Anonymous wrote:This is America. The people enforcing “class” rules are not the heroes of the story. And we forgive all social trespass if it’s in pursuit of a romantic quest.

Didn’t you read Gatsby at these fancy schools?

It's funny that the people in here stuck on class are talking about being gossipy wenches as if that is somehow "classy" as they sneer at people who don't give them a second thought. They have nothing those other people want: no power, connections, or access and don't even get their respect. They're just miserable gossips with bad manners.

This is America. The people enforcing “class” rules are not the heroes of the story. And we forgive all social trespass if it’s in pursuit of a romantic quest.

Didn’t you read Gatsby at these fancy schools?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Read “Class” by Paul Fussell (or by Jilly Cooper for the UK equivalent). It’s now very dated, but the principles still hold up. It is a combination of money and social mindset, but honestly more social expectations than actual dollars. I can tell that I have jumped up a class as a result of actions taken over several generations - my extended family and I at this point are no longer in the same group, but it was a result more of education and environment than one family getting “richer”. I have no idea which branch of the family earns more. But I went to the Ivy League, work around the highest level of government, have very different expectations of my children in terms of expectations for them like advanced degrees vs trade school, value completely different forms of activity, entertainment (think the opera vs NASCAR), and so forth.

But don’t you agree that the real solution is for us to finally solve the stubborn problem of income inequality?

All work isn't equally valuable.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We don't have social classes here. Now you know.

Lol

Yes, we do.

While it’s not as clear cut as in other countries, the USA still has classes.

An overly simplistic way to explain:

-Blue collar vs white collar…but there’s a big gray area since many blue collar workers can amass a fortune and outpace many white collar professionals. To wit: my plumber lives in a nearly $2M home, owns vacation homes in his “home” country plus at the DE beaches, sends his kids to private school, and owns a portfolio of rentals that he flipped. If you saw him roll up in his truck, you’d never realize he’s so wealthy. (He told me he nets $1M/year.)

-By neighborhood

-By schools

-By education (college/advanced degrees)

-By country club(s)

-By status

Old money is a completely different animal. Truly old money status that has been sustained and grown over 4-5 generations is in its own class.

This can all be changed in one person’s lifetime. You can be born poor and end up wealthy.

It’s less of a class and more of a current designation, if you care about such things. And, you shouldn’t care about such things.

This. Class in the US is not really about class as much as wealth. And unlike other cultures, there is very little real influence that is exclusive to “old” money that can’t be had with new money.

While OPs post does reveal their immigrant mindset, I give them credit for being more honest about their downward social mobility than American born natives in the same position.

Eh, yes and no.

The millionaire plumber wouldn’t be considered in the same class as the guy who is 3rd generation at a top country club with kids who go to sailing camp and summer at the great-grandparents’ beach house on Martha’s Vineyard. Heck, even though I went to private school k-12, have an advanced degree and a well paying white collar career, I’m not even in the same class as the country club set who grew up with generational wealth.

Socio-economic cultural group, not class.

The old money country club set is just one socio economic cultural group. It has no cultural power above the self made plumber millionaire. And, of course, old money wealth pales in comparison to tech money these days.

Traditionally, a class society meant a hierarchy of classes that had power over the classes below, both political and cultural, and even morally. That simply does not happen in the US, especially today. Your self made plumber couldn't care less about joining old money clubs, and the same is true for Bezos or Zuckerberg. Which is why thinking in terms of class as a cultural force is misleading. You're just part of a socio-economic cultural group.

In other words…class.

Like it or not, people label and define themselves in myriad ways, and class is certainly one of them.

Class is more definitive than socioeconomics imho, noting the obvious differences between Chad the country club guy from generational wealth vs Joe the self-made millionaire plumber. Both have money…and Joe might even have more money…but everyone would say Chad and his family look more affluent/classy.

Nobody would say that because nobody cares that much. Poor people aren't classier because of refined manners because they wouldn't be in the spaces that people who would gossip about such things would see them. Joe doesn't care what Chad and his boring friends have to think about him. He's just living the high life.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Read “Class” by Paul Fussell (or by Jilly Cooper for the UK equivalent). It’s now very dated, but the principles still hold up. It is a combination of money and social mindset, but honestly more social expectations than actual dollars. I can tell that I have jumped up a class as a result of actions taken over several generations - my extended family and I at this point are no longer in the same group, but it was a result more of education and environment than one family getting “richer”. I have no idea which branch of the family earns more. But I went to the Ivy League, work around the highest level of government, have very different expectations of my children in terms of expectations for them like advanced degrees vs trade school, value completely different forms of activity, entertainment (think the opera vs NASCAR), and so forth.

But don’t you agree that the real solution is for us to finally solve the stubborn problem of income inequality?

Sadly, this administration has essentially shattered the infrastructure responsible for dramatic improvement on thag front.

I’ve been reading dcum for a million years, and one big takeaway is that many posters are obsessed with class as evidenced by countless threads.

While we don’t have an obvious caste system in the USA, there’s tons of data on how hard (impossible?) it is to break the cycle of poverty. Plus data on generational wealth. Wealth and security based on race. Single parent homes vs dual income. Education. Geography. Etc.

Many things divide people in the USA…including politics…and ICYMI, Dcumlandia has essentially decried the entire South as a backwoods, redneck, low class, MAGA wasteland…unless of course your kid gets into a certain “good” college in a red state in which case that state/area gets a free pass.

Optics are everything. Labels are everywhere. And if you aren’t sure where you stand, then you definitely aren’t the top dog. After all, unbridled confidence comes naturally to the Alpha dog.

Anonymous wrote:Read “Class” by Paul Fussell (or by Jilly Cooper for the UK equivalent). It’s now very dated, but the principles still hold up. It is a combination of money and social mindset, but honestly more social expectations than actual dollars. I can tell that I have jumped up a class as a result of actions taken over several generations - my extended family and I at this point are no longer in the same group, but it was a result more of education and environment than one family getting “richer”. I have no idea which branch of the family earns more. But I went to the Ivy League, work around the highest level of government, have very different expectations of my children in terms of expectations for them like advanced degrees vs trade school, value completely different forms of activity, entertainment (think the opera vs NASCAR), and so forth.

But don’t you agree that the real solution is for us to finally solve the stubborn problem of income inequality?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We don't have social classes here. Now you know.

Lol

Yes, we do.

While it’s not as clear cut as in other countries, the USA still has classes.

An overly simplistic way to explain:

-Blue collar vs white collar…but there’s a big gray area since many blue collar workers can amass a fortune and outpace many white collar professionals. To wit: my plumber lives in a nearly $2M home, owns vacation homes in his “home” country plus at the DE beaches, sends his kids to private school, and owns a portfolio of rentals that he flipped. If you saw him roll up in his truck, you’d never realize he’s so wealthy. (He told me he nets $1M/year.)

-By neighborhood

-By schools

-By education (college/advanced degrees)

-By country club(s)

-By status

Old money is a completely different animal. Truly old money status that has been sustained and grown over 4-5 generations is in its own class.

This can all be changed in one person’s lifetime. You can be born poor and end up wealthy.

It’s less of a class and more of a current designation, if you care about such things. And, you shouldn’t care about such things.

This. Class in the US is not really about class as much as wealth. And unlike other cultures, there is very little real influence that is exclusive to “old” money that can’t be had with new money.

While OPs post does reveal their immigrant mindset, I give them credit for being more honest about their downward social mobility than American born natives in the same position.

Eh, yes and no.

The millionaire plumber wouldn’t be considered in the same class as the guy who is 3rd generation at a top country club with kids who go to sailing camp and summer at the great-grandparents’ beach house on Martha’s Vineyard. Heck, even though I went to private school k-12, have an advanced degree and a well paying white collar career, I’m not even in the same class as the country club set who grew up with generational wealth.

Socio-economic cultural group, not class.

The old money country club set is just one socio economic cultural group. It has no cultural power above the self made plumber millionaire. And, of course, old money wealth pales in comparison to tech money these days.

Traditionally, a class society meant a hierarchy of classes that had power over the classes below, both political and cultural, and even morally. That simply does not happen in the US, especially today. Your self made plumber couldn't care less about joining old money clubs, and the same is true for Bezos or Zuckerberg. Which is why thinking in terms of class as a cultural force is misleading. You're just part of a socio-economic cultural group.

In other words…class.

Like it or not, people label and define themselves in myriad ways, and class is certainly one of them.

Class is more definitive than socioeconomics imho, noting the obvious differences between Chad the country club guy from generational wealth vs Joe the self-made millionaire plumber. Both have money…and Joe might even have more money…but everyone would say Chad and his family look more affluent/classy.

Anonymous wrote:Using myself as an example. Immigrant that has been in the States for 25 years now. When I was a kid growing up my father was in a profession that was pretty high status. We lived in beautiful homes in posh neighborhoods around the world and attending private school with children of government officials, CEOs, and the global elite.

However my father was self made and did not have any generational wealth. His chosen profession, although prestigious and elevated our family status and lifestyle, was not something like investment banking where you can amass a lot of wealth.

So when he retired...our lifestyle shifted dramatically. So here we are my siblings and I, literally with champagne tastes and beer budget if you will.

2 of them married rich so because of our lifestyle growing up, easily and smoothly integrated into the upper class families of their spouses.

The other two of us are UMC/MC professionals. We are pretty class conscious and class confused.

Wonder if anyone has been through something similar and has any advice.

As I understand it, you have run out of other people's money.

Anonymous wrote:Read “Class” by Paul Fussell (or by Jilly Cooper for the UK equivalent). It’s now very dated, but the principles still hold up. It is a combination of money and social mindset, but honestly more social expectations than actual dollars. I can tell that I have jumped up a class as a result of actions taken over several generations - my extended family and I at this point are no longer in the same group, but it was a result more of education and environment than one family getting “richer”. I have no idea which branch of the family earns more. But I went to the Ivy League, work around the highest level of government, have very different expectations of my children in terms of expectations for them like advanced degrees vs trade school, value completely different forms of activity, entertainment (think the opera vs NASCAR), and so forth.

I think you’re trying to claim you are at a higher class than some of your extended family because you went to an Ivy League school, you want your kids to be the same as you and you don’t like NASCAR?

I’m willing to bet other family members make more money than you or else you wouldn’t claim you don’t know. I too like opera, ballet and plays over nascar. Not living in the South I know nothing about car racing but I know about the arts having several family members professional artists. That doesn’t level up my class, that’s just what I like.

The oddest part of your thinking you jumped up a class is you expect your kids to get advanced degrees and not trade schools. Wealthy families secure with who they are accept their children for who they are and do their best to help them reach their potential.

My friend whose family is in the 1% has a daughter who went to hairdressing school. They are proud and are looking to buy her a salon and get her help starting up the business. My SIL graduated from Community College and my in-laws who are very wealthy and Ivy League educated accept their daughter and her limitations. It’s not unusual at all for kids not to be mini-me’s of their parents. These are the types with class.

Op, is this also you?

https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1046046.page

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We don't have social classes here. Now you know.

Don’t listen to this idiot who claims that there are no social classes in the USA. There most definitely are.

The answer for OP is to either make more money or start adapting to the experience of being lower class.

We don’t have social classes anymore than we have a caste system. We have the 1% group who are in their own little group but most of them have no class at all. We have wealthy people who like to group themselves together in expensive neighborhoods and pretend they’re better than everyone else. We have umc who live mixed lives, middle income and low income families.

We are nothing like India I that’s why when they come over here and have money they get confused that there’s no red line that keeps low income families away from them.

Read “Class” by Paul Fussell (or by Jilly Cooper for the UK equivalent). It’s now very dated, but the principles still hold up. It is a combination of money and social mindset, but honestly more social expectations than actual dollars. I can tell that I have jumped up a class as a result of actions taken over several generations - my extended family and I at this point are no longer in the same group, but it was a result more of education and environment than one family getting “richer”. I have no idea which branch of the family earns more. But I went to the Ivy League, work around the highest level of government, have very different expectations of my children in terms of expectations for them like advanced degrees vs trade school, value completely different forms of activity, entertainment (think the opera vs NASCAR), and so forth.

I don't know what class am I? I don't know.

Moved to US from overseas when I was 12 and all the social connections were left behind, family came with no money and what was in suitcase. But going back three generations immediate family were a law professor, a pediatric heart surgeon, a OB/GYN specializing in high-risk pregnancies, a pediatrician, a patent chemist. Then we moved from that overnight into poverty because post-USSR we had no money and even less when it was converted to USD. Now as an adult, my income is still very low, live in a tiny condo, dress poor because can't afford anything else. But I still very much value education, love books, spend a fortune on extracurriculars for the kids, There's very little in my checking and not much in savings. I buy artisanal foods and joke to husband that this is my chandelier now (to replace the one we left behind, because I've no place or money to hang the real thing here). What class is this?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We don't have social classes here. Now you know.

Lol

Yes, we do.

While it’s not as clear cut as in other countries, the USA still has classes.

An overly simplistic way to explain:

-Blue collar vs white collar…but there’s a big gray area since many blue collar workers can amass a fortune and outpace many white collar professionals. To wit: my plumber lives in a nearly $2M home, owns vacation homes in his “home” country plus at the DE beaches, sends his kids to private school, and owns a portfolio of rentals that he flipped. If you saw him roll up in his truck, you’d never realize he’s so wealthy. (He told me he nets $1M/year.)

-By neighborhood

-By schools

-By education (college/advanced degrees)

-By country club(s)

-By status

Old money is a completely different animal. Truly old money status that has been sustained and grown over 4-5 generations is in its own class.

This can all be changed in one person’s lifetime. You can be born poor and end up wealthy.

It’s less of a class and more of a current designation, if you care about such things. And, you shouldn’t care about such things.

This. Class in the US is not really about class as much as wealth. And unlike other cultures, there is very little real influence that is exclusive to “old” money that can’t be had with new money.

While OPs post does reveal their immigrant mindset, I give them credit for being more honest about their downward social mobility than American born natives in the same position.

Eh, yes and no.

The millionaire plumber wouldn’t be considered in the same class as the guy who is 3rd generation at a top country club with kids who go to sailing camp and summer at the great-grandparents’ beach house on Martha’s Vineyard. Heck, even though I went to private school k-12, have an advanced degree and a well paying white collar career, I’m not even in the same class as the country club set who grew up with generational wealth.

Socio-economic cultural group, not class.

The old money country club set is just one socio economic cultural group. It has no cultural power above the self made plumber millionaire. And, of course, old money wealth pales in comparison to tech money these days.

Traditionally, a class society meant a hierarchy of classes that had power over the classes below, both political and cultural, and even morally. That simply does not happen in the US, especially today. Your self made plumber couldn't care less about joining old money clubs, and the same is true for Bezos or Zuckerberg. Which is why thinking in terms of class as a cultural force is misleading. You're just part of a socio-economic cultural group.

Precisely.

Yes, Joe the plumber with a net worth of 50M will likely choose very different real estate, social groups, and education than Trey, the descendant of a real estate barron with the same amount of assets; however, there is almost no political, economic, and cultural opportunity that is available to Trey but not Joe.

And I'll go even further and argue the cliched "old money country club" scenario here is invalid. New money can buy whichever property in New England they want, send their kids to any sailing camp they want, and obtain entry to all but a teeny number of clubs.

The people posting in here such examples are simply ignorant of how embedded the class system is most other countries.

I agree with what you are saying but I think this shift is also true in other countries that were originally much more hierarchical. I’m from the UK and I think this is true there too. The “aristocracy” has no actual power and it is not aspirational for anyone. There are activities and events that people in that group go to (eg the royal enclosure at Ascot) but anyone with money can also go there.