Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We have very similar fathers, OP. I’m his only biological child, daughter of his second marriage of three, and he has a wake of cut off relationships including his mother, his sister, multiple cousins, and me. It was one of those cousins who helped me accept this is who he is. He is a selfish man who is capable of inflicting great damage and feels no sense of responsibility. He’s never going to change. He’s been doing this his whole life.

That said, I would go, but I wouldn’t bring my family unless they wanted to come and you’re confident they’ll be treated well. Why? Well, here is how things have ended up for my father. He has Alzheimer’s. His wife spent years facilitating his isolation (he said yes to that), and now he’s stuck away in a facility with no one to watch over him.

It’s sad, but I can say I never gave him a reason. I was always respectful and I always left the door open. I will always love him but I am free from guilt and resentment. At some point I will learn that he’s died alone. I know that it will hurt but I also know I have no control and therefore no responsibility.

OP here. Thank you for sharing this. I really appreciate it. I take inspiration in your ability to find peace in this difficult situation. Hugs.

Anonymous wrote:Just go to his wedding, smile, and move on.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thank you all for your advice, really. It's incredibly helpful, including the very on point poster who suggested I needed some help to work through my approach to this relationship. You are right and me tearing up reading your post underscored that!

I should have added that the wedding is a three hour flight away. My dad would like us to stay with him, but I would not want that. If we go, we need to have our own space. So we would need to get flights and a hotel and car (no local mass transport and we have a wheelchair user in our family, so can't easily have someone pick us up in a regular car). It is possible I go solo and leave the family at home, but still entails flight and hotel and possibly car.

My other hang up is that my dad is someone who is always testing boundaries. So I worry it won't be enough for us to show up, he'll then have to push further, ie telling my kids to call his wife grandma or insisting I be a bridesmaid or something equally ridiculous. So even if I go in with the intention of smiling, celebrating, moving on, I will be on guard for him to push for more. But perhaps this just reinforces the need to spend a bit of time in therapy on all of this.

Thank you again for all the thoughts and welcome further!

I hate this about DCUM more than anything. Why the constant burying of the lead?

It is really irritating.

OP here. I really did not mean to bury the lede. Maybe it sounds absurd to you, but this thread has been incredibly enlightening to me (thank you again to everyone!). If you haven't had this kind of complicated relationship with someone you love, maybe it's hard to understand, but I really did think that I put the most important information in my first post--gosh, look at the book I wrote, lol. It was only in reflecting on the helpful replies that I realized that these two additional dimensions were shaping how I felt about attending.

Are you a journalist, OP?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thank you all for your advice, really. It's incredibly helpful, including the very on point poster who suggested I needed some help to work through my approach to this relationship. You are right and me tearing up reading your post underscored that!

I should have added that the wedding is a three hour flight away. My dad would like us to stay with him, but I would not want that. If we go, we need to have our own space. So we would need to get flights and a hotel and car (no local mass transport and we have a wheelchair user in our family, so can't easily have someone pick us up in a regular car). It is possible I go solo and leave the family at home, but still entails flight and hotel and possibly car.

My other hang up is that my dad is someone who is always testing boundaries. So I worry it won't be enough for us to show up, he'll then have to push further, ie telling my kids to call his wife grandma or insisting I be a bridesmaid or something equally ridiculous. So even if I go in with the intention of smiling, celebrating, moving on, I will be on guard for him to push for more. But perhaps this just reinforces the need to spend a bit of time in therapy on all of this.

Thank you again for all the thoughts and welcome further!

I hate this about DCUM more than anything. Why the constant burying of the lead?

It is really irritating.

OP here. I really did not mean to bury the lede. Maybe it sounds absurd to you, but this thread has been incredibly enlightening to me (thank you again to everyone!). If you haven't had this kind of complicated relationship with someone you love, maybe it's hard to understand, but I really did think that I put the most important information in my first post--gosh, look at the book I wrote, lol. It was only in reflecting on the helpful replies that I realized that these two additional dimensions were shaping how I felt about attending.

Are you a journalist, OP?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My dad just told me that he is getting married for the third time next month. He and I have a difficult relationship and have just reestablished contact after one of multiple periods without contact. Although we have friendly chats and he recently came to visit, we have not had any deep conversations about our last period of no contact, so it is all still very tentative.

I have not initiated any conversations because when I have tried in the past to explain my perspective, he will say either that he doesn't remember key events or they did not happen as I recalled. There has never been space for my voice and honestly it has made me feel horrible. I don't see any signs to expect something different this time, but it means that core issues in our relationship remain unresolved. It's like walking on eggshells.

Our past has been punctured by these periods of no contact that all seem to relate to his relationships. The first time, when he was mad I would not testify against my mom during their divorce, the second when his girlfriend made up a lie about my then-fiance/now-husband which he believed and which generated deep distrust for my now-husband, the third on the cusp of a visit to him where he yelled at me over the phone about being nice to his partner. It's all much messier than this of course, but I want to give at least a little background that essentially my relationship with my father always feels like it has a totally unnecessary tie to his relationships, something that I really do not like.

Now he is marrying again. I have met her several times, but have not wanted to get too close, given past experiences. But recently (and on my birthday no less), my dad called me crying about how they are constantly fighting, so I'm not sure it's a super stable situation.

My brother has been no contact with my dad for 10 years and my dad is also no contact with my mom, his second wife, and at any given point at least 1-2 of his siblings. So there is a wider pattern here (sorry if I seem defensive, but I know how some DCUM threads can go!).

It all seems like so much drama. I hate the idea of going and pretending any of this makes sense or that we are a big happy family. It will make me absolutely crazy. But I know if I do not go, it will be a huge deal and my dad will never get over it and it will permanently close the door to a real reconciliation, which I guess I am still hopeful for...

Any advice?

Are you Gen Z?

No, I'm a millennial.

Do you have a good therapist? Someone who challenges you rather than just validates?

Because it's statements like this that give me pause: "when I have tried in the past to explain my perspective, he will say either that he doesn't remember key events or they did not happen as I recalled. There has never been space for my voice and honestly it has made me feel horrible."

I have a hunch he's tried to share is version of events and you have rejected them because they don't just reflexively validate your feelings, without ever considering that maybe you're wrong or that your feelings aren't valid. And then you continue to blame him for awkwardness in your relationship, simply because your attempt to "clear the air" didn't play out according to script in your head. And so he walks on eggshells around YOU.

I'm not saying he's perfect -- obviously he sucks at intimate relationships. But you really seem to have cast yourself as the victim here, which is a somewhat familiar phenomenon with Gen Z and some millennials.

In any case, I'd err on the side of going. Why would you not? To make a point? To be hurtful? What would be the point of that or the value in that? You can't unring that bell.

Where did this advice come from, Boomer Gaslighting 101? Good grief, just horrible on all fronts. She knows what she experienced and how it made her feel. The boomers were raised with a mantra that silence is good, it’s ugly to confront things and elders get to gaslight and rewrite history. After all good girls just smile sweetly and go along dear. Gen X doesn’t buy it but they also don’t bother confronting it. GenZ and millennials confront it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thank you all for your advice, really. It's incredibly helpful, including the very on point poster who suggested I needed some help to work through my approach to this relationship. You are right and me tearing up reading your post underscored that!

I should have added that the wedding is a three hour flight away. My dad would like us to stay with him, but I would not want that. If we go, we need to have our own space. So we would need to get flights and a hotel and car (no local mass transport and we have a wheelchair user in our family, so can't easily have someone pick us up in a regular car). It is possible I go solo and leave the family at home, but still entails flight and hotel and possibly car.

My other hang up is that my dad is someone who is always testing boundaries. So I worry it won't be enough for us to show up, he'll then have to push further, ie telling my kids to call his wife grandma or insisting I be a bridesmaid or something equally ridiculous. So even if I go in with the intention of smiling, celebrating, moving on, I will be on guard for him to push for more. But perhaps this just reinforces the need to spend a bit of time in therapy on all of this.

Thank you again for all the thoughts and welcome further!

I hate this about DCUM more than anything. Why the constant burying of the lead?

It is really irritating.

OP here. I really did not mean to bury the lede. Maybe it sounds absurd to you, but this thread has been incredibly enlightening to me (thank you again to everyone!). If you haven't had this kind of complicated relationship with someone you love, maybe it's hard to understand, but I really did think that I put the most important information in my first post--gosh, look at the book I wrote, lol. It was only in reflecting on the helpful replies that I realized that these two additional dimensions were shaping how I felt about attending.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My dad just told me that he is getting married for the third time next month. He and I have a difficult relationship and have just reestablished contact after one of multiple periods without contact. Although we have friendly chats and he recently came to visit, we have not had any deep conversations about our last period of no contact, so it is all still very tentative.

I have not initiated any conversations because when I have tried in the past to explain my perspective, he will say either that he doesn't remember key events or they did not happen as I recalled. There has never been space for my voice and honestly it has made me feel horrible. I don't see any signs to expect something different this time, but it means that core issues in our relationship remain unresolved. It's like walking on eggshells.

Our past has been punctured by these periods of no contact that all seem to relate to his relationships. The first time, when he was mad I would not testify against my mom during their divorce, the second when his girlfriend made up a lie about my then-fiance/now-husband which he believed and which generated deep distrust for my now-husband, the third on the cusp of a visit to him where he yelled at me over the phone about being nice to his partner. It's all much messier than this of course, but I want to give at least a little background that essentially my relationship with my father always feels like it has a totally unnecessary tie to his relationships, something that I really do not like.

Now he is marrying again. I have met her several times, but have not wanted to get too close, given past experiences. But recently (and on my birthday no less), my dad called me crying about how they are constantly fighting, so I'm not sure it's a super stable situation.

My brother has been no contact with my dad for 10 years and my dad is also no contact with my mom, his second wife, and at any given point at least 1-2 of his siblings. So there is a wider pattern here (sorry if I seem defensive, but I know how some DCUM threads can go!).

It all seems like so much drama. I hate the idea of going and pretending any of this makes sense or that we are a big happy family. It will make me absolutely crazy. But I know if I do not go, it will be a huge deal and my dad will never get over it and it will permanently close the door to a real reconciliation, which I guess I am still hopeful for...

Any advice?

Are you Gen Z?

No, I'm a millennial.

Do you have a good therapist? Someone who challenges you rather than just validates?

Because it's statements like this that give me pause: "when I have tried in the past to explain my perspective, he will say either that he doesn't remember key events or they did not happen as I recalled. There has never been space for my voice and honestly it has made me feel horrible."

I have a hunch he's tried to share is version of events and you have rejected them because they don't just reflexively validate your feelings, without ever considering that maybe you're wrong or that your feelings aren't valid. And then you continue to blame him for awkwardness in your relationship, simply because your attempt to "clear the air" didn't play out according to script in your head. And so he walks on eggshells around YOU.

I'm not saying he's perfect -- obviously he sucks at intimate relationships. But you really seem to have cast yourself as the victim here, which is a somewhat familiar phenomenon with Gen Z and some millennials.

In any case, I'd err on the side of going. Why would you not? To make a point? To be hurtful? What would be the point of that or the value in that? You can't unring that bell.

A “good therapist “ might note that your “hunch” is an odd one that seems to push your own projections about the dad and his “version of events” and your own stereotypes about generations. Why?

Anonymous wrote:We have very similar fathers, OP. I’m his only biological child, daughter of his second marriage of three, and he has a wake of cut off relationships including his mother, his sister, multiple cousins, and me. It was one of those cousins who helped me accept this is who he is. He is a selfish man who is capable of inflicting great damage and feels no sense of responsibility. He’s never going to change. He’s been doing this his whole life.

That said, I would go, but I wouldn’t bring my family unless they wanted to come and you’re confident they’ll be treated well. Why? Well, here is how things have ended up for my father. He has Alzheimer’s. His wife spent years facilitating his isolation (he said yes to that), and now he’s stuck away in a facility with no one to watch over him.

It’s sad, but I can say I never gave him a reason. I was always respectful and I always left the door open. I will always love him but I am free from guilt and resentment. At some point I will learn that he’s died alone. I know that it will hurt but I also know I have no control and therefore no responsibility.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thank you all for your advice, really. It's incredibly helpful, including the very on point poster who suggested I needed some help to work through my approach to this relationship. You are right and me tearing up reading your post underscored that!

I should have added that the wedding is a three hour flight away. My dad would like us to stay with him, but I would not want that. If we go, we need to have our own space. So we would need to get flights and a hotel and car (no local mass transport and we have a wheelchair user in our family, so can't easily have someone pick us up in a regular car). It is possible I go solo and leave the family at home, but still entails flight and hotel and possibly car.

My other hang up is that my dad is someone who is always testing boundaries. So I worry it won't be enough for us to show up, he'll then have to push further, ie telling my kids to call his wife grandma or insisting I be a bridesmaid or something equally ridiculous. So even if I go in with the intention of smiling, celebrating, moving on, I will be on guard for him to push for more. But perhaps this just reinforces the need to spend a bit of time in therapy on all of this.

Thank you again for all the thoughts and welcome further!

I hate this about DCUM more than anything. Why the constant burying of the lead?

It is really irritating.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So he re-established contact to play a big happy family for his 3rd wedding?

OP here. Yes, I didn't raise this initially but it does feel like the timing is more than a coincidence.

Anonymous wrote:If you want to keep the relationship with him intact, I’d go. Go by yourself, be polite, and keep things cordial. And the part about “pretending to be one happy family” made me laugh a little; no one at a wedding thinks that just because everyone showed up, the family is perfect.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My dad just told me that he is getting married for the third time next month. He and I have a difficult relationship and have just reestablished contact after one of multiple periods without contact. Although we have friendly chats and he recently came to visit, we have not had any deep conversations about our last period of no contact, so it is all still very tentative.

I have not initiated any conversations because when I have tried in the past to explain my perspective, he will say either that he doesn't remember key events or they did not happen as I recalled. There has never been space for my voice and honestly it has made me feel horrible. I don't see any signs to expect something different this time, but it means that core issues in our relationship remain unresolved. It's like walking on eggshells.

Our past has been punctured by these periods of no contact that all seem to relate to his relationships. The first time, when he was mad I would not testify against my mom during their divorce, the second when his girlfriend made up a lie about my then-fiance/now-husband which he believed and which generated deep distrust for my now-husband, the third on the cusp of a visit to him where he yelled at me over the phone about being nice to his partner. It's all much messier than this of course, but I want to give at least a little background that essentially my relationship with my father always feels like it has a totally unnecessary tie to his relationships, something that I really do not like.

Now he is marrying again. I have met her several times, but have not wanted to get too close, given past experiences. But recently (and on my birthday no less), my dad called me crying about how they are constantly fighting, so I'm not sure it's a super stable situation.

My brother has been no contact with my dad for 10 years and my dad is also no contact with my mom, his second wife, and at any given point at least 1-2 of his siblings. So there is a wider pattern here (sorry if I seem defensive, but I know how some DCUM threads can go!).

It all seems like so much drama. I hate the idea of going and pretending any of this makes sense or that we are a big happy family. It will make me absolutely crazy. But I know if I do not go, it will be a huge deal and my dad will never get over it and it will permanently close the door to a real reconciliation, which I guess I am still hopeful for...

Any advice?

Are you Gen Z?

No, I'm a millennial.

Do you have a good therapist? Someone who challenges you rather than just validates?

Because it's statements like this that give me pause: "when I have tried in the past to explain my perspective, he will say either that he doesn't remember key events or they did not happen as I recalled. There has never been space for my voice and honestly it has made me feel horrible."

I have a hunch he's tried to share is version of events and you have rejected them because they don't just reflexively validate your feelings, without ever considering that maybe you're wrong or that your feelings aren't valid. And then you continue to blame him for awkwardness in your relationship, simply because your attempt to "clear the air" didn't play out according to script in your head. And so he walks on eggshells around YOU.

I'm not saying he's perfect -- obviously he sucks at intimate relationships. But you really seem to have cast yourself as the victim here, which is a somewhat familiar phenomenon with Gen Z and some millennials.

In any case, I'd err on the side of going. Why would you not? To make a point? To be hurtful? What would be the point of that or the value in that? You can't unring that bell.

Anonymous wrote:In your place, I’d still go, probably alone — unless you feel you’d need support. As to your Dad’s drama and pushing boundaries— whatever you do will likely never be “enough”. I hope that understanding this — really understanding this — will allow you experience the freedom to make the decisions that are best for you. You don’t have to get pulled into that — if only because if nothing you do will be “enough,” then acting to suit yourself and your own needs will mean that at least one of you (Yes: YOU OP) will be reasonably happy. )

No need to pull kids into this, or anyone else, unless you anticipate truly needing adult support.

Wishing you well with this OP!

Anonymous wrote:So he re-established contact to play a big happy family for his 3rd wedding?