Anonymous wrote:My child will be going to UVA. Got rejected from Ivies. What are we missing by not going to Ivies for pre-med. Outside of pre-med, do Ivies and other top schools create employers and other schools create employees

If you are going to get a professional grad degree doctors are the least likely to benefit from a prestigious undergraduate degree.

An MBA might get a reasonable amount of value from the prestige of their undergraduate but their MBA program will be more important. These are the guys who are most likely to casually mention that they went to Harvard for undergrad to go with their Penn MBA.

A lawyer is unlikely to ever have to mention her undergraduate institution, the law school will be important in early career and even mid career and will likely influence what opportunities are available to you in that time. Unless you went to HYPSM level undergrad but only if you went to a similarly impressive law school. People generally don't mention their undergrad in the professional setting. The paralegals are the mostly the ones that talk about their undergrad degree.

A doctor will not only be unlikely to benefit from the prestige of their undergrad degree, their residency is more important to the trajectory of their career than where they got their medical degree. And that residency will likely be fairly important in their early career opportunities but not much beyond that. Nobody is going to care if you went to UVA, GMU or Stanford for undergrad, you can't goof around but the name on the bachelors degree never comes up.

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Anonymous wrote:My child will be going to UVA. Got rejected from Ivies. What are we missing by not going to Ivies for pre-med. Outside of pre-med, do Ivies and other top schools create employers and other schools create employees

Colleges ranked by percentage of undergraduates who go on to attend medical school:

2 Harvard
3 Yale
5 Brown
13 Penn
16 Princeton
23 Cornell
46 Columbia
84 UVA

https://public.tableau.com/app/profile/adam.hearn4686/viz/TopFeederstoMedicalSchool/TopFeeders-Med5

UVA has much bigger enrollment than any of these. Cream rises to the top.

True--but you're taking the chance that your state school kid will be the cream. It's not always the case. Big pond, lots of fish.

Yes but most of the student body isn’t as competitive/gunner-like as the student body at the above schools. Especially if the UVA student could have gone to some of the above schools but chose UVA for other reasons like cost, culture, etc. I know it’s hard to believe, but lots of kids just don’t want to go to tiny colleges in the freezing north with no sports.

There's plenty of smart students at state schools like UVA these days. That your kid will rise to the top is no guarantee, and being mediocre at a state school is far different than being mediocre at an Ivy.

Well it worked out for us. And the money saved paid for 2.5 years of med school!

Great! But if your kid made their decision based on getting into medical school, they should have gone to Johns Hopkins which is #1 for % of students getting into medical school.

Or students can just do the best they can with the options they have. No one choice is right for everyone.

But then they’d have to live 4 years in Baltimore and attend JHU. And that was not remotely appealing to them. Cville was way more fun.

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Anonymous wrote:My child will be going to UVA. Got rejected from Ivies. What are we missing by not going to Ivies for pre-med. Outside of pre-med, do Ivies and other top schools create employers and other schools create employees

For pre med, your child is missing basically nothing.

Outside of pre med, ivies are feeders for certain elite companies in finance, consulting, and tech. Goldman Sachs, McKinsey, Google, etc. That is their main advantage. Ivies also attract type A personalities who go on to found companies, like Facebook and Microsoft. But they aren't magical founder factories - Gates and Zuckerberg notably dropped out. Your kid will get an amazing education and do great things in life from UVA.

Georgia Tech does well with MBB in Atlanta.

https://casecoach.com/b/what-type-of-candidates-make-it-to-mckinsey-bcg-and-bains-atlanta-offices/

My kids at an Ivy and the other a private T20, but if they planed to go to med school I would have had them go in-state to Tech or UVA. I was bio/pre-med at VT.

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Anonymous wrote:My child will be going to UVA. Got rejected from Ivies. What are we missing by not going to Ivies for pre-med. Outside of pre-med, do Ivies and other top schools create employers and other schools create employees

Colleges ranked by percentage of undergraduates who go on to attend medical school:

2 Harvard
3 Yale
5 Brown
13 Penn
16 Princeton
23 Cornell
46 Columbia
84 UVA

https://public.tableau.com/app/profile/adam.hearn4686/viz/TopFeederstoMedicalSchool/TopFeeders-Med5

If the denominator is the class size, this will penalize the large schools. Should be based on how many students declare themselves as premed and of these how many get into med school

I think most people care about whether their kid will have better odds. To calculate odds, you need to adjust for school size.

Only if you sincerely believe that 100% of undergrads at every school are premed.

No. But adjusting for school size is better than not adjusting for school size. Otherwise, you run the risk of determining that Ohio State and Arizona State are the best schools for pre-med. I am not aware of any analysis that starts with the percentage of undergraduates that are pre-med because that information is not available.

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Anonymous wrote:UVA is ivy in others eyes, even though may not be in tier 1.

Um, what?

This is why I don’t mind the pedants who insist, correctly, that the Ivy League is a sports conference. Using “Ivy” to refer to anything else rapidly leads to incoherent claims.

If the PP means that UVA is widely considered to be an excellent school, though not a top-tier elite school, they are correct. Using the term “Ivy” just muddies the water and makes communication impossible.

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Anonymous wrote:My child will be going to UVA. Got rejected from Ivies. What are we missing by not going to Ivies for pre-med. Outside of pre-med, do Ivies and other top schools create employers and other schools create employees

Colleges ranked by percentage of undergraduates who go on to attend medical school:

2 Harvard
3 Yale
5 Brown
13 Penn
16 Princeton
23 Cornell
46 Columbia
84 UVA

https://public.tableau.com/app/profile/adam.hearn4686/viz/TopFeederstoMedicalSchool/TopFeeders-Med5

UVA has much bigger enrollment than any of these. Cream rises to the top.

True--but you're taking the chance that your state school kid will be the cream. It's not always the case. Big pond, lots of fish.

Yes but most of the student body isn’t as competitive/gunner-like as the student body at the above schools. Especially if the UVA student could have gone to some of the above schools but chose UVA for other reasons like cost, culture, etc. I know it’s hard to believe, but lots of kids just don’t want to go to tiny colleges in the freezing north with no sports.

There's plenty of smart students at state schools like UVA these days. That your kid will rise to the top is no guarantee, and being mediocre at a state school is far different than being mediocre at an Ivy.

Well it worked out for us. And the money saved paid for 2.5 years of med school!

Great! But if your kid made their decision based on getting into medical school, they should have gone to Johns Hopkins which is #1 for % of students getting into medical school.

Or students can just do the best they can with the options they have. No one choice is right for everyone.

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Anonymous wrote:My child will be going to UVA. Got rejected from Ivies. What are we missing by not going to Ivies for pre-med. Outside of pre-med, do Ivies and other top schools create employers and other schools create employees

Colleges ranked by percentage of undergraduates who go on to attend medical school:

2 Harvard
3 Yale
5 Brown
13 Penn
16 Princeton
23 Cornell
46 Columbia
84 UVA

https://public.tableau.com/app/profile/adam.hearn4686/viz/TopFeederstoMedicalSchool/TopFeeders-Med5

UVA has much bigger enrollment than any of these. Cream rises to the top.

True--but you're taking the chance that your state school kid will be the cream. It's not always the case. Big pond, lots of fish.

Yes but most of the student body isn’t as competitive/gunner-like as the student body at the above schools. Especially if the UVA student could have gone to some of the above schools but chose UVA for other reasons like cost, culture, etc. I know it’s hard to believe, but lots of kids just don’t want to go to tiny colleges in the freezing north with no sports.

There's plenty of smart students at state schools like UVA these days. That your kid will rise to the top is no guarantee, and being mediocre at a state school is far different than being mediocre at an Ivy.

Well it worked out for us. And the money saved paid for 2.5 years of med school!

That's good, but you may be the exception. Only about 40% of those who apply to medical school are accepted by at least one. And that doesn't capture the fact that many get discouraged and never end up applying.

Anonymous wrote:UVA is ivy in others eyes, even though may not be in tier 1.

Um, what?

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Anonymous wrote:My child will be going to UVA. Got rejected from Ivies. What are we missing by not going to Ivies for pre-med. Outside of pre-med, do Ivies and other top schools create employers and other schools create employees

For pre med, your child is missing basically nothing.

Outside of pre med, ivies are feeders for certain elite companies in finance, consulting, and tech. Goldman Sachs, McKinsey, Google, etc. That is their main advantage. Ivies also attract type A personalities who go on to found companies, like Facebook and Microsoft. But they aren't magical founder factories - Gates and Zuckerberg notably dropped out. Your kid will get an amazing education and do great things in life from UVA.

lol both of these recruit heavily at your top Tech/Engineering schools

Yes, and UVA's undergraduate business program is a target for IB. Still easier to get recruited from an ivy for most of those fields.

Not Tech and Engineering

https://www.collegetransitions.com/dataverse/top-feeders-tech/
https://www.collegetransitions.com/dataverse/top-feeders-engineering/

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Anonymous wrote:My child will be going to UVA. Got rejected from Ivies. What are we missing by not going to Ivies for pre-med. Outside of pre-med, do Ivies and other top schools create employers and other schools create employees

For pre med, your child is missing basically nothing.

Outside of pre med, ivies are feeders for certain elite companies in finance, consulting, and tech. Goldman Sachs, McKinsey, Google, etc. That is their main advantage. Ivies also attract type A personalities who go on to found companies, like Facebook and Microsoft. But they aren't magical founder factories - Gates and Zuckerberg notably dropped out. Your kid will get an amazing education and do great things in life from UVA.

lol both of these recruit heavily at your top Tech/Engineering schools

Yes, and UVA's undergraduate business program is a target for IB. Still easier to get recruited from an ivy for most of those fields.

For Engineering and Tech?

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Anonymous wrote:My child will be going to UVA. Got rejected from Ivies. What are we missing by not going to Ivies for pre-med. Outside of pre-med, do Ivies and other top schools create employers and other schools create employees

Colleges ranked by percentage of undergraduates who go on to attend medical school:

2 Harvard
3 Yale
5 Brown
13 Penn
16 Princeton
23 Cornell
46 Columbia
84 UVA

https://public.tableau.com/app/profile/adam.hearn4686/viz/TopFeederstoMedicalSchool/TopFeeders-Med5

If the denominator is the class size, this will penalize the large schools. Should be based on how many students declare themselves as premed and of these how many get into med school

I think most people care about whether their kid will have better odds. To calculate odds, you need to adjust for school size.

Only if you sincerely believe that 100% of undergrads at every school are premed.

Since GPA is weighted heavily in med school applications.... and since UVA is not known for grade inflation (per my Chem major kid there)... just focus on your DC's course selections. Spend the time and map them out so they hit the req's they need in an efficient manner. Read Lou's list or whatever is the latest to review classes and professors. Your DC should work smart - not just hard - to maximize that GPA. In my experience, the orientation consultations kids get for 1st semester course selection were not very helpful. Reach out to any other current students you know and get involved in mapping out 4 yrs of pre-req's spaced nicely so you don't have too many killer semesters.

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Anonymous wrote:My child will be going to UVA. Got rejected from Ivies. What are we missing by not going to Ivies for pre-med. Outside of pre-med, do Ivies and other top schools create employers and other schools create employees

Colleges ranked by percentage of undergraduates who go on to attend medical school:

2 Harvard
3 Yale
5 Brown
13 Penn
16 Princeton
23 Cornell
46 Columbia
84 UVA

https://public.tableau.com/app/profile/adam.hearn4686/viz/TopFeederstoMedicalSchool/TopFeeders-Med5

If the denominator is the class size, this will penalize the large schools. Should be based on how many students declare themselves as premed and of these how many get into med school

I think most people care about whether their kid will have better odds. To calculate odds, you need to adjust for school size.

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Anonymous wrote:My child will be going to UVA. Got rejected from Ivies. What are we missing by not going to Ivies for pre-med. Outside of pre-med, do Ivies and other top schools create employers and other schools create employees

Colleges ranked by percentage of undergraduates who go on to attend medical school:

2 Harvard
3 Yale
5 Brown
13 Penn
16 Princeton
23 Cornell
46 Columbia
84 UVA

https://public.tableau.com/app/profile/adam.hearn4686/viz/TopFeederstoMedicalSchool/TopFeeders-Med5

UVA has much bigger enrollment than any of these. Cream rises to the top.

True--but you're taking the chance that your state school kid will be the cream. It's not always the case. Big pond, lots of fish.

Yes but most of the student body isn’t as competitive/gunner-like as the student body at the above schools. Especially if the UVA student could have gone to some of the above schools but chose UVA for other reasons like cost, culture, etc. I know it’s hard to believe, but lots of kids just don’t want to go to tiny colleges in the freezing north with no sports.

There's plenty of smart students at state schools like UVA these days. That your kid will rise to the top is no guarantee, and being mediocre at a state school is far different than being mediocre at an Ivy.

Well it worked out for us. And the money saved paid for 2.5 years of med school!