Anonymous wrote:Woof I left my husband and divorce was finalized this year. His Involved Husband act…I just couldn’t handle any more. His favorite phrase “I’m not a mind reader, you just need to ask me when you need help.” Meanwhile, laundry is overflowing, dishes in the sink, I’m getting everything done for the kids etc etc.
honestly we had the income to outsource a lot of that stuff but it killed the attraction so much it was hard to sleep with him.
Whether divorcing was a good idea- who knows. He’s a man who makes six figures and has yet to pay for anything substantial for the kids since our separation. Kind of proves my point. Major underperformer, major turnoff.
For the record we did counseling at least 3 times during our 15 year relationship (10 married). I don’t think it helped I think it just kicked the can down the road. I wish I had left earlier.

Sounds like the two of you could have saved your marriage by suggesting to outsource, and then outsourcing.

You both have to really want divorce to avoid this simple solution.

One would think having children would be an incentive for two adults to set aside their Weaponized Dysfunction games.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No abuse. No cheating that I know of. Just one person who is fine with the status quo (him) and one person who is not (me.) Late 40’s, marriage 20+ years, two teens.

Is there any point to marriage counseling? Or are my choices just accept it (I’ve tried!!) or leave?

What specifically are you unhappy about? What would you hope to change?
Its hard to answer your question without understanding whether or not you have valid reasons.

I want to make plans and do things. I want him to want to make some (not all) of those plans. I want him to want to do anything other than just work and sit at home doing nothing. He is in charge of cutting the grass and paying the bills that come due. He couldn’t tell you what days our kids have practice or games or where. He will call me on his way home from work and say “does anyone need to be picked up?” And “what were we thinking for dinner?” and to him this makes him an Involved Father. Never reads school emails, team emails, group chats. Never fills out forms or signs anyone up for anything. Never plans a vacation or a basic meal or an activity. His idea of a plan is “what should we watch on Netflix?” About once a week he will feign interest in me which is my cue that he wants to have s*x. And then he’ll be checked out again until the next time. It’s boring and lonely. When the structure of kids school and activities fall away (only a few years away) I’m so sad to think what our life will be like. He’s not concerned in the least.

And the most upsetting part is that I’ve told him all these things so many times and he just acts like I’m being ridiculous.

This is SO easy to solve. Make your own plans, invite him. "Husband, I want to go to London the first week in October. Would you like to come with me? I've ask and if you want to come, my parents can take care of the kids. If you prefer to stay home with the kids Susie Q said she'd go with me." Then DO IT. Either you start going on trips with friends and have a great time without your husband, or eventually he'll join in. This goes for anything. You can include the kids. This can go for classes, exercise, whatever. Offer the option to join you, then DO IT ANYWAY without him. He will eventually join in. Or not, and in that case you always have somebody to care for the dog.

I tried that. Invited to a hike to a national park... during which he took off as he wanted to go to a restricted area (guarded off) and I refused. I ended up hiking alone. In a bear country. Of course it was not completely unexpected, as he had left me with little kids on trails on numerous occasions earlier in our marriage, when a 3-4-5 yo couldn't keep up with his pace. Just like OP husband, he hasn't planned a single meal, holiday, vacation, sports event, even his own family visits or anything one can think of. It's as if he's just waiting on the sidelines for life to happen.

I completely get you, OP. I don't think counseling will help as in the end, he doesn't want to change. He's happy he doesn't have to do anything and doesn't even have to think of anything. He's happy in his "marriage" with a wonderful wife and wonderful kids, who managed to grow up all by themselves in his opinion. This one poster here who thinks that in addition to our mental load, we should be WRITING LISTS of the mental load gives you an idea of how these men think.

DP

You planned a hike with children in bear country knowing your husband would likely leave you behind, because he did before?

You both sound unfit for children and marriage.

I don’t think keeping track of the kids’ activity schedules and when they need to be picked up is non-essential. The vacations might be, but the kids’ schedules are not.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Every meeting discuss if both feel good about division of mental, physical and financial loads and how to handle it all in a more efficient and empathetic manner.

Well, the problem here is that pretty much all women (and it's always women, isn't it) who complain about their "mental load" never seem to bother to take the time to actually monitor and write down what the distribution of value to the family or the couple from each person's efforts actually is.

That's because "mental load" is a completely subjective term that isn't quantifiable. How you feel emotionally isn't an objective measurement of your actual contributions to the family. Blurting out a random list of rather mundane tasks that a better organized person could handle with minimal friction and without breaking a sweat doesn't mean you are actually contributing as much as you think.

That's why this phony term had to be created.

It's also largely reflective of the woman's own preferences and obsessions which may not be objectively important at all.

Amen.

No, you don't need to obsess endlessly over what color cupcakes to buy for your five year olds birthday party to make sure they put you in the best light for your Instagram post

The mental load described here is the mental load of maintaining the appearances of a UMC lifestyle. This is non-essential and objectively not necessary; it does not count.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Your story also makes no sense. You're divorce yet claims he hasn't paid for anything substantial for the kids since you're separation. There should be a child support order is he paying support or not? If not you go to court or the child support office and they will garnish his wages for you. Your story doesn't add up so you must have been cheating on him right?

Lol, no. I make 3x the amount he does, so I pay HIM child support. When he, in his financial declaration to the courts, stated he pays $100 towards the kids pre divorce. He receives many multiples of that and yet refuses to do anything substantial for the kids.

And yes, there were many, many discussions and written lists re: mental load. He came from a traumatic background so who knows.

How is your life now? in same position...

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No abuse. No cheating that I know of. Just one person who is fine with the status quo (him) and one person who is not (me.) Late 40’s, marriage 20+ years, two teens.

Is there any point to marriage counseling? Or are my choices just accept it (I’ve tried!!) or leave?

What specifically are you unhappy about? What would you hope to change?
Its hard to answer your question without understanding whether or not you have valid reasons.

I want to make plans and do things. I want him to want to make some (not all) of those plans. I want him to want to do anything other than just work and sit at home doing nothing. He is in charge of cutting the grass and paying the bills that come due. He couldn’t tell you what days our kids have practice or games or where. He will call me on his way home from work and say “does anyone need to be picked up?” And “what were we thinking for dinner?” and to him this makes him an Involved Father. Never reads school emails, team emails, group chats. Never fills out forms or signs anyone up for anything. Never plans a vacation or a basic meal or an activity. His idea of a plan is “what should we watch on Netflix?” About once a week he will feign interest in me which is my cue that he wants to have s*x. And then he’ll be checked out again until the next time. It’s boring and lonely. When the structure of kids school and activities fall away (only a few years away) I’m so sad to think what our life will be like. He’s not concerned in the least.

And the most upsetting part is that I’ve told him all these things so many times and he just acts like I’m being ridiculous.

This is SO easy to solve. Make your own plans, invite him. "Husband, I want to go to London the first week in October. Would you like to come with me? I've ask and if you want to come, my parents can take care of the kids. If you prefer to stay home with the kids Susie Q said she'd go with me." Then DO IT. Either you start going on trips with friends and have a great time without your husband, or eventually he'll join in. This goes for anything. You can include the kids. This can go for classes, exercise, whatever. Offer the option to join you, then DO IT ANYWAY without him. He will eventually join in. Or not, and in that case you always have somebody to care for the dog.

I tried that. Invited to a hike to a national park... during which he took off as he wanted to go to a restricted area (guarded off) and I refused. I ended up hiking alone. In a bear country. Of course it was not completely unexpected, as he had left me with little kids on trails on numerous occasions earlier in our marriage, when a 3-4-5 yo couldn't keep up with his pace. Just like OP husband, he hasn't planned a single meal, holiday, vacation, sports event, even his own family visits or anything one can think of. It's as if he's just waiting on the sidelines for life to happen.

I completely get you, OP. I don't think counseling will help as in the end, he doesn't want to change. He's happy he doesn't have to do anything and doesn't even have to think of anything. He's happy in his "marriage" with a wonderful wife and wonderful kids, who managed to grow up all by themselves in his opinion. This one poster here who thinks that in addition to our mental load, we should be WRITING LISTS of the mental load gives you an idea of how these men think.

Anonymous wrote:Woof I left my husband and divorce was finalized this year. His Involved Husband act…I just couldn’t handle any more. His favorite phrase “I’m not a mind reader, you just need to ask me when you need help.” Meanwhile, laundry is overflowing, dishes in the sink, I’m getting everything done for the kids etc etc.
honestly we had the income to outsource a lot of that stuff but it killed the attraction so much it was hard to sleep with him.
Whether divorcing was a good idea- who knows. He’s a man who makes six figures and has yet to pay for anything substantial for the kids since our separation. Kind of proves my point. Major underperformer, major turnoff.
For the record we did counseling at least 3 times during our 15 year relationship (10 married). I don’t think it helped I think it just kicked the can down the road. I wish I had left earlier.

Let me guess, you did everything then you announced you did everything, then saw a bunch of Instagram posts about how you’re carrying everything while he just skips along.

After some more Instagram accounts thought you how you were able to drop your husband into a framework of a man who was weaponizing his incompetence?

You talk about his income but don’t mention your own, so maybe he didn’t talk about how he rolled around and bed all night wondering how he was going to provide for retirement for both of you, fund college, make sure you had a closet full of unused exercise clothes etc. The man you’re demonizing here likely thought you were a team until you decided that you weren’t.
You’re insecurity about your own place in the world allowed you to browbeat him for his contribution to the house which was substantial, he didn’t begrudge you taking huge amounts of time to do something a busy person could’ve knocked out in 20 minutes.

You’ll be fine someday and so will he but don’t pretend that you divorced him because you do everything and he just wouldn’t help, you decided to be a martyr instead of digging in and being part of a team. I bet you love telling everyone how hard it is to be a single mom.

Yes, I think our situation is unique. DH is the one who found and set up the counseling, not me, so he is very invested in the outcome. I think it's usually the other way around. Also, our counselor is very senior and absolutely fantastic. I've used other counselors individually and for work, and our marriage counselor is just so much better. And we don't have "irreconcilable differences" like infidelity. We have issues we both view as surmountable.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No abuse. No cheating that I know of. Just one person who is fine with the status quo (him) and one person who is not (me.) Late 40’s, marriage 20+ years, two teens.

Is there any point to marriage counseling? Or are my choices just accept it (I’ve tried!!) or leave?

What specifically are you unhappy about? What would you hope to change?
Its hard to answer your question without understanding whether or not you have valid reasons.

I want to make plans and do things. I want him to want to make some (not all) of those plans. I want him to want to do anything other than just work and sit at home doing nothing. He is in charge of cutting the grass and paying the bills that come due. He couldn’t tell you what days our kids have practice or games or where. He will call me on his way home from work and say “does anyone need to be picked up?” And “what were we thinking for dinner?” and to him this makes him an Involved Father. Never reads school emails, team emails, group chats. Never fills out forms or signs anyone up for anything. Never plans a vacation or a basic meal or an activity. His idea of a plan is “what should we watch on Netflix?” About once a week he will feign interest in me which is my cue that he wants to have s*x. And then he’ll be checked out again until the next time. It’s boring and lonely. When the structure of kids school and activities fall away (only a few years away) I’m so sad to think what our life will be like. He’s not concerned in the least.

And the most upsetting part is that I’ve told him all these things so many times and he just acts like I’m being ridiculous.

This is SO easy to solve. Make your own plans, invite him. "Husband, I want to go to London the first week in October. Would you like to come with me? I've ask and if you want to come, my parents can take care of the kids. If you prefer to stay home with the kids Susie Q said she'd go with me." Then DO IT. Either you start going on trips with friends and have a great time without your husband, or eventually he'll join in. This goes for anything. You can include the kids. This can go for classes, exercise, whatever. Offer the option to join you, then DO IT ANYWAY without him. He will eventually join in. Or not, and in that case you always have somebody to care for the dog.

Of course not. It's in the counselors interest to keep you coming to his/her office.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Your story also makes no sense. You're divorce yet claims he hasn't paid for anything substantial for the kids since you're separation. There should be a child support order is he paying support or not? If not you go to court or the child support office and they will garnish his wages for you. Your story doesn't add up so you must have been cheating on him right?

Lol, no. I make 3x the amount he does, so I pay HIM child support. When he, in his financial declaration to the courts, stated he pays $100 towards the kids pre divorce. He receives many multiples of that and yet refuses to do anything substantial for the kids.

And yes, there were many, many discussions and written lists re: mental load. He came from a traumatic background so who knows.

Also no, I was not cheating. So, that destroys your point there.

Anonymous wrote:Your story also makes no sense. You're divorce yet claims he hasn't paid for anything substantial for the kids since you're separation. There should be a child support order is he paying support or not? If not you go to court or the child support office and they will garnish his wages for you. Your story doesn't add up so you must have been cheating on him right?

Lol, no. I make 3x the amount he does, so I pay HIM child support. When he, in his financial declaration to the courts, stated he pays $100 towards the kids pre divorce. He receives many multiples of that and yet refuses to do anything substantial for the kids.

And yes, there were many, many discussions and written lists re: mental load. He came from a traumatic background so who knows.

Your story also makes no sense. You're divorce yet claims he hasn't paid for anything substantial for the kids since you're separation. There should be a child support order is he paying support or not? If not you go to court or the child support office and they will garnish his wages for you. Your story doesn't add up so you must have been cheating on him right?

Anonymous wrote:Woof I left my husband and divorce was finalized this year. His Involved Husband act…I just couldn’t handle any more. His favorite phrase “I’m not a mind reader, you just need to ask me when you need help.” Meanwhile, laundry is overflowing, dishes in the sink, I’m getting everything done for the kids etc etc.
honestly we had the income to outsource a lot of that stuff but it killed the attraction so much it was hard to sleep with him.
Whether divorcing was a good idea- who knows. He’s a man who makes six figures and has yet to pay for anything substantial for the kids since our separation. Kind of proves my point. Major underperformer, major turnoff.
For the record we did counseling at least 3 times during our 15 year relationship (10 married). I don’t think it helped I think it just kicked the can down the road. I wish I had left earlier.

Did you ever make a detailed objective honest list of all contributions made by both of you to the family, the time and energy required to.do them, and tried to quantify the value of what each of you were contributing?

Undoubtedly you do not. Because no one who ever makes these complaints ever does.

That would force you to actually have to explain and justify the time and energy and money you were spending on each item and him as well. You get zero credit for posting stuff on social media.

You then admit you didn't want to sleep with him because outsourcing mundane household tasks killed your desire to have sex with him. Yeah sure.

Even though you could easily afford it.

You decided to make yourself unhappy and the destroyed your own marriage over it.

I'm assuming you weren't cheating on him but nowadays that's fairly likely to have been the case and of course if so is all his fault as well.

Woof I left my husband and divorce was finalized this year. His Involved Husband act…I just couldn’t handle any more. His favorite phrase “I’m not a mind reader, you just need to ask me when you need help.” Meanwhile, laundry is overflowing, dishes in the sink, I’m getting everything done for the kids etc etc.
honestly we had the income to outsource a lot of that stuff but it killed the attraction so much it was hard to sleep with him.
Whether divorcing was a good idea- who knows. He’s a man who makes six figures and has yet to pay for anything substantial for the kids since our separation. Kind of proves my point. Major underperformer, major turnoff.
For the record we did counseling at least 3 times during our 15 year relationship (10 married). I don’t think it helped I think it just kicked the can down the road. I wish I had left earlier.