Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Reframing (not OP) - which DCPS ES have a foreign language as a special, and for what grades? I learned to ask this at open houses last year, but only after I’d already been to a bunch. I stupidly assumed all ES would have at least some foreign language. They don’t! It seems that Title 1 schools sometimes opt to use their extra funding for foreign language, but some don’t. At wealthy schools it’s PTA funded, but some wealthy schools (Stoddert) don’t have any foreign language. Mann has Spanish that is PTA funded but only through 2nd (?) grade. SWS has French- is that in every grade?

Maury used to have a Spanish special but got rid of it a couple years ago. (Didn’t replace it with anything—always just cuts, cuts, cuts.) It didn’t do a lot for my kid, who inherited a really bad mind for languages from me, but it is a little galling that some schools are able to have more offerings than others. Specials feel to me like something that should be standard across the school system.

You say you want specials to be standard across the system, but that would probably mean:
1. Some of the wealthy schools would complain about which specials are chosen
OR
2. Specials that support student learning for struggling students would be cut.

Example: my child’s Title 1 school opted for reading support and reading acceleration special instead of art. Imagine some parents hearing their kids’ didn’t have Art special. I’d rather have principals decide how to use resources to support the student population.

Your example story is not possible, specials are specifically used to cover teacher planning. Also Library, PE, and Art (or Music) are all are required special every school must have.
You cannot replace it with an ‘intervention’ special -firstly because not all students would need it, what would the other students be doing? Second like I just said those 3 specials are required.


Some of you are unaware that it is the principal choosing to cut these specials -sometimes it’s a move to cut staff they don’t like and sometimes it’s just DCPS cut the schools budget so they have to get rid of the most ‘unnecessary’ staff member.

Anonymous wrote:The spanish as a special is just fluff. After a few years your kid may know how to count, their colors, a few basic phrases, a few songs.

Don’t expect much else. It’s not like they are going to be able to actually have a conversation or read spanish.

If you really want language proficiency, the only route is immersion charter to DCI for public. If you want fluency, same route and supplement with summer immersion experiences.

You have to ask the school. Mine has 2 Spanish teachers and families who ‘opt in’ their kids have Spanish 3x a week. Another school Spanish was only for 1st-5th, so they were able to do 2x a week for some classes. Some schools have other specials doubled up as well, the last school I worked at had 2 PE teachers.

However, you are correct that many schools who have specials, 1x a week is the norm.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Reframing (not OP) - which DCPS ES have a foreign language as a special, and for what grades? I learned to ask this at open houses last year, but only after I’d already been to a bunch. I stupidly assumed all ES would have at least some foreign language. They don’t! It seems that Title 1 schools sometimes opt to use their extra funding for foreign language, but some don’t. At wealthy schools it’s PTA funded, but some wealthy schools (Stoddert) don’t have any foreign language. Mann has Spanish that is PTA funded but only through 2nd (?) grade. SWS has French- is that in every grade?

Maury used to have a Spanish special but got rid of it a couple years ago. (Didn’t replace it with anything—always just cuts, cuts, cuts.) It didn’t do a lot for my kid, who inherited a really bad mind for languages from me, but it is a little galling that some schools are able to have more offerings than others. Specials feel to me like something that should be standard across the school system.

You say you want specials to be standard across the system, but that would probably mean:
1. Some of the wealthy schools would complain about which specials are chosen
OR
2. Specials that support student learning for struggling students would be cut.

Example: my child’s Title 1 school opted for reading support and reading acceleration special instead of art. Imagine some parents hearing their kids’ didn’t have Art special. I’d rather have principals decide how to use resources to support the student population.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Reframing (not OP) - which DCPS ES have a foreign language as a special, and for what grades? I learned to ask this at open houses last year, but only after I’d already been to a bunch. I stupidly assumed all ES would have at least some foreign language. They don’t! It seems that Title 1 schools sometimes opt to use their extra funding for foreign language, but some don’t. At wealthy schools it’s PTA funded, but some wealthy schools (Stoddert) don’t have any foreign language. Mann has Spanish that is PTA funded but only through 2nd (?) grade. SWS has French- is that in every grade?

Maury used to have a Spanish special but got rid of it a couple years ago. (Didn’t replace it with anything—always just cuts, cuts, cuts.) It didn’t do a lot for my kid, who inherited a really bad mind for languages from me, but it is a little galling that some schools are able to have more offerings than others. Specials feel to me like something that should be standard across the school system.

I think parents often misunderstand the cost of specials to a school. It is burdensome. It's not just the cost of the teacher, but also the cost of finding good teachers with the necessary skill set (much harder than finding grade level teachers in some cases and Spanish teachers in particular are in high demand, and in DCPS there are extra certifications that many otherwise qualified teachers don't have). Allocating classroom space, which can also be important for hiring and retention (specials teachers can be push in instructors but most don't like having to do this plus it can take away from instructional time and limit what they can do). Then you also need materials, or teachers are stuck creating their own. With Spanish this is extra important and to offer proper Spanish instruction you should really have quite a bit of media in Spanish, plus it should be targeted at different ages.

The. You have the time costs. Already schedules in elementary can be crunched, with schools needing to make resources available to 6 grades plus PK. Specials require transition time as do lunch and recess, and you have to find a way to create sensible schedules for every grade and class that ensures kids are eating lunch at a reasonable time, getting enough classroom time in fundamental subjects, and ideally don't have weird issues like having to walk back and forth to opposite ends if the school twice in 90 minutes (a huge waste of everyone's time). The more specials you gave, the harder all this is.

I know schools who deal with this by putting specials on a block schedule instead of a weekly schedule (so kids rotate through specials throughout the year, where they go to the same special daily for several weeks). That can simplify schedules but causes other issues -- is taking Spanish daily for three weeks and a few times a year helpful? What about the parts of the year where kids don't have PE for months at a time when they are in other blocks?

But parents demand specials. It rarely occurs to then that there may be real benefits to their kids to simply doing LESS and doing it well. Your kid may truly be better off with fewer specials.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Having a foreign language as a special is nothing like immersion. If you want your kid to be fluent, you need immersion and that's only available at charters.

Someone may have already debunked this but it’s not true that immersion is only available at charters. Chisholm (formerly Tyler) is DCPS Spanish immersion and I believe Oyster-Adams is, too.

But PP said fluent. Your kid is not going to be fluent with just elementary immersion. They need to continue the language thru middle school and high school. And it’s not just taking a foreign language like a traditional school but actually taking other subjects in the language too.

Oyster tracks to Adams but it’s such a small middle school with limited course offerings, EC, and clubs. Then after that it is a dead end.

So PP is correct that the only real path in this town to fluency is charter with the immersion charters to DCI. The only other path is WIS which is private and 50k plus a year

NP, and I’ve taught plenty of Oyster kids over the years. Most are pretty much fluent in Spanish.

This is true. I believe all 8th graders pass the AP exam.

Passing an AP exam just shows you are proficient. It doesn’t not mean you are fluent. Neither is just understanding.

Fluency is understanding, speaking, reading, and writing.

8th graders passing an AP exam is impressive and Adams measures language proficiency other ways. May students at Oyster Adams are native speakers.

This is an odd jumble.

I would absolutely expect native Spanish speakers to do well on the AP Spanish exam in 8th grade after years if Spanish immersion.

However, that is not terribly helpful for non-native Spanish speakers and not really an indication one way or another for how non-native speakers fare in immersion programs.

So it's actually hard to say whether 8th graders are oyster passing the AP exam is impressive or not -- I'd say it's not particularly impressive for National ve Spanish speakers but us impressive for non-native speakers but now I'm wondering what percent of Oyster 8th graders pass, what their scores are, and how results differ for native versus non-native speakers.

+1. This. As to the PP above, how exactly does Oyster measure proficiency? How does Oyster measure fluency? Where is the data to show this especially for non-native speaking kids?

Anonymous wrote:Reframing (not OP) - which DCPS ES have a foreign language as a special, and for what grades? I learned to ask this at open houses last year, but only after I’d already been to a bunch. I stupidly assumed all ES would have at least some foreign language. They don’t! It seems that Title 1 schools sometimes opt to use their extra funding for foreign language, but some don’t. At wealthy schools it’s PTA funded, but some wealthy schools (Stoddert) don’t have any foreign language. Mann has Spanish that is PTA funded but only through 2nd (?) grade. SWS has French- is that in every grade?

Maury used to have a Spanish special but got rid of it a couple years ago. (Didn’t replace it with anything—always just cuts, cuts, cuts.) It didn’t do a lot for my kid, who inherited a really bad mind for languages from me, but it is a little galling that some schools are able to have more offerings than others. Specials feel to me like something that should be standard across the school system.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Having a foreign language as a special is nothing like immersion. If you want your kid to be fluent, you need immersion and that's only available at charters.

Someone may have already debunked this but it’s not true that immersion is only available at charters. Chisholm (formerly Tyler) is DCPS Spanish immersion and I believe Oyster-Adams is, too.

But PP said fluent. Your kid is not going to be fluent with just elementary immersion. They need to continue the language thru middle school and high school. And it’s not just taking a foreign language like a traditional school but actually taking other subjects in the language too.

Oyster tracks to Adams but it’s such a small middle school with limited course offerings, EC, and clubs. Then after that it is a dead end.

So PP is correct that the only real path in this town to fluency is charter with the immersion charters to DCI. The only other path is WIS which is private and 50k plus a year

NP, and I’ve taught plenty of Oyster kids over the years. Most are pretty much fluent in Spanish.

This is true. I believe all 8th graders pass the AP exam.

Passing an AP exam just shows you are proficient. It doesn’t not mean you are fluent. Neither is just understanding.

Fluency is understanding, speaking, reading, and writing.

8th graders passing an AP exam is impressive and Adams measures language proficiency other ways. May students at Oyster Adams are native speakers.

This is an odd jumble.

I would absolutely expect native Spanish speakers to do well on the AP Spanish exam in 8th grade after years if Spanish immersion.

However, that is not terribly helpful for non-native Spanish speakers and not really an indication one way or another for how non-native speakers fare in immersion programs.

So it's actually hard to say whether 8th graders are oyster passing the AP exam is impressive or not -- I'd say it's not particularly impressive for National ve Spanish speakers but us impressive for non-native speakers but now I'm wondering what percent of Oyster 8th graders pass, what their scores are, and how results differ for native versus non-native speakers.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Having a foreign language as a special is nothing like immersion. If you want your kid to be fluent, you need immersion and that's only available at charters.

Someone may have already debunked this but it’s not true that immersion is only available at charters. Chisholm (formerly Tyler) is DCPS Spanish immersion and I believe Oyster-Adams is, too.

But PP said fluent. Your kid is not going to be fluent with just elementary immersion. They need to continue the language thru middle school and high school. And it’s not just taking a foreign language like a traditional school but actually taking other subjects in the language too.

Oyster tracks to Adams but it’s such a small middle school with limited course offerings, EC, and clubs. Then after that it is a dead end.

So PP is correct that the only real path in this town to fluency is charter with the immersion charters to DCI. The only other path is WIS which is private and 50k plus a year

NP, and I’ve taught plenty of Oyster kids over the years. Most are pretty much fluent in Spanish.

This is true. I believe all 8th graders pass the AP exam.

Passing an AP exam just shows you are proficient. It doesn’t not mean you are fluent. Neither is just understanding.

Fluency is understanding, speaking, reading, and writing.

8th graders passing an AP exam is impressive and Adams measures language proficiency other ways. May students at Oyster Adams are native speakers.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Having a foreign language as a special is nothing like immersion. If you want your kid to be fluent, you need immersion and that's only available at charters.

Someone may have already debunked this but it’s not true that immersion is only available at charters. Chisholm (formerly Tyler) is DCPS Spanish immersion and I believe Oyster-Adams is, too.

But PP said fluent. Your kid is not going to be fluent with just elementary immersion. They need to continue the language thru middle school and high school. And it’s not just taking a foreign language like a traditional school but actually taking other subjects in the language too.

Oyster tracks to Adams but it’s such a small middle school with limited course offerings, EC, and clubs. Then after that it is a dead end.

So PP is correct that the only real path in this town to fluency is charter with the immersion charters to DCI. The only other path is WIS which is private and 50k plus a year

This is silly. OP was asking about ESes. For ESes, there are immersion DCPSes (only Spanish) or charters (Spanish, Mandarin & French; there is also Sela for Hebrew, but I don't think it's a true bilingual/immersion set up). Yes, eventually you will need to head to a charter or a private or a suburb or supplement externally to keep up/improve proficiency in HS, but it is not the case that only charters do elementary immersion, which was her actual question. I know plenty of kids from Oyster who eventually become fluent without heading to a charter.

Sure there are DCPS schools. No one said there were not. What poster above said was fluency path.

How do you know all the Oyster kids are fluent? What objective data are you basing that on? I highly doubt all Oyster kids are fluent.

Lol. 12/30/2025, 20:02, the post that kicked off this entire back and forth, said EXACTLY that. To achieve fluency you need immersion, which is only available in charters. That's the false statement that is being debunked and here you come to say "no one said there were not" DCPS immersion schools. Yes they didsay that; yes they were wrong.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Having a foreign language as a special is nothing like immersion. If you want your kid to be fluent, you need immersion and that's only available at charters.

Someone may have already debunked this but it’s not true that immersion is only available at charters. Chisholm (formerly Tyler) is DCPS Spanish immersion and I believe Oyster-Adams is, too.

But PP said fluent. Your kid is not going to be fluent with just elementary immersion. They need to continue the language thru middle school and high school. And it’s not just taking a foreign language like a traditional school but actually taking other subjects in the language too.

Oyster tracks to Adams but it’s such a small middle school with limited course offerings, EC, and clubs. Then after that it is a dead end.

So PP is correct that the only real path in this town to fluency is charter with the immersion charters to DCI. The only other path is WIS which is private and 50k plus a year

This is silly. OP was asking about ESes. For ESes, there are immersion DCPSes (only Spanish) or charters (Spanish, Mandarin & French; there is also Sela for Hebrew, but I don't think it's a true bilingual/immersion set up). Yes, eventually you will need to head to a charter or a private or a suburb or supplement externally to keep up/improve proficiency in HS, but it is not the case that only charters do elementary immersion, which was her actual question. I know plenty of kids from Oyster who eventually become fluent without heading to a charter.

Sure there are DCPS schools. No one said there were not. What poster above said was fluency path.

How do you know all the Oyster kids are fluent? What objective data are you basing that on? I highly doubt all Oyster kids are fluent.

No one claimed all Oyster kids are fluent, just like you can’t claim all DCI kids are fluent. But I have taught for a long time, and many Oyster kids know Spanish.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Having a foreign language as a special is nothing like immersion. If you want your kid to be fluent, you need immersion and that's only available at charters.

Someone may have already debunked this but it’s not true that immersion is only available at charters. Chisholm (formerly Tyler) is DCPS Spanish immersion and I believe Oyster-Adams is, too.

But PP said fluent. Your kid is not going to be fluent with just elementary immersion. They need to continue the language thru middle school and high school. And it’s not just taking a foreign language like a traditional school but actually taking other subjects in the language too.

Oyster tracks to Adams but it’s such a small middle school with limited course offerings, EC, and clubs. Then after that it is a dead end.

So PP is correct that the only real path in this town to fluency is charter with the immersion charters to DCI. The only other path is WIS which is private and 50k plus a year

This is silly. OP was asking about ESes. For ESes, there are immersion DCPSes (only Spanish) or charters (Spanish, Mandarin & French; there is also Sela for Hebrew, but I don't think it's a true bilingual/immersion set up). Yes, eventually you will need to head to a charter or a private or a suburb or supplement externally to keep up/improve proficiency in HS, but it is not the case that only charters do elementary immersion, which was her actual question. I know plenty of kids from Oyster who eventually become fluent without heading to a charter.

Sure there are DCPS schools. No one said there were not. What poster above said was fluency path.

How do you know all the Oyster kids are fluent? What objective data are you basing that on? I highly doubt all Oyster kids are fluent.

I did not claim all Oyster kids are fluent. I said I know Oyster kids who became fluent without going to charters for HS. The people I know personally went to WIS or did a summer language programs in Minnesota alongside elective offerings at Walls or did a summer study abroad/exchange alongside JR’s offerings; the Minnesota program was pretty common for high level Oyster grads a few years ago and I’ve heard that DCI students do it too.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Having a foreign language as a special is nothing like immersion. If you want your kid to be fluent, you need immersion and that's only available at charters.

Someone may have already debunked this but it’s not true that immersion is only available at charters. Chisholm (formerly Tyler) is DCPS Spanish immersion and I believe Oyster-Adams is, too.

But PP said fluent. Your kid is not going to be fluent with just elementary immersion. They need to continue the language thru middle school and high school. And it’s not just taking a foreign language like a traditional school but actually taking other subjects in the language too.

Oyster tracks to Adams but it’s such a small middle school with limited course offerings, EC, and clubs. Then after that it is a dead end.

So PP is correct that the only real path in this town to fluency is charter with the immersion charters to DCI. The only other path is WIS which is private and 50k plus a year

This is silly. OP was asking about ESes. For ESes, there are immersion DCPSes (only Spanish) or charters (Spanish, Mandarin & French; there is also Sela for Hebrew, but I don't think it's a true bilingual/immersion set up). Yes, eventually you will need to head to a charter or a private or a suburb or supplement externally to keep up/improve proficiency in HS, but it is not the case that only charters do elementary immersion, which was her actual question. I know plenty of kids from Oyster who eventually become fluent without heading to a charter.

Sure there are DCPS schools. No one said there were not. What poster above said was fluency path.

How do you know all the Oyster kids are fluent? What objective data are you basing that on? I highly doubt all Oyster kids are fluent.

^^ And I actually think this is important information for OP and not just being pedantic, because unlike with a charter, she can guarantee access to DCPS immersion by moving IB for Bancroft, Powell, Chisholm, Oyster & possibly others.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Having a foreign language as a special is nothing like immersion. If you want your kid to be fluent, you need immersion and that's only available at charters.

Someone may have already debunked this but it’s not true that immersion is only available at charters. Chisholm (formerly Tyler) is DCPS Spanish immersion and I believe Oyster-Adams is, too.

But PP said fluent. Your kid is not going to be fluent with just elementary immersion. They need to continue the language thru middle school and high school. And it’s not just taking a foreign language like a traditional school but actually taking other subjects in the language too.

Oyster tracks to Adams but it’s such a small middle school with limited course offerings, EC, and clubs. Then after that it is a dead end.

So PP is correct that the only real path in this town to fluency is charter with the immersion charters to DCI. The only other path is WIS which is private and 50k plus a year

This is silly. OP was asking about ESes. For ESes, there are immersion DCPSes (only Spanish) or charters (Spanish, Mandarin & French; there is also Sela for Hebrew, but I don't think it's a true bilingual/immersion set up). Yes, eventually you will need to head to a charter or a private or a suburb or supplement externally to keep up/improve proficiency in HS, but it is not the case that only charters do elementary immersion, which was her actual question. I know plenty of kids from Oyster who eventually become fluent without heading to a charter.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Having a foreign language as a special is nothing like immersion. If you want your kid to be fluent, you need immersion and that's only available at charters.

Someone may have already debunked this but it’s not true that immersion is only available at charters. Chisholm (formerly Tyler) is DCPS Spanish immersion and I believe Oyster-Adams is, too.

But PP said fluent. Your kid is not going to be fluent with just elementary immersion. They need to continue the language thru middle school and high school. And it’s not just taking a foreign language like a traditional school but actually taking other subjects in the language too.

Oyster tracks to Adams but it’s such a small middle school with limited course offerings, EC, and clubs. Then after that it is a dead end.

So PP is correct that the only real path in this town to fluency is charter with the immersion charters to DCI. The only other path is WIS which is private and 50k plus a year

NP, and I’ve taught plenty of Oyster kids over the years. Most are pretty much fluent in Spanish.

This is true. I believe all 8th graders pass the AP exam.

Passing an AP exam just shows you are proficient. It doesn’t not mean you are fluent. Neither is just understanding.

Fluency is understanding, speaking, reading, and writing.

+1, I got a 5 on the AP Spanish exam as a high school junior and I barely speak it now and was never fluent. I am fluent in French, which I didn't begin studying until college, because I lived and worked in France for several years, made friends who speak it and continue to speak it regularly. My Spanish classes in MS/HS definitely helped me early on with understanding how to learn a language, and because of the similarities in the languages.

I think the only way to get fluent is true immersion,which means living in a place where it's the primary language for some length of time. I'm sure the early exposure of attending an immersion elementary helps, but I think there are also other ways to get early exposure (speaking it with fluent parent or nanny, weekend language school, travel, and yes, even just having it as a weekly special).