Anonymous wrote:Why aren’t you teaching them the dialects spoken by their grandparents?

Came here to ask this. It's sort of like if one set of your grandparents spoke a Mexican indigenous language and a moderate amount of Spanish, but instead of you learning their indigenous language you took Spanish classes. It's adjacent to your heritage, but it's not exactly your heritage.

Op here. My first language is cantonese, and it is spoken in the society and taught in public school. 70 percent of my public MS/HS school curriculum are taught in English, and that's how I learn English. I was introduced Mandarin as a class in MS for a few years, and that's how I learn Mandarin. I also take French and japanese as foreign languages as extra curriculum activities because our public school has a French teacher and a japanese teacher. I pick up one chinese dielect through my parents but they never teach me. I just sort it out by their conversations. It is quite common for a chinese to know a few languages.

Anonymous wrote:Op here. I and DH do speak Mandarin Chinese if one do not judge our pronunciation and tone. Native chinese can tell that our Mandarin Chinese is not our first language, but it is good enough that they understand what we speak.

My parents, my in-laws and DH all expect me to be the one teaching our kids Mandarin Chinese because I am the mom and I can read and write even though my pronunciation in Mandarin Chinese is worse than my DH. It is a lot of work on me. I have tried to teach my kids simple chinese vocabularies, they forgot. I have tried to speak to them in Mandarin Chinese, they completely ignore me because they do not understand. My kids seem quite stupid when it comes to forenign language learning part. I do not have any strategies to teach them at home unless someone can share. They do not have the passion to learn it, so the only way is me pushing and forcing them to learn it.

A couple of thoughts:

-If your pronunciation and intonation is not good, it's not particularly helpful for them to hear you speak. It could even hurt. My parents spoke to me in their native (European) language as a child. I unfortunately did not retain it, but one thing I have is excellent pronunciation, I can roll my Rs and don't say things the American way, because I was exposed to the correct way as a child. It would probably be more helpful to your kids to just listen to movies and songs where people are speaking the language correctly.

-How did you learn Mandarin? Did your parents teach you? I am guessing not since they don't speak it, so how can they expect you to teach it to your kids? You're not a native speaker, but even if you were, you're not a language teacher either. It's ok to push back on an unreasonable request. Speaking to kids once in a while in your 3rd or 4th language that you don't pronounce properly or can't read and write in (your husband) is not realistic.

-Please don't call your kids stupid. This is counterintuitive. A lot of people (like me) have anxiety about speaking foreign languages. I cannot get the words out because I am second guessing what I'm saying, if I've conjugated the words correctly, if there's some grammatical exception I forgot, etc. As a result my speaking is very slow and stilted, and that makes me want to speak less and less. I realize Mandarin is different but I imagine psychologically it's the same. If you make your kids feel stupid, they will not utter one word because they don't want to be judged. They may understand more than you think, but they would rather just shut down and not participate.

You sound ridiculous OP. Go away

Anonymous wrote:Op here. I and DH do speak Mandarin Chinese if one do not judge our pronunciation and tone. Native chinese can tell that our Mandarin Chinese is not our first language, but it is good enough that they understand what we speak.

My parents, my in-laws and DH all expect me to be the one teaching our kids Mandarin Chinese because I am the mom and I can read and write even though my pronunciation in Mandarin Chinese is worse than my DH. It is a lot of work on me. I have tried to teach my kids simple chinese vocabularies, they forgot. I have tried to speak to them in Mandarin Chinese, they completely ignore me because they do not understand. My kids seem quite stupid when it comes to forenign language learning part. I do not have any strategies to teach them at home unless someone can share. They do not have the passion to learn it, so the only way is me pushing and forcing them to learn it.

with this attitude towards own kids I can see why you don’t want to put effort. How are your kids supposed to learn if you don’t put effort? Both of you & dh, in laws? You want them to learn mandarin, then you all switch to speaking it to the kids. I may have missed if you speak English to the kids or one of your other languages? If you’re already speaking a different non-English language with the kids, then it makes it even harder cause you’re trying to teach them a third language. If so, then focus on 1 non-English language and build up that.

Op here. I and DH do speak Mandarin Chinese if one do not judge our pronunciation and tone. Native chinese can tell that our Mandarin Chinese is not our first language, but it is good enough that they understand what we speak.

My parents, my in-laws and DH all expect me to be the one teaching our kids Mandarin Chinese because I am the mom and I can read and write even though my pronunciation in Mandarin Chinese is worse than my DH. It is a lot of work on me. I have tried to teach my kids simple chinese vocabularies, they forgot. I have tried to speak to them in Mandarin Chinese, they completely ignore me because they do not understand. My kids seem quite stupid when it comes to forenign language learning part. I do not have any strategies to teach them at home unless someone can share. They do not have the passion to learn it, so the only way is me pushing and forcing them to learn it.

We are white so it may be a bit different but I gave up on the heritage language and I think DS will be missing out as part of family and he won’t have a community he would otherwise probably (maybe) have.
If your kids aren’t too resistant try to teach them, but if it’s a battle and you need your sanity then it is what it is.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP,

DCUM is not the right place to have this discussion. Most posters never force their kids to do anything, and have an unhealthy fixation on sports.

Being proficient in Mandarin Chinese will be an asset for our children's generation. It will be easier if they learn as kids, and not as adults. Please do this for your children. When they're teens, they will understand the gift they've been given. Young kids never do, and yes, you will need to drag them to weekend school kicking and screaming. Too bad. There is a payoff at the end, and it's major. Even for college admissions, they will have an advantage.

We're not of Chinese ancestry, but I dragged my kids kicking and screaming to their native language school for years. As teens, they went willingly. They picked a different language at school, which meant that for college admissions, they had to all intents and purposes, two foreign languages, studied to AP level (one native, one non-native).

Our world is becoming more and more connected and China is the next Superpower. It's a no-brainer.

My kids have been attending heritage language school since pre-k and I know the effort and the sacrifice that goes into it. I also know the heritage school on its own is nowhere enough without reading books, watching movies, speaking, and visiting home country for “immersion experience”.

Given what op mentioned in her post, OP’s kids will not become proficient simply because they won’t have chance to practice the language. Not even at home, which is already minimal given they spend at least 40 hours at school.

There are other options, like doing Duolingo or taking it in highschool, that will end up with same result for op given op’s specific circumstances.

The only benefit I see for op, is for kids to get to know their community, but there maybe other options for that for mandarin speakers outside of heritage language school.

The parents speak the language! Plenty of kids go to school all day and come home to a different language. Duolingo will not work as the primary source.

The op and her husband speak it 10% of the time and 90% English. So the kids will be coming home after school to more English.

They know how to speak the language. They need to do their part by speaking Mandarin 90% of the time instead

I was in a similar situation with a similarly difficult language but with much less media available in that language. Plus my American DH doesn’t speak this language. I dragged my kids to weekend lessons their entire childhoods. There were occasional times they resented it but it became such a non negotiable part of their growing up it became a routine for them. We did not give up other activities for this, it was never more than two hours a week. They didn’t learn the language perfectly but they have a strong basis. One of them is now a freshman in college and has voluntarily (and surprisingly) signed up for 5x week classes in this language. I think she sees it as a way to set herself apart. My other child is a sophomore in college and hasn’t taken the classes but he looked into it and tried to make it happen, it just didn’t work out. So he may pick it up again in the future. I don’t speak the language with them because I don’t know it very well, but I don’t regret the effort. I would have been very upset if I had just given up.

Let it go OP. Enjoy your children and family. Acquiring and retaining a foreign language takes intense work and constant effort. It’s not worth giving up your weekends and family life.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why not try Duolingo if they have nanderin Chinese available? It's fun, free and and can be done anywhere and anytime?

It is most certainly not fun for kids.

That's an opinion. My kid has fun on it.

Because they weird AF

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op here. My first language is cantonese, and it is more HARDER to learn compared to Mandarin Chinese. I grew up learning it without using phonics, but just pure memorization word by word onto my brain. What you read is not what you speak, and that is the hardest part of learning cantonese which I cannot even know how to explain.

First language for my parents are not even Cantonese or Mandarin Chinese. First language for my in-laws are also not Cantonese or Mandarin Chinese. First language for my DH is English, and he does not speak or understand Cantonese. My kids find it hard to learn Mandarin Chinese, and there is no way that they can learn Cantonese.

Sort-of Canto mom here. I feel your agony, OP. I’m a white mom that married into the culture and my reluctantly Cantonese-understanding-but-not-speaking DH refused to help with Cantonese school. The grandparents encouraged mandarin which also didn’t help. My DD was desperate to learn Cantonese so for years she did online tutoring, which was awful because I was learning it a few days ahead of her and DH didn’t want to help. It got really epic when we added a reading and writing class. Eventually she got to the point where I couldn’t help her keep up and DH forced her to quit.

DD speaks frequently of regretting quitting and it breaks my heart. I love the language and how humorous it can be but it’s really tough to learn outside of a few communities in the US.

It’s really hard to be the non-speaking mom trying to transmit or sustain a heritage language. In my experience the Cantonese community expects moms to carry the culture and heritage and can gatekeep or even be outright rude to children and mothers who don’t speak it. And my friends and I have noticed a pattern of parents of 1st gen boys “letting” the boys let the language go but expecting their daughters to carry it on, which adds a messy gender dynamic and a lot of resentment and hard feelings on all sides.

PP, your daughter would be an excellent candidate for a study abroad program. Encourage her to consider it someday.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why not try Duolingo if they have nanderin Chinese available? It's fun, free and and can be done anywhere and anytime?

It is most certainly not fun for kids.

That's an opinion. My kid has fun on it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP,

DCUM is not the right place to have this discussion. Most posters never force their kids to do anything, and have an unhealthy fixation on sports.

Being proficient in Mandarin Chinese will be an asset for our children's generation. It will be easier if they learn as kids, and not as adults. Please do this for your children. When they're teens, they will understand the gift they've been given. Young kids never do, and yes, you will need to drag them to weekend school kicking and screaming. Too bad. There is a payoff at the end, and it's major. Even for college admissions, they will have an advantage.

We're not of Chinese ancestry, but I dragged my kids kicking and screaming to their native language school for years. As teens, they went willingly. They picked a different language at school, which meant that for college admissions, they had to all intents and purposes, two foreign languages, studied to AP level (one native, one non-native).

Our world is becoming more and more connected and China is the next Superpower. It's a no-brainer.

Hello 1992

Lol, that reminds me that in 1989 we were soooo worried about Japan. I actually knew kids studying Japanese then.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP,

DCUM is not the right place to have this discussion. Most posters never force their kids to do anything, and have an unhealthy fixation on sports.

Being proficient in Mandarin Chinese will be an asset for our children's generation. It will be easier if they learn as kids, and not as adults. Please do this for your children. When they're teens, they will understand the gift they've been given. Young kids never do, and yes, you will need to drag them to weekend school kicking and screaming. Too bad. There is a payoff at the end, and it's major. Even for college admissions, they will have an advantage.

We're not of Chinese ancestry, but I dragged my kids kicking and screaming to their native language school for years. As teens, they went willingly. They picked a different language at school, which meant that for college admissions, they had to all intents and purposes, two foreign languages, studied to AP level (one native, one non-native).

Our world is becoming more and more connected and China is the next Superpower. It's a no-brainer.

My kids have been attending heritage language school since pre-k and I know the effort and the sacrifice that goes into it. I also know the heritage school on its own is nowhere enough without reading books, watching movies, speaking, and visiting home country for “immersion experience”.

Given what op mentioned in her post, OP’s kids will not become proficient simply because they won’t have chance to practice the language. Not even at home, which is already minimal given they spend at least 40 hours at school.

There are other options, like doing Duolingo or taking it in highschool, that will end up with same result for op given op’s specific circumstances.

The only benefit I see for op, is for kids to get to know their community, but there maybe other options for that for mandarin speakers outside of heritage language school.

The parents speak the language! Plenty of kids go to school all day and come home to a different language. Duolingo will not work as the primary source.

The op and her husband speak it 10% of the time and 90% English. So the kids will be coming home after school to more English.