I did a BS/MD program at NU. Doesn’t exist anymore but it was great. Removes stress from undergrad years so that I could explore more. In fact, the folks in the program were less tunnel visioned because they had the freedom to take all kinds of classes and had time for non-medical ECs.
There was no obligation to go to the medical school but only a few did not.

17 was not too young to know for some people. And you aren’t locked in. If I had changed my mind, I could have taken my ABET certified engineering degree and gone a different path other than medical school. For most kids accepted into these programs, premed is a breeze, and quite frankly, so is medical school.

Most of us loved med school and did well academically. I matched into a top 3 residency for my field and still love taking care of patients now that I’m mid-career.

I was able to have children at a reasonable age, after residency…. Which is huge.

Medicine is a huge sacrifice and asking these kids now to sacrifice more years, more money, personal health, and delay family life for decreasing pay, decreasing respect, and decreasing autonomy is a fool’s errand.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Northeast Ohio has a 6-year BS-MD admit program. It works for kids who are absolutely committed to a career as a doctor. That’s rare for a 16-17 year old to have that degree of certainty especially if they’ve gone through the American system which encourages exploration. I can see why direct admit programs can be attractive, but they’re not for most kids.

No one will force them to complete the program. I had a relative enroll in a 7 year BS-MD program who opted to drop out and get a regular BS degree and pursue a different career. As long as you can pay the tuition-you can always change your mind.

And for some people-being able to save on 1-2 years of tuition by doing these accelerated BS-MD degrees means that they can save on what is already crippling levels of student debt.

Or just enroll at the regular time and get a full scholarship like my wife :mrgreen:

Yeah sure-are you offering to fund those scholarships for all medical students? Let us know.

NYU did

Anonymous wrote:I would worry that my pre-med kid would approach college with “tunnel vision” and lose the opportunity to broaden their horizons a little. Nothing wrong with being committed to a career in medicine/ it’s commendable! But there’s also a big world of people out there and I would want my pre-med kid to respect that and respect people who have different aspirations .

This defines the difference

In countries where the parents pay for education, one might consider paying for personal development.

In countries where education is significantly subsidized at a national level, the student is free to pursue personal development on the side. In fact, it is likely encouraged.

But the govt pays to subsidize the medical education of the future doctor who will serve its citizens.

Sounds fair to me. And I lean left.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Title says it all. In some European countries, Med School is direct admit.

Students still take PChem and Bio and what not, but so long ad student is passing they progress to the Medicine-specific courses without further ado. And the resulting medical knowledge is the same. They still have national licensing exams before one can practice.

You mean something sorta like maybe a pipeline from high school to med school? No, I don’t want some pimply faced 19-year-old checking my prostate with his Cheetos-stained finger, even if he wears TWO gloves.

Basic math, such as addition, is a common task in cognitive decline screening tests.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:High school education is not nearly serious or specialized enough to make judgements of medical doctor abilities.

I think that gets to the above points about foreign high schools. In England and Australia, you select five or six subjects to study intensely during years 11 and 12. There is no grade inflation. So if you took three lab sciences, English, and advanced maths and took a serially hard test in each of those to earn your spot, you could actually produce a solid class of future doctors.

I like American liberal arts requirements in theory, but the practical application is expensive and prolonged. Each system has its pluses and minuses.

US has AP classes.

There was one guy in my med school class of about 100 that started college early so was like 20 at the start of med school and he really stood out as immature. The mean age was probably 23 or 24 for rest of the class.

The problem with the US system is the cost - not the format of the BS + MD program.

If education in the US were to be as affordable as in Europe or Asia, sure go ahead with 4 years of ' foundational studies' to discover your passions..but that is rarely the case.

Most MD's are saddles with over half a million $$ in student loans.That is not a good place to start a career.

Does Europe artificially limit the number of doctors like the USA does?

direct-admit med schools take student who did half of undergrad science in high school. Look at a European entrance exam.

There was a medical student observing an office visit i had recently. She was from Brazil and she said they go to medical school directly from high school and it’s a ten year program, more for surgeons, etc.

It sounds like their focus is 100% medicine where Americans take quite a few classes in the first four years that won’t help them at all with their medical training.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Northeast Ohio has a 6-year BS-MD admit program. It works for kids who are absolutely committed to a career as a doctor. That’s rare for a 16-17 year old to have that degree of certainty especially if they’ve gone through the American system which encourages exploration. I can see why direct admit programs can be attractive, but they’re not for most kids.

No one will force them to complete the program. I had a relative enroll in a 7 year BS-MD program who opted to drop out and get a regular BS degree and pursue a different career. As long as you can pay the tuition-you can always change your mind.

And for some people-being able to save on 1-2 years of tuition by doing these accelerated BS-MD degrees means that they can save on what is already crippling levels of student debt.

Or just enroll at the regular time and get a full scholarship like my wife :mrgreen:

Yeah sure-are you offering to fund those scholarships for all medical students? Let us know.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Northeast Ohio has a 6-year BS-MD admit program. It works for kids who are absolutely committed to a career as a doctor. That’s rare for a 16-17 year old to have that degree of certainty especially if they’ve gone through the American system which encourages exploration. I can see why direct admit programs can be attractive, but they’re not for most kids.

No one will force them to complete the program. I had a relative enroll in a 7 year BS-MD program who opted to drop out and get a regular BS degree and pursue a different career. As long as you can pay the tuition-you can always change your mind.

And for some people-being able to save on 1-2 years of tuition by doing these accelerated BS-MD degrees means that they can save on what is already crippling levels of student debt.

Or just enroll at the regular time and get a full scholarship like my wife :mrgreen:

Anonymous wrote:Northeast Ohio has a 6-year BS-MD admit program. It works for kids who are absolutely committed to a career as a doctor. That’s rare for a 16-17 year old to have that degree of certainty especially if they’ve gone through the American system which encourages exploration. I can see why direct admit programs can be attractive, but they’re not for most kids.

No one will force them to complete the program. I had a relative enroll in a 7 year BS-MD program who opted to drop out and get a regular BS degree and pursue a different career. As long as you can pay the tuition-you can always change your mind.

And for some people-being able to save on 1-2 years of tuition by doing these accelerated BS-MD degrees means that they can save on what is already crippling levels of student debt.

No. Most kids would flunk out immediately and then not know what to do.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do your reseaerch as some US colleges do this. Brown University has PLME (8 year automatic admission to its medical school). I think Penn State and Thomas Jefferson Medical School still has this too (7 years for undergrad/MD degrees).

There are others...of course you have to keep up the minimum GPA etc.

I knew several kids in the Brown program. Half were deeply unhappy in med school/as doctors. Others thrived. When you ask kids to make huge career defining decisions as teens, a substantial number will have regrets.

That’s true of most careers-lots of people have regrets whether they choose at age 18 or at age 22.

No one is forcing these kids to enroll in a guaranteed MD program and indeed few do. I know several doctors who went the Brown program too and they were happy to have med school settled while others stressed out over their grad school plans. But these are stellar students who would have been accepted to medical schools anywhere, if they hadn’t committed to the PLME.