Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My personal thought is that people are going to work longer if they are healthy enough.

A lot of the retirees/forced-out older managers and execs from my F500 company seem to not fully retire. Even re-emerge with new full-time corporate jobs after a few years off.

My grandpa retired from a corporation at 65 and lived to be 94. He easily could have worked until 80-85.

If economics change in ways that make it useful or necessary for retiree age people to work, it will happen.

If it's expected that I have to work FULL TIME until 80s I'd rather be euthanized. Unless someone really loves their job to the point of passion, or they work some easy hobby job part time for social interaction nobody in their right mind aspires to be a wage slave till the day they drop dead with limited vacation time, living for a weekend, and having to answer to bosses and clients all day long majority of your day. F this.

THIS. I’m only 48 and will be LIMPING to work until I’m 55. I’ve already confirmed my DH that he’s gonna hold the bag after that. I’m BURNT OUT. I’ve been working full time since age 18 and have raised 2 kids without a single break. I’m crashed out.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My personal thought is that people are going to work longer if they are healthy enough.

A lot of the retirees/forced-out older managers and execs from my F500 company seem to not fully retire. Even re-emerge with new full-time corporate jobs after a few years off.

My grandpa retired from a corporation at 65 and lived to be 94. He easily could have worked until 80-85.

If economics change in ways that make it useful or necessary for retiree age people to work, it will happen.

If it's expected that I have to work FULL TIME until 80s I'd rather be euthanized. Unless someone really loves their job to the point of passion, or they work some easy hobby job part time for social interaction nobody in their right mind aspires to be a wage slave till the day they drop dead with limited vacation time, living for a weekend, and having to answer to bosses and clients all day long majority of your day. F this.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My personal thought is that people are going to work longer if they are healthy enough.

A lot of the retirees/forced-out older managers and execs from my F500 company seem to not fully retire. Even re-emerge with new full-time corporate jobs after a few years off.

My grandpa retired from a corporation at 65 and lived to be 94. He easily could have worked until 80-85.

If economics change in ways that make it useful or necessary for retiree age people to work, it will happen.

In order for this to be a viable solution, you need older people to be healthier than they are. It's one thing for a wealthy white guy to work until he's 80 after decades of excellent healthcare in corporate jobs, and not doing hard labor. This is not the case for the vast majority of elderly people, who have disabilities that prevent them from doing a lot of even low-impact jobs. And it does nothing to solve the problem of a shortage in workers for physically demanding jobs in essential industries like agriculture, construction, infrastructure and maintenance, and healthcare. Heck, a significant number of the jobs in healthcare we need to fill are needed to care for the disabled elderly population. Sorry but there are no 80 yr olds who are going to take jobs as health aides whose whole job is help 80 yr olds.

I think if you've only ever known UMC and UC people working cushy white collar jobs, you may not understand how this really works. But who cleaned your granpa's house? Who mowed his lawn? Who *build* his house? Who built the roads he drove on? Who taught his kids to read? Who took his blood pressure at the doctor's office?

Think. We aren't facing a shortage of corporate executives here.

PP. You are being unnecessarily insulting. There are quite a lot of middle-class white collar workers. And pensions are going away so people don't get the automatic income they used to.

Regarding your rhetorical questions. My grandpa didn't move between the ages of about 50 and 94. He mowed his own lawn using a lawn tractor. And did a lot of home maintenance himself.

I have another relative, not so fancy but a bit of a layabout, who went to work as a care provider at an old folks home in his late 60s/early 70s because he still needed to earn some social security credits at that advanced age. He was able to perform that work.

I've run across a lot of older physicians lately. Meaning boomer-ish who look like they could retire if they want to (60s plus).

My elderly parents just had their chimney rebuilt and the main mason looked extremely old. But he was spry and did a good job. He had a younger man with him. Older people can retain a lot of muscle and dexterity if they are active their whole lives.

My kids have a sub at their school that is extremely old from their perspective. Possibly in her 80s. A famously-beloved elementary teacher just retired after 50! years of service. So she was at least 72.

My point is that people will come back into jobs if they need or want the money. No, they can't do every job.

Heck, I myself am wondering if when I'm old if I could be a nanny to a professional family. It seems like being a grandma babysitter could be worth at least $40K a year or more to a highly-compensated professional couple. "Household managers" even more.

It's not just UMC people's jobs that could continue to be done.

The concept of retirement was invented. It's not entirely natural.

No one wants your old butt as a nanny or house manager
Who the hell will be able to afford either once republicans are done killing jobs and the economy??

I disagree. It's quite hard in my area to find a reliable, highly-educated, legally-here young woman with full-day availability whom you would trust to drive your kids around town. And currently older people don't need to bother because they have pensions and Social Security. Or veterans' benefits. My grandma's senior living community was full of Silent Generation and Boomer people who were supporting themselves mainly with those kind of payments. But Gen-X doesn't often have that setup.

No matter what, there are always rich people. Rich Republicans will ensure that rich Republicans remain. No matter how hard you culminate. There are still rich people in Europe and Japan.

Your solution to 80-somethings needing work instead of retirement is to hire young women? Genius.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My personal thought is that people are going to work longer if they are healthy enough.

A lot of the retirees/forced-out older managers and execs from my F500 company seem to not fully retire. Even re-emerge with new full-time corporate jobs after a few years off.

My grandpa retired from a corporation at 65 and lived to be 94. He easily could have worked until 80-85.

If economics change in ways that make it useful or necessary for retiree age people to work, it will happen.

If it's expected that I have to work FULL TIME until 80s I'd rather be euthanized. Unless someone really loves their job to the point of passion, or they work some easy hobby job part time for social interaction nobody in their right mind aspires to be a wage slave till the day they drop dead with limited vacation time, living for a weekend, and having to answer to bosses and clients all day long majority of your day. F this.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I'm sure the idea is that we will be able to get the labour we need when we need it? Where is labour going to come from? Some will say Asia and Africa. I'm not convinced south east Asia will be the solution.
.

Pretty sure there is no coming labour shortage. Optimus robots, AI agents, self driving cars and trucks, all put to use globally. Of course, so far, none of those pay taxes but governments tend towards continued existence so that’s likely to change.

Anonymous wrote:Explain to me like I am 5...How will we keep growing with an aging population?

Retired people save more than they spend. If savings rate go up, aren't interested rates going to go up as well?

Of course the US is very different from Japan, Germany and Italy.

But I am trying to understand how are going to keep growing with an aging population?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My personal thought is that people are going to work longer if they are healthy enough.

A lot of the retirees/forced-out older managers and execs from my F500 company seem to not fully retire. Even re-emerge with new full-time corporate jobs after a few years off.

My grandpa retired from a corporation at 65 and lived to be 94. He easily could have worked until 80-85.

If economics change in ways that make it useful or necessary for retiree age people to work, it will happen.

If it's expected that I have to work FULL TIME until 80s I'd rather be euthanized. Unless someone really loves their job to the point of passion, or they work some easy hobby job part time for social interaction nobody in their right mind aspires to be a wage slave till the day they drop dead with limited vacation time, living for a weekend, and having to answer to bosses and clients all day long majority of your day. F this.

I think if you sell this idea to young people that they have to work full time jobs they already loathe in their 20s for the rest of their lives you might get a huge uprising on your hands

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My personal thought is that people are going to work longer if they are healthy enough.

A lot of the retirees/forced-out older managers and execs from my F500 company seem to not fully retire. Even re-emerge with new full-time corporate jobs after a few years off.

My grandpa retired from a corporation at 65 and lived to be 94. He easily could have worked until 80-85.

If economics change in ways that make it useful or necessary for retiree age people to work, it will happen.

In order for this to be a viable solution, you need older people to be healthier than they are. It's one thing for a wealthy white guy to work until he's 80 after decades of excellent healthcare in corporate jobs, and not doing hard labor. This is not the case for the vast majority of elderly people, who have disabilities that prevent them from doing a lot of even low-impact jobs. And it does nothing to solve the problem of a shortage in workers for physically demanding jobs in essential industries like agriculture, construction, infrastructure and maintenance, and healthcare. Heck, a significant number of the jobs in healthcare we need to fill are needed to care for the disabled elderly population. Sorry but there are no 80 yr olds who are going to take jobs as health aides whose whole job is help 80 yr olds.

I think if you've only ever known UMC and UC people working cushy white collar jobs, you may not understand how this really works. But who cleaned your granpa's house? Who mowed his lawn? Who *build* his house? Who built the roads he drove on? Who taught his kids to read? Who took his blood pressure at the doctor's office?

Think. We aren't facing a shortage of corporate executives here.

PP. You are being unnecessarily insulting. There are quite a lot of middle-class white collar workers. And pensions are going away so people don't get the automatic income they used to.

Regarding your rhetorical questions. My grandpa didn't move between the ages of about 50 and 94. He mowed his own lawn using a lawn tractor. And did a lot of home maintenance himself.

I have another relative, not so fancy but a bit of a layabout, who went to work as a care provider at an old folks home in his late 60s/early 70s because he still needed to earn some social security credits at that advanced age. He was able to perform that work.

I've run across a lot of older physicians lately. Meaning boomer-ish who look like they could retire if they want to (60s plus).

My elderly parents just had their chimney rebuilt and the main mason looked extremely old. But he was spry and did a good job. He had a younger man with him. Older people can retain a lot of muscle and dexterity if they are active their whole lives.

My kids have a sub at their school that is extremely old from their perspective. Possibly in her 80s. A famously-beloved elementary teacher just retired after 50! years of service. So she was at least 72.

My point is that people will come back into jobs if they need or want the money. No, they can't do every job.

Heck, I myself am wondering if when I'm old if I could be a nanny to a professional family. It seems like being a grandma babysitter could be worth at least $40K a year or more to a highly-compensated professional couple. "Household managers" even more.

It's not just UMC people's jobs that could continue to be done.

The concept of retirement was invented. It's not entirely natural.

No, you aren't getting it. We are facing a worker shortage and that worker shortage is NOT in white collar jobs. We have essential, blue collar jobs that it will become increasingly hard to find people to do because they need to be done by young, able-bodied people. We are not going to solve this problem by people working in their 70s and 80s because there will never be enough 70 and 80 year olds capable of working construction and doing nursing to make society function properly.

I'm glad that you don't feel like you need to retire. That's a you-specific issue though. I'm talking about middle and working class people who work the kind of jobs you physically cannot do past age 55 or 60, and the fact that we are not having enough babies or bringing in enough immigrants to do those jobs. You are being myopic in thinking this is about you and your family and your peer group. It's not. It's about society as a whole and society needs young, healthy workers to do a lot of stuff.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My personal thought is that people are going to work longer if they are healthy enough.

A lot of the retirees/forced-out older managers and execs from my F500 company seem to not fully retire. Even re-emerge with new full-time corporate jobs after a few years off.

My grandpa retired from a corporation at 65 and lived to be 94. He easily could have worked until 80-85.

If economics change in ways that make it useful or necessary for retiree age people to work, it will happen.

If it's expected that I have to work FULL TIME until 80s I'd rather be euthanized. Unless someone really loves their job to the point of passion, or they work some easy hobby job part time for social interaction nobody in their right mind aspires to be a wage slave till the day they drop dead with limited vacation time, living for a weekend, and having to answer to bosses and clients all day long majority of your day. F this.

Anonymous wrote:Well immigration *was* the answer

Anonymous wrote:My personal thought is that people are going to work longer if they are healthy enough.

A lot of the retirees/forced-out older managers and execs from my F500 company seem to not fully retire. Even re-emerge with new full-time corporate jobs after a few years off.

My grandpa retired from a corporation at 65 and lived to be 94. He easily could have worked until 80-85.

If economics change in ways that make it useful or necessary for retiree age people to work, it will happen.

Retired people save more than they spend. If savings rate go up, aren't interested rates going to go up as well?

Anonymous wrote:Explain to me like I am 5...How will we keep growing with an aging population?

Retired people save more than they spend. If savings rate go up, aren't interested rates going to go up as well?

Of course the US is very different from Japan, Germany and Italy.

But I am trying to understand how are going to keep growing with an aging population?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My personal thought is that people are going to work longer if they are healthy enough.

A lot of the retirees/forced-out older managers and execs from my F500 company seem to not fully retire. Even re-emerge with new full-time corporate jobs after a few years off.

My grandpa retired from a corporation at 65 and lived to be 94. He easily could have worked until 80-85.

If economics change in ways that make it useful or necessary for retiree age people to work, it will happen.

In order for this to be a viable solution, you need older people to be healthier than they are. It's one thing for a wealthy white guy to work until he's 80 after decades of excellent healthcare in corporate jobs, and not doing hard labor. This is not the case for the vast majority of elderly people, who have disabilities that prevent them from doing a lot of even low-impact jobs. And it does nothing to solve the problem of a shortage in workers for physically demanding jobs in essential industries like agriculture, construction, infrastructure and maintenance, and healthcare. Heck, a significant number of the jobs in healthcare we need to fill are needed to care for the disabled elderly population. Sorry but there are no 80 yr olds who are going to take jobs as health aides whose whole job is help 80 yr olds.

I think if you've only ever known UMC and UC people working cushy white collar jobs, you may not understand how this really works. But who cleaned your granpa's house? Who mowed his lawn? Who *build* his house? Who built the roads he drove on? Who taught his kids to read? Who took his blood pressure at the doctor's office?

Think. We aren't facing a shortage of corporate executives here.

PP. You are being unnecessarily insulting. There are quite a lot of middle-class white collar workers. And pensions are going away so people don't get the automatic income they used to.

Regarding your rhetorical questions. My grandpa didn't move between the ages of about 50 and 94. He mowed his own lawn using a lawn tractor. And did a lot of home maintenance himself.

I have another relative, not so fancy but a bit of a layabout, who went to work as a care provider at an old folks home in his late 60s/early 70s because he still needed to earn some social security credits at that advanced age. He was able to perform that work.

I've run across a lot of older physicians lately. Meaning boomer-ish who look like they could retire if they want to (60s plus).

My elderly parents just had their chimney rebuilt and the main mason looked extremely old. But he was spry and did a good job. He had a younger man with him. Older people can retain a lot of muscle and dexterity if they are active their whole lives.

My kids have a sub at their school that is extremely old from their perspective. Possibly in her 80s. A famously-beloved elementary teacher just retired after 50! years of service. So she was at least 72.

My point is that people will come back into jobs if they need or want the money. No, they can't do every job.

Heck, I myself am wondering if when I'm old if I could be a nanny to a professional family. It seems like being a grandma babysitter could be worth at least $40K a year or more to a highly-compensated professional couple. "Household managers" even more.

It's not just UMC people's jobs that could continue to be done.

The concept of retirement was invented. It's not entirely natural.

No one wants your old butt as a nanny or house manager
Who the hell will be able to afford either once republicans are done killing jobs and the economy??

I disagree. It's quite hard in my area to find a reliable, highly-educated, legally-here young woman with full-day availability whom you would trust to drive your kids around town. And currently older people don't need to bother because they have pensions and Social Security. Or veterans' benefits. My grandma's senior living community was full of Silent Generation and Boomer people who were supporting themselves mainly with those kind of payments. But Gen-X doesn't often have that setup.

No matter what, there are always rich people. Rich Republicans will ensure that rich Republicans remain. No matter how hard you culminate. There are still rich people in Europe and Japan.