this response are met with healing and growth. Truly.

If only you’d put the effort into your attempt at a takedown into your DD - you wouldn’t be here.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m going to sit on my hands otherwise but you have a mean girl and you have contributed to her materialism and her likely mistreatment of other girls without Alo leggings and Stanley cups.

You’ll never fix it or her by being the kind of woman who produced that for years.

You realize posting this kind of thing means you are a mean girl, right?

You’re offended. Unlike OP, and you, my husband and I inculcated empathy into our tween DD. She is as “accomplished” as what OP has described and is very well-liked. She is not cold, mean, or instrumentalist. Because it mattered to us and because of who we are.

You’re a little on edge because you and OP failed in this as mothers. Failed, and now are lurking here faux-fretting about what can be done when that trait has been refined for years and years now by your parenting and communication. Parents who are troubled by their neurotypical tweens and teens who are cold and lack empathy are the culprits. We both know that.

Wow good point you sound so kind!

So kind, and offered such great advice too!

The solution has been discussed here and it isn’t a class, book or podcast - it’s the modeling and myriad shifts in how they function as a family and what they show DD. They won’t do it because this has happened because of an ingrained decade of parenting patterns. This is seen repeatedly in families where empathy was simply not valued. It’s not one talk or one summer.

If your middle schooler never ever does anything that’s immature or you’re not entirely proud of you’re either a liar or you’ve been too controlling.

Op didn’t describe mean behavior she described a middle schooler being more materialistic than mom would like-if you think that means mom (who is trying to work on this!) and daughter (who probably believed in Santa like 2 years ago) are irredeemable that makes you an unkind jerk.

And in my experience it’s moms like you who are so sure their kids are perfect who are in for a rude awakening about what kind of person they have raised, not moms like op who are grappling with their kid (like all of us!) having room for growth.

Flinty, flinty. I’ve never held the belief that my DC are “perfect.” They are as human and flawed as each of us. That is also distinct from what the topic allegedly is: failing to help DC develop empathy in pursuit of “achievement.” You’ll never ever learn, but that’s certainly a you problem.

How old are your other children?

I don't know, OP. I think your kid made a good decision. As uncomfortable as that situation must have been for the kid it happened to, I don't know that engaging with her directly and offering money would have made the situation better. It may have made the kid embarrassed and given those feelings a "target"--your DD.

I also think that it is asking a lot for a teenager to think through carpooling logistics and prioritize efficiency over social time/her own comfort zone.

The fact that she wanted to process the cafeteria incident is a really good thing, imo. That might have been an opportunity for you to ask some questions and make it more of a discussion rather than reinforcing the idea that there is only one way to handle this kind of situation. Like - how do you think the kid felt? What would your daughter want someone to do if she were in that situation? Would she be open to help from a friend more so than an acquaintance (or someone she actively dislikes) and why? Would there be a way for the cafeteria worker to have handled it better? What constraints might the worker be operating within (e.g. maybe she is fined for items that are not allowed to be counted under the free lunch program)? And ... philosophically ... why is there stigma for a kid to be getting a free lunch when it's certainly not their choices that put them in the position of qualifying for that program? (Even more philosophically, is poverty really about "choices" or other factors? haha but maybe that's getting a little far from the original topic.)

Obviously don't go down the list like an interrogation but it's just a few things that came to mind as a way that you could approach your daughter with curiosity and maybe get to know her and even learn a little from her--it doesn't have to be a one-way street.

Regarding carpool ... not to pry, but is there a chance that your daughter is the youngest in your family? The simple fact is that they have not had the amount of practice that older/middle sibs have in putting their own needs to the side. I actually don't think this is a bad thing OR a good thing, but kind of a neutral thing. Or maybe I should say there are good and bad things that go along with it--like for instance, I think it's more than ok to have boundaries and not feel the need to answer every text message, I think it's ok to want to be with friends during carpool, I do *not* think it is ok to have a temper tantrum or make someone feel bad because they act like they are being forced to carpool with a non-preferred friend (not saying your daughter did this, just an example)

I appreciate your approach and attempt to engage with your kid, none of us is perfect but all we can do is ask questions, reflect, and try to do our best. I would never think that someone who is asking these questions is mean or a bad parent, in fact I think the opposite is true.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s hard to know what you’re really asking about OP. You’re presenting her as a genuinely great kid who likes new clothes and material possessions too much but that can’t be what you’re really concerned about if you’re asking us how to “course correct.” You’re not being forthcoming enough about what’s worrying you about her behavior for us to really advise.

Fair point. This is OP. I’ll share the catalyst for my post.

My daughter came home from school recently and told me about “this weird thing” that happened at lunch. Apparently, a cafeteria worker followed a student to her table, removed an item from her tray, left the main meal, and said something about there not being money for whatever side item it was. When I asked, my daughter confirmed that the girl still had a meal.

The girl is someone my daughter knows from two classes, though they aren’t friends. My daughter overheard her telling friends that she didn’t understand what had happened because she’s on the free lunch program.

My daughter had a lot of questions afterward: how people qualify for free lunch, how common it is at her school (about 30% of students), whether it’s easy to qualify, and so on. We talked through all of that. We discussed how embarrassing the situation must have been for the girl and how the cafeteria worker could have handled it differently. My daughter understood and agreed with all of this.

I then reminded my daughter that she carries emergency cash in her backpack and told her that if something like that ever happened again, she could discreetly help out and I would replace the money.

Quite frankly, her response disappointed me. She asked, “Why would I do that? XXX is so mean.”

I was taken aback. I told her that we treat people with kindness and understanding because of our values, not because of how they treat us. She said she would think about it.

I could share other examples, but this one was the most direct. There are texts from friends that go unanswered because she’s tired or simply just doesn’t feel like responding. Sometimes I feel she doesn’t offer friends the validation or attention they’re looking for. She’s just not someone who readily sacrifices her own convenience for others. For example, with her sport there are a lot of carpools, and she consistently positions herself to ride with her closest friends rather than considering what might be easiest or most helpful for the group. She just always seems to out herself and her needs and wants first in a way that I don’t see in my other children.

Your daughter has great skills! She notices things and asks you about them. She has good boundaries. Mean people do not automatically deserve your assistance, you do not have to answer every text when it comes. She is not a doormat and your should be proud.
A lot of the kindness and SEL curriculum is doing a disservice. Many kids now think you can behave however you want and everyone has to be kind to you and be your friend. In the real world if you are not nice people probably won't buy your lunch. It's good to learn that lesson when you are young and have time to change.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m going to sit on my hands otherwise but you have a mean girl and you have contributed to her materialism and her likely mistreatment of other girls without Alo leggings and Stanley cups.

You’ll never fix it or her by being the kind of woman who produced that for years.

Wow, who hurt you? That was a rather mean spirited and unhelpful response. And you’re wrong about a lot. She doesn’t own Alo leggings or a Stanley cup. We have more of an Aerie leggings and Odwala water bottle budget, to be honest. I also think you have a distorted idea of me and my parenting but that’s not my concern. I do wonder though what motivates such an unkind response to someone asking about how to encourage more kindness in their child. Do better! -OP

I have done better, so I’m not facing your ‘dilemma.’

The irony of a mean mother claiming to have a non-mean daughter… you have been nothing but rude and unkind to the OP who is aware and trying. Do better.

I agree. OP, just the fact that you’re concerned about this means you’re probably doing a great job!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Have you considered going to church weekly? The youth at our church have large hearts, do service projects together, and talk about empathy and reflect on others. Love the people, serve the people mentality.

Those type of churches say all kinds of great things and then go back to the world as their same old bigoted, selfish, hateful ways.

Yep. My son has several Catholic friends who do the youth group. One of them constantly uses racist and homophobic language at school. It’s sad.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m going to sit on my hands otherwise but you have a mean girl and you have contributed to her materialism and her likely mistreatment of other girls without Alo leggings and Stanley cups.

You’ll never fix it or her by being the kind of woman who produced that for years.

You realize posting this kind of thing means you are a mean girl, right?

You’re offended. Unlike OP, and you, my husband and I inculcated empathy into our tween DD. She is as “accomplished” as what OP has described and is very well-liked. She is not cold, mean, or instrumentalist. Because it mattered to us and because of who we are.

You’re a little on edge because you and OP failed in this as mothers. Failed, and now are lurking here faux-fretting about what can be done when that trait has been refined for years and years now by your parenting and communication. Parents who are troubled by their neurotypical tweens and teens who are cold and lack empathy are the culprits. We both know that.

This is OP.

Your comments throughout this post don’t align with the person you claim to be. The repeated unkindness and negative assumptions you’ve made are a reminder of why it’s so important to teach my daughter empathy, kindness, and respect for others. I want her to grow into someone who seeks to understand people rather than tear them down or elevate herself by diminishing others.

I genuinely wish you well and hope whatever experiences have shaped this response are met with healing and growth. Truly.

Very classy response, OP.

And to be clear, that wasn’t sarcasm. I think it was very good. Dignified, clear, boundaried, respectful,

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m going to sit on my hands otherwise but you have a mean girl and you have contributed to her materialism and her likely mistreatment of other girls without Alo leggings and Stanley cups.

You’ll never fix it or her by being the kind of woman who produced that for years.

You realize posting this kind of thing means you are a mean girl, right?

You’re offended. Unlike OP, and you, my husband and I inculcated empathy into our tween DD. She is as “accomplished” as what OP has described and is very well-liked. She is not cold, mean, or instrumentalist. Because it mattered to us and because of who we are.

You’re a little on edge because you and OP failed in this as mothers. Failed, and now are lurking here faux-fretting about what can be done when that trait has been refined for years and years now by your parenting and communication. Parents who are troubled by their neurotypical tweens and teens who are cold and lack empathy are the culprits. We both know that.

This is OP.

Your comments throughout this post don’t align with the person you claim to be. The repeated unkindness and negative assumptions you’ve made are a reminder of why it’s so important to teach my daughter empathy, kindness, and respect for others. I want her to grow into someone who seeks to understand people rather than tear them down or elevate herself by diminishing others.

I genuinely wish you well and hope whatever experiences have shaped this response are met with healing and growth. Truly.

Very classy response, OP.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m going to sit on my hands otherwise but you have a mean girl and you have contributed to her materialism and her likely mistreatment of other girls without Alo leggings and Stanley cups.

You’ll never fix it or her by being the kind of woman who produced that for years.

You realize posting this kind of thing means you are a mean girl, right?

You’re offended. Unlike OP, and you, my husband and I inculcated empathy into our tween DD. She is as “accomplished” as what OP has described and is very well-liked. She is not cold, mean, or instrumentalist. Because it mattered to us and because of who we are.

You’re a little on edge because you and OP failed in this as mothers. Failed, and now are lurking here faux-fretting about what can be done when that trait has been refined for years and years now by your parenting and communication. Parents who are troubled by their neurotypical tweens and teens who are cold and lack empathy are the culprits. We both know that.

This is OP.

Your comments throughout this post don’t align with the person you claim to be. The repeated unkindness and negative assumptions you’ve made are a reminder of why it’s so important to teach my daughter empathy, kindness, and respect for others. I want her to grow into someone who seeks to understand people rather than tear them down or elevate herself by diminishing others.

I genuinely wish you well and hope whatever experiences have shaped this response are met with healing and growth. Truly.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s hard to know what you’re really asking about OP. You’re presenting her as a genuinely great kid who likes new clothes and material possessions too much but that can’t be what you’re really concerned about if you’re asking us how to “course correct.” You’re not being forthcoming enough about what’s worrying you about her behavior for us to really advise.

Fair point. This is OP. I’ll share the catalyst for my post.

My daughter came home from school recently and told me about “this weird thing” that happened at lunch. Apparently, a cafeteria worker followed a student to her table, removed an item from her tray, left the main meal, and said something about there not being money for whatever side item it was. When I asked, my daughter confirmed that the girl still had a meal.

The girl is someone my daughter knows from two classes, though they aren’t friends. My daughter overheard her telling friends that she didn’t understand what had happened because she’s on the free lunch program.

My daughter had a lot of questions afterward: how people qualify for free lunch, how common it is at her school (about 30% of students), whether it’s easy to qualify, and so on. We talked through all of that. We discussed how embarrassing the situation must have been for the girl and how the cafeteria worker could have handled it differently. My daughter understood and agreed with all of this.

I then reminded my daughter that she carries emergency cash in her backpack and told her that if something like that ever happened again, she could discreetly help out and I would replace the money.

Quite frankly, her response disappointed me. She asked, “Why would I do that? XXX is so mean.”

I was taken aback. I told her that we treat people with kindness and understanding because of our values, not because of how they treat us. She said she would think about it.

I could share other examples, but this one was the most direct. There are texts from friends that go unanswered because she’s tired or simply just doesn’t feel like responding. Sometimes I feel she doesn’t offer friends the validation or attention they’re looking for. She’s just not someone who readily sacrifices her own convenience for others. For example, with her sport there are a lot of carpools, and she consistently positions herself to ride with her closest friends rather than considering what might be easiest or most helpful for the group. She just always seems to out herself and her needs and wants first in a way that I don’t see in my other children.

I’m curious what your zodiac sign is and what hers is: there’s a dynamic here I think is worth exploring that comes down to maybe she’s not a bad or selfish kid but she’s operating from a value system totally different than yours.

Anonymous wrote:It’s hard to know what you’re really asking about OP. You’re presenting her as a genuinely great kid who likes new clothes and material possessions too much but that can’t be what you’re really concerned about if you’re asking us how to “course correct.” You’re not being forthcoming enough about what’s worrying you about her behavior for us to really advise.

Fair point. This is OP. I’ll share the catalyst for my post.

My daughter came home from school recently and told me about “this weird thing” that happened at lunch. Apparently, a cafeteria worker followed a student to her table, removed an item from her tray, left the main meal, and said something about there not being money for whatever side item it was. When I asked, my daughter confirmed that the girl still had a meal.

The girl is someone my daughter knows from two classes, though they aren’t friends. My daughter overheard her telling friends that she didn’t understand what had happened because she’s on the free lunch program.

My daughter had a lot of questions afterward: how people qualify for free lunch, how common it is at her school (about 30% of students), whether it’s easy to qualify, and so on. We talked through all of that. We discussed how embarrassing the situation must have been for the girl and how the cafeteria worker could have handled it differently. My daughter understood and agreed with all of this.

I then reminded my daughter that she carries emergency cash in her backpack and told her that if something like that ever happened again, she could discreetly help out and I would replace the money.

Quite frankly, her response disappointed me. She asked, “Why would I do that? XXX is so mean.”

I was taken aback. I told her that we treat people with kindness and understanding because of our values, not because of how they treat us. She said she would think about it.

I could share other examples, but this one was the most direct. There are texts from friends that go unanswered because she’s tired or simply just doesn’t feel like responding. Sometimes I feel she doesn’t offer friends the validation or attention they’re looking for. She’s just not someone who readily sacrifices her own convenience for others. For example, with her sport there are a lot of carpools, and she consistently positions herself to ride with her closest friends rather than considering what might be easiest or most helpful for the group. She just always seems to out herself and her needs and wants first in a way that I don’t see in my other children.

Anonymous wrote:If creating good kids was as easy as not buying them leggings and water bottles, everyone would do that.

I don’t agree. I think some parents care more about their kids being “popular” and “cool” than being kind.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m going to sit on my hands otherwise but you have a mean girl and you have contributed to her materialism and her likely mistreatment of other girls without Alo leggings and Stanley cups.

You’ll never fix it or her by being the kind of woman who produced that for years.

Wow, who hurt you? That was a rather mean spirited and unhelpful response. And you’re wrong about a lot. She doesn’t own Alo leggings or a Stanley cup. We have more of an Aerie leggings and Odwala water bottle budget, to be honest. I also think you have a distorted idea of me and my parenting but that’s not my concern. I do wonder though what motivates such an unkind response to someone asking about how to encourage more kindness in their child. Do better! -OP

I have done better, so I’m not facing your ‘dilemma.’

The irony of a mean mother claiming to have a non-mean daughter… you have been nothing but rude and unkind to the OP who is aware and trying. Do better.