Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The projected cost of a US invasion of Venezuela is over 1 trillion. This does not include long term occupation, VA benefits, etc.

Yeah. These dolts don't understand how inaccessible many of these oil fields are and how a protracted guerrilla war in those areas will drain American resources and cause the entire region to destabilize.

Anonymous wrote:"Venezuela is completely surrounded by the largest Armada ever assembled in the History of South America."

Anonymous wrote:Looks like Trump is going to invade Venezuela. What is your prediction on the invasion date and size of forces?

I predict it will be Dec 25th and 18th airborne corps, 22nd Marine Expeditionary Unit and USSOCOM. Caracas sits in a valley with steep mountains separating it from the Caribbean coast. The only access is by tunnels to the coast. If the tunnels are destroyed the population in Caracas will have a hard time getting food.

Venezuela is twice the size of Iraq with a population of 30 million(Iraq 45 million).

It’s coming. You can not keep the fleet deployed indefinitely in the Caribbean. What are your predictions?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The projected cost of a US invasion of Venezuela is over 1 trillion. This does not include long term occupation, VA benefits, etc.

Yeah. These dolts don't understand how inaccessible many of these oil fields are and how a protracted guerrilla war in those areas will drain American resources and cause the entire region to destabilize.

Anonymous wrote:The projected cost of a US invasion of Venezuela is over 1 trillion. This does not include long term occupation, VA benefits, etc.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I posted this on the other thread...

Senator Murphy just said on IG that he got his first briefing on this and while he obvs can't share details, he said:

1. There was zero justification.

2. The briefing said there is no fentanyl coming from Venezuela, but that it's cocaine and it's going to Europe NOT to the US. Ergo, we are literally spending taxpayer money to fight drug crimes in Europe!

No we aren't. Don't be naive. This is about imperialism. We're demanding access to their oil and land which we somehow claim they took from us. Trump said as much in his post about the blockade.

Just a bit of history to inform you.

Venezuela started nationalizing its oil industry in the mid-1970s. ExxonMobil, Chevron, Texaco, Gulf, ConocoPhilips etc. all had major oil operations there. Those operations were appropriated by Venezuela piecemeal since then and the only US oil player who remains is Chevron. And Chevron does so through special licenses granted by the US Treasury, Department of Commerce and Venezuela. So, yes, Venezuela did take land and oil from US companies. Thisis a pretty stupid solution to crap that occurred 25-50 years ago, though.

Wasn’t this settled in international courts through reparations?

Yes, Exxon has won a bunch of lawsuits against Venezuela and has been paid most of what it won. They are still some fights about a couple hundred million or so. Apparently American soldiers should be put in harms way for the sake of Exxon profits.

Couple hundred million!!???!!

Try around 150 BILLION in claims related to Venezuelan property takings. It wasn't just Exxon. And people are clamoring for Venezuelan assets. Citgo lost a case in the past few years involving creditors trying to seize Venezuelan assets. It was 20 billion dollars worth.

Exxon claims much more but they have not won judgements for anything close to that

It is MUCH more than Exxon. There are dozens of companies that got screwed out of their property. Here's a partial list.

Oil and Energy SectorExxonMobil (U.S.): Assets in Orinoco Belt heavy oil projects expropriated in 2007 after refusing majority state control.
ConocoPhillips (U.S.): Major investments in Petrozuata, Hamaca, and Corocoro projects seized in 2007; awarded ~$8.7 billion in compensation via arbitration.
Helmerich & Payne (U.S.): 11 oil rigs seized in 2010.
Williams Companies (U.S.): Gas injection project taken in 2009.
AES Corp (U.S.): Stake in Electricidad de Caracas (largest private power producer) nationalized in 2007.
Other foreign operators (e.g., Total, BP, Statoil, Chevron) were forced into minority roles or exited.

Steel and Mining
Sidor (owned by Ternium, Luxembourg/Argentina): Venezuela's largest steel producer nationalized in 2008–2009.
Gold mining companies (e.g., Rusoro Mining, Canada/Russia): Operations nationalized in 2011.

Agriculture and Food
Vestey Foods (British): ~494,000 acres of land seized in 2010 as part of land reform.
Cargill (U.S.): Rice processing plants expropriated in 2009.
Agroislena: Major agricultural supply company nationalized in 2010.

Coffee corporations:
Cafe Madrid and Fama de America nationalized.
Various sugar plants and supermarkets (e.g., Exito chain).

Fertilizer and Chemicals
Fertinitro (partially owned by Koch Industries, U.S.): World's major nitrogen fertilizer producer nationalized in 2010.

Cement
Multiple foreign cement companies (e.g., subsidiaries of Cemex, Holcim, Lafarge) nationalized in 2008.Banking and TelecommunicationsBanco de Venezuela (owned by Santander, Spain): Purchased/nationalized in 2008.
CANTV (telecommunications, stake owned by Verizon, U.S.): Nationalized in 2007.

Other Sectors
Conferry (ferry/shipping): Largest commercial shipping company nationalized in 2011.
Owens-Illinois (U.S.): Glass manufacturing facilities expropriated.
Hilton (hotel operations in Caracas): License revoked and property taken in 2007 (renamed Alba Hotel).

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I posted this on the other thread...

Senator Murphy just said on IG that he got his first briefing on this and while he obvs can't share details, he said:

1. There was zero justification.

2. The briefing said there is no fentanyl coming from Venezuela, but that it's cocaine and it's going to Europe NOT to the US. Ergo, we are literally spending taxpayer money to fight drug crimes in Europe!

No we aren't. Don't be naive. This is about imperialism. We're demanding access to their oil and land which we somehow claim they took from us. Trump said as much in his post about the blockade.

Just a bit of history to inform you.

Venezuela started nationalizing its oil industry in the mid-1970s. ExxonMobil, Chevron, Texaco, Gulf, ConocoPhilips etc. all had major oil operations there. Those operations were appropriated by Venezuela piecemeal since then and the only US oil player who remains is Chevron. And Chevron does so through special licenses granted by the US Treasury, Department of Commerce and Venezuela. So, yes, Venezuela did take land and oil from US companies. Thisis a pretty stupid solution to crap that occurred 25-50 years ago, though.

Wasn’t this settled in international courts through reparations?

Yes, Exxon has won a bunch of lawsuits against Venezuela and has been paid most of what it won. They are still some fights about a couple hundred million or so. Apparently American soldiers should be put in harms way for the sake of Exxon profits.

Couple hundred million!!???!!

Try around 150 BILLION in claims related to Venezuelan property takings. It wasn't just Exxon. And people are clamoring for Venezuelan assets. Citgo lost a case in the past few years involving creditors trying to seize Venezuelan assets. It was 20 billion dollars worth.

Exxon claims much more but they have not won judgements for anything close to that

It is MUCH more than Exxon. There are dozens of companies that got screwed out of their property. Here's a partial list.

Oil and Energy SectorExxonMobil (U.S.): Assets in Orinoco Belt heavy oil projects expropriated in 2007 after refusing majority state control.
ConocoPhillips (U.S.): Major investments in Petrozuata, Hamaca, and Corocoro projects seized in 2007; awarded ~$8.7 billion in compensation via arbitration.
Helmerich & Payne (U.S.): 11 oil rigs seized in 2010.
Williams Companies (U.S.): Gas injection project taken in 2009.
AES Corp (U.S.): Stake in Electricidad de Caracas (largest private power producer) nationalized in 2007.
Other foreign operators (e.g., Total, BP, Statoil, Chevron) were forced into minority roles or exited.

Steel and Mining
Sidor (owned by Ternium, Luxembourg/Argentina): Venezuela's largest steel producer nationalized in 2008–2009.
Gold mining companies (e.g., Rusoro Mining, Canada/Russia): Operations nationalized in 2011.

Agriculture and Food
Vestey Foods (British): ~494,000 acres of land seized in 2010 as part of land reform.
Cargill (U.S.): Rice processing plants expropriated in 2009.
Agroislena: Major agricultural supply company nationalized in 2010.

Coffee corporations:
Cafe Madrid and Fama de America nationalized.
Various sugar plants and supermarkets (e.g., Exito chain).

Fertilizer and Chemicals
Fertinitro (partially owned by Koch Industries, U.S.): World's major nitrogen fertilizer producer nationalized in 2010.

Cement
Multiple foreign cement companies (e.g., subsidiaries of Cemex, Holcim, Lafarge) nationalized in 2008.Banking and TelecommunicationsBanco de Venezuela (owned by Santander, Spain): Purchased/nationalized in 2008.
CANTV (telecommunications, stake owned by Verizon, U.S.): Nationalized in 2007.

Other Sectors
Conferry (ferry/shipping): Largest commercial shipping company nationalized in 2011.
Owens-Illinois (U.S.): Glass manufacturing facilities expropriated.
Hilton (hotel operations in Caracas): License revoked and property taken in 2007 (renamed Alba Hotel).

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I posted this on the other thread...

Senator Murphy just said on IG that he got his first briefing on this and while he obvs can't share details, he said:

1. There was zero justification.

2. The briefing said there is no fentanyl coming from Venezuela, but that it's cocaine and it's going to Europe NOT to the US. Ergo, we are literally spending taxpayer money to fight drug crimes in Europe!

No we aren't. Don't be naive. This is about imperialism. We're demanding access to their oil and land which we somehow claim they took from us. Trump said as much in his post about the blockade.

Just a bit of history to inform you.

Venezuela started nationalizing its oil industry in the mid-1970s. ExxonMobil, Chevron, Texaco, Gulf, ConocoPhilips etc. all had major oil operations there. Those operations were appropriated by Venezuela piecemeal since then and the only US oil player who remains is Chevron. And Chevron does so through special licenses granted by the US Treasury, Department of Commerce and Venezuela. So, yes, Venezuela did take land and oil from US companies. Thisis a pretty stupid solution to crap that occurred 25-50 years ago, though.

Wasn’t this settled in international courts through reparations?

Yes, Exxon has won a bunch of lawsuits against Venezuela and has been paid most of what it won. They are still some fights about a couple hundred million or so. Apparently American soldiers should be put in harms way for the sake of Exxon profits.

Couple hundred million!!???!!

Try around 150 BILLION in claims related to Venezuelan property takings. It wasn't just Exxon. And people are clamoring for Venezuelan assets. Citgo lost a case in the past few years involving creditors trying to seize Venezuelan assets. It was 20 billion dollars worth.

That is laughable. Exxon was took 1.5 million barrels oil a day from 1950-1975. Do you just make up these number? What people are clamoring for Venezuela 17 year oil assets?

Under international law any country can nationalize its resources. The country only has to pay fair market value for the assets. Venezuela nationalized heavy oil projects in the Orinoco Belt in 2007. ExxonMobil took Venezuela to international arbitration (ICSID, ICC) seeking compensation.

ExxonMobil's heavy oil projects in the Orinoco Belt was valued by Exxon at 5 billion in 2006. Exxon claimed a fair market value of 10 billion. In 2014 ICSID awarded ExxonMobil $1.6 billion for the expropriated assets. Venezuela argued the amount was less than sought to reduce to claim. To date Venezuela has paid over $1 billion to ExxonMobil. Not even close to 150 billion!

Here is why Exxon and the Texas oil men are so bitter. In 2008 The state-owned oil company, Petróleos de Venezuela (PDVSA), produced 3.2 million barrels per day (bpd). Including liquefied natural gas, the company claimed a total daily production average of 3.42 million barrels. In Jan 2008 oil was $90 a barrel by July $147 a barrel. Oil crashed to $40 by Dec but the average price was $98 a barrel. Venezuela oil production cost are $8-$10 a barrel.

Now do you think Exxon will be invited back into Venezuela?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I posted this on the other thread...

Senator Murphy just said on IG that he got his first briefing on this and while he obvs can't share details, he said:

1. There was zero justification.

2. The briefing said there is no fentanyl coming from Venezuela, but that it's cocaine and it's going to Europe NOT to the US. Ergo, we are literally spending taxpayer money to fight drug crimes in Europe!

No we aren't. Don't be naive. This is about imperialism. We're demanding access to their oil and land which we somehow claim they took from us. Trump said as much in his post about the blockade.

Just a bit of history to inform you.

Venezuela started nationalizing its oil industry in the mid-1970s. ExxonMobil, Chevron, Texaco, Gulf, ConocoPhilips etc. all had major oil operations there. Those operations were appropriated by Venezuela piecemeal since then and the only US oil player who remains is Chevron. And Chevron does so through special licenses granted by the US Treasury, Department of Commerce and Venezuela. So, yes, Venezuela did take land and oil from US companies. Thisis a pretty stupid solution to crap that occurred 25-50 years ago, though.

Wasn’t this settled in international courts through reparations?

Yes, Exxon has won a bunch of lawsuits against Venezuela and has been paid most of what it won. They are still some fights about a couple hundred million or so. Apparently American soldiers should be put in harms way for the sake of Exxon profits.

Couple hundred million!!???!!

Try around 150 BILLION in claims related to Venezuelan property takings. It wasn't just Exxon. And people are clamoring for Venezuelan assets. Citgo lost a case in the past few years involving creditors trying to seize Venezuelan assets. It was 20 billion dollars worth.

Exxon claims much more but they have not won judgements for anything close to that

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I posted this on the other thread...

Senator Murphy just said on IG that he got his first briefing on this and while he obvs can't share details, he said:

1. There was zero justification.

2. The briefing said there is no fentanyl coming from Venezuela, but that it's cocaine and it's going to Europe NOT to the US. Ergo, we are literally spending taxpayer money to fight drug crimes in Europe!

No we aren't. Don't be naive. This is about imperialism. We're demanding access to their oil and land which we somehow claim they took from us. Trump said as much in his post about the blockade.

Just a bit of history to inform you.

Venezuela started nationalizing its oil industry in the mid-1970s. ExxonMobil, Chevron, Texaco, Gulf, ConocoPhilips etc. all had major oil operations there. Those operations were appropriated by Venezuela piecemeal since then and the only US oil player who remains is Chevron. And Chevron does so through special licenses granted by the US Treasury, Department of Commerce and Venezuela. So, yes, Venezuela did take land and oil from US companies. Thisis a pretty stupid solution to crap that occurred 25-50 years ago, though.

Wasn’t this settled in international courts through reparations?

Yes, Exxon has won a bunch of lawsuits against Venezuela and has been paid most of what it won. They are still some fights about a couple hundred million or so. Apparently American soldiers should be put in harms way for the sake of Exxon profits.

Couple hundred million!!???!!

Try around 150 BILLION in claims related to Venezuelan property takings. It wasn't just Exxon. And people are clamoring for Venezuelan assets. Citgo lost a case in the past few years involving creditors trying to seize Venezuelan assets. It was 20 billion dollars worth.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I posted this on the other thread...

Senator Murphy just said on IG that he got his first briefing on this and while he obvs can't share details, he said:

1. There was zero justification.

2. The briefing said there is no fentanyl coming from Venezuela, but that it's cocaine and it's going to Europe NOT to the US. Ergo, we are literally spending taxpayer money to fight drug crimes in Europe!

No we aren't. Don't be naive. This is about imperialism. We're demanding access to their oil and land which we somehow claim they took from us. Trump said as much in his post about the blockade.

Just a bit of history to inform you.

Venezuela started nationalizing its oil industry in the mid-1970s. ExxonMobil, Chevron, Texaco, Gulf, ConocoPhilips etc. all had major oil operations there. Those operations were appropriated by Venezuela piecemeal since then and the only US oil player who remains is Chevron. And Chevron does so through special licenses granted by the US Treasury, Department of Commerce and Venezuela. So, yes, Venezuela did take land and oil from US companies. Thisis a pretty stupid solution to crap that occurred 25-50 years ago, though.

Wasn’t this settled in international courts through reparations?

Yes, Exxon has won a bunch of lawsuits against Venezuela and has been paid most of what it won. They are still some fights about a couple hundred million or so. Apparently American soldiers should be put in harms way for the sake of Exxon profits.

Couple hundred million!!???!!

Try around 150 BILLION in claims related to Venezuelan property takings. It wasn't just Exxon. And people are clamoring for Venezuelan assets. Citgo lost a case in the past few years involving creditors trying to seize Venezuelan assets. It was 20 billion dollars worth.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I posted this on the other thread...

Senator Murphy just said on IG that he got his first briefing on this and while he obvs can't share details, he said:

1. There was zero justification.

2. The briefing said there is no fentanyl coming from Venezuela, but that it's cocaine and it's going to Europe NOT to the US. Ergo, we are literally spending taxpayer money to fight drug crimes in Europe!

No we aren't. Don't be naive. This is about imperialism. We're demanding access to their oil and land which we somehow claim they took from us. Trump said as much in his post about the blockade.

Just a bit of history to inform you.

Venezuela started nationalizing its oil industry in the mid-1970s. ExxonMobil, Chevron, Texaco, Gulf, ConocoPhilips etc. all had major oil operations there. Those operations were appropriated by Venezuela piecemeal since then and the only US oil player who remains is Chevron. And Chevron does so through special licenses granted by the US Treasury, Department of Commerce and Venezuela. So, yes, Venezuela did take land and oil from US companies. Thisis a pretty stupid solution to crap that occurred 25-50 years ago, though.

Wasn’t this settled in international courts through reparations?

Yes, Exxon has won a bunch of lawsuits against Venezuela and has been paid most of what it won. They are still some fights about a couple hundred million or so. Apparently American soldiers should be put in harms way for the sake of Exxon profits.