Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FCPS needs to take a critical look at all of its programs. Like many things FCPS on the whole executes IB poorly.

Reduce the offering to 2 or 3 schools, shore up the program so that those who want it for their kids can have the best IB program FCPS can offer.

Allow pupil placement into IB schools which also should offer full slate of AP and DE courses.

As a Marshall parent who likes the IB program, I actually agree with making it available in only a few schools. IB is great for my humanities kid but I wish I had the option of AP for her sibling.

You do. It’s called Falls Church HS, and it’s not far.

Bottom line, tax revenues are dropping. Enrollment is dropping. The system can’t have everything. They’re going to need to decide if they want to keep both of these or scale it down dramatically and try to save some money. Is this really the highest priority?

All the AP advocates overlook the shortcomings with AP and there are many. The teaching to the test, the lack of depth, the poor development of critical thinking. Then there is the empirical data that a large number of students either don’t take the exam or score 3 or lower. If you are judging IB based on the number achieving the diploma, AP should be judged just as harshly for the students who don’t pass the College Board evaluation.

1.Teaching to the test.
Sure, this can be a problem if it is just practicing the tests. However, don't most teachers teach the materials that are expected to be tested? We should not test the students on what they have been taught?

2. Lack of depth. I disagree with this. DS shared a little of one of the questions on his test. I thought it was pretty deep and encompassed a lot of material covered. (APUSH)

3. Poor development of critical thinking. Again, that does not seem true to me. In order to think critically, you must first have information. There is plenty of that.

And, as for passing the test. DD began college as an academic sophomore. (That requires mostly 5's on the test.)

Somehow, IB people have been led to think their program is superior. I am sure there are great things about it, but it does not have anywhere near the flexibility of AP. And, this will have an impace on these boundary changes.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow the IB hater(s) are out in full force! Really foaming at the mouth!

Thank you, PP! They come back every other week, don't they?!
Our whole family loves IB!

You are part of the 2% that keeps us all suffering the scourge that is IB.

Not PP but Dramatic much? Some families prefer IB. But I don’t think the people who prefer IB are the problem. I (and I think other such families) would probably be fine if FCPS only had it at a couple of schools. The people against it are the ones who use IB to transfer their kids to more “desirable” schools.

Anonymous wrote:FCPS needs to take a critical look at all of its programs. Like many things FCPS on the whole executes IB poorly.

Reduce the offering to 2 or 3 schools, shore up the program so that those who want it for their kids can have the best IB program FCPS can offer.

Allow pupil placement into IB schools which also should offer full slate of AP and DE courses.

As a Marshall parent who likes the IB program, I actually agree with making it available in only a few schools. IB is great for my humanities kid but I wish I had the option of AP for her sibling.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Would love to get rid of IB programs and offer more AP and dual enrollment classes. Robinson parent.

Marshall parent here. What's wrong with giving students as many options as possible? If taught correctly, IB courses prepare students for college just as well as DE and AP classes.

It’s not about preparing for college, it’s about attaining college credits. IB credits aren’t as universally accepted.

That’s not true but yes, the focus should be on preparing kids to do well in college.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The idea that IB is only valuable if you get the diploma is so silly. Is AP only valuable if you take 8 AP courses?

The entire point of IB os the diploma.

No it’s not. Are you at an IB school? The entire point of an IB curriculum is multipart and it is all aimed at building up all parts of a student. It’s part global citizen, part classical education, part rigorous curriculum, part critical thinking, part being an engaged and reflective member of your community, and part communication both written and oral. Students benefit from this if they take 1 IB class or all IB classes. At all the IB schools, students take the classes at high rates even if they don’t work towards the IB diploma. They are still benefiting from the program.

Are there some shortcomings with IB, yes. Particularly around math, it needs to go deeper into college mathematics. But it’s a great program and sets students up for success in college.

All the AP advocates overlook the shortcomings with AP and there are many. The teaching to the test, the lack of depth, the poor development of critical thinking. Then there is the empirical data that a large number of students either don’t take the exam or score 3 or lower. If you are judging IB based on the number achieving the diploma, AP should be judged just as harshly for the students who don’t pass the College Board evaluation.

I could argue about your last paragraph, but want to focus on your IB assertions. Which part of IB is "classical education"? And I would argue that there is no such thing as being a "global citizen," nor should there be.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow the IB hater(s) are out in full force! Really foaming at the mouth!

Thank you, PP! They come back every other week, don't they?!
Our whole family loves IB!

So you are a part of the 50-100 kids who work towards the diploma at one of the schools with only IB. Most of the other families don't care enough to say much. The ones who do, pupil place out because we know that the school board is going to ignore our calls for AP at the school.

A simple solution is to offer AP and IB a few of the schools. Kids wanting IB can attend those schools and take the IB classes. Kids who want AP can take AP classes. This is a simple solution, I suspect it isn't enacted because they board knows that most kids will choose AP and the IB classes will not have enough kids to maintain the program at the school.

Some of the B schools have fewer than a dozen students working for an IB degree.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow the IB hater(s) are out in full force! Really foaming at the mouth!

Thank you, PP! They come back every other week, don't they?!
Our whole family loves IB!

So you are a part of the 50-100 kids who work towards the diploma at one of the schools with only IB. Most of the other families don't care enough to say much. The ones who do, pupil place out because we know that the school board is going to ignore our calls for AP at the school.

A simple solution is to offer AP and IB a few of the schools. Kids wanting IB can attend those schools and take the IB classes. Kids who want AP can take AP classes. This is a simple solution, I suspect it isn't enacted because they board knows that most kids will choose AP and the IB classes will not have enough kids to maintain the program at the school.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow the IB hater(s) are out in full force! Really foaming at the mouth!

Thank you, PP! They come back every other week, don't they?!
Our whole family loves IB!

It’s good your “whole family” (even the dog?) loves IB. Maybe that will get the IB diploma rate up to 5% at your high school.

But it’s still a waste of money.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow the IB hater(s) are out in full force! Really foaming at the mouth!

Thank you, PP! They come back every other week, don't they?!
Our whole family loves IB!

You are part of the 2% that keeps us all suffering the scourge that is IB.

Anonymous wrote:Wow the IB hater(s) are out in full force! Really foaming at the mouth!

Thank you, PP! They come back every other week, don't they?!
Our whole family loves IB!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The idea that IB is only valuable if you get the diploma is so silly. Is AP only valuable if you take 8 AP courses?

The entire point of IB os the diploma.

No it’s not. Are you at an IB school? The entire point of an IB curriculum is multipart and it is all aimed at building up all parts of a student. It’s part global citizen, part classical education, part rigorous curriculum, part critical thinking, part being an engaged and reflective member of your community, and part communication both written and oral. Students benefit from this if they take 1 IB class or all IB classes. At all the IB schools, students take the classes at high rates even if they don’t work towards the IB diploma. They are still benefiting from the program.

Are there some shortcomings with IB, yes. Particularly around math, it needs to go deeper into college mathematics. But it’s a great program and sets students up for success in college.

All the AP advocates overlook the shortcomings with AP and there are many. The teaching to the test, the lack of depth, the poor development of critical thinking. Then there is the empirical data that a large number of students either don’t take the exam or score 3 or lower. If you are judging IB based on the number achieving the diploma, AP should be judged just as harshly for the students who don’t pass the College Board evaluation.

This is the silliest post I’ve ever read about the magic IB pixie dust.

A school cannot offer IB unless it agrees to structure its academic courses around the IB diploma “programme.” It has been a giant failure and waste of money in FCPS. AP is more flexible and less expensive but the School Board eats up the “global citizens” PR from the IBO like catnip.

This post is just silly and basic IB PR. I work at an IB school and teach the classes. Some are good, some I find to have too much busy work in them. I like my school in general and the commute works so I stay. I would never want my own kids to take these courses if we had a choice, which we did, so we purposely bought in an area so they could attend an AP school.

Yes, the global citizen talk is nauseating. We didn’t need to hire college counselors for essays, they did plenty of writing, took rigorous courses and were well prepared for college at their AP HS.

I’m not sure why the IB pushers think IB better prepares for college. I have experience at both.

Anonymous wrote:Wow the IB hater(s) are out in full force! Really foaming at the mouth!

The counties around us offer IB as an opt-in program that kids apply for while the rest of the HS takes AP. APS and LCPS both have schools that students can choose to attend for IB but all of the schools have full AP programs for everyone. If FCPS wants to keep IB, they need to offer AP at all the schools instead of putting the burden on the parents to move their kids to AP HS for the program that they want their kid in. I would guess that they don't put AP at the IB schools because the numbers of kids taking IB classes would drop even lower then it currently is.

And don't tell me that the majority of students take IB classes at the schools, I want to know what percentage are taking HL classes because those are the AP equivalents. SL classes are not the same. We are zoned for an IB school and I know plenty of kids who are taking only IB SL classes, they will not take any HL class. The IB HL classes are not offered for most of the sciences because there is not enough interest.

FCPS cannot even hire MS Counselors who are able to provide good information to families in MS for HS classes. The IB diploma requires 5 years of foreign language but the MS Counselors actively tell families whose kids are attending IB HS that their kids don't need to take a foreign language in 8th grade. Kids are behind in the program before they even step foot in the HS. How ridiculous is that.

IB is an interesting concept that can work well if people are completing the diploma. It is an overall approach to education that is strong because of the sum of its parts. When you allow people to only take an IB class here or there, you are not utilizing the strength of the program. You can tell me all you want that you don't have to have the IB diploma for the program to be successful but that is a cop out. The program is meant to be geared towards completing the diploma. You can get something out of taking the individual classes but they are not meant to be taken as one or two classes. You don't go to a HS in Europe and get a degree without taking all of the classes. That is the IB model. AP was not built as a diploma, it was meant to be a pick and choose classes based on strengths and interest.

If FCPS is not going to promote IB for what it is and actually get kids into the diploma track then they need to ditch the program. At the very least, every HS should have AP as an option for the kids that don't want to do IB. Or the county can bus kids to the AP school near them so kids can have access to the program that is commonly accepted in the US.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The idea that IB is only valuable if you get the diploma is so silly. Is AP only valuable if you take 8 AP courses?

The entire point of IB os the diploma.

No it’s not. Are you at an IB school? The entire point of an IB curriculum is multipart and it is all aimed at building up all parts of a student. It’s part global citizen, part classical education, part rigorous curriculum, part critical thinking, part being an engaged and reflective member of your community, and part communication both written and oral. Students benefit from this if they take 1 IB class or all IB classes. At all the IB schools, students take the classes at high rates even if they don’t work towards the IB diploma. They are still benefiting from the program.

Are there some shortcomings with IB, yes. Particularly around math, it needs to go deeper into college mathematics. But it’s a great program and sets students up for success in college.

All the AP advocates overlook the shortcomings with AP and there are many. The teaching to the test, the lack of depth, the poor development of critical thinking. Then there is the empirical data that a large number of students either don’t take the exam or score 3 or lower. If you are judging IB based on the number achieving the diploma, AP should be judged just as harshly for the students who don’t pass the College Board evaluation.

This is the silliest post I’ve ever read about the magic IB pixie dust.

A school cannot offer IB unless it agrees to structure its academic courses around the IB diploma “programme.” It has been a giant failure and waste of money in FCPS. AP is more flexible and less expensive but the School Board eats up the “global citizens” PR from the IBO like catnip.