Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s basically a guarantee that the true top kids shooting for HYPSM will continue to apply EA, not ED. But in the current environment, where so many kids want a big school experience, it’s plausible to me that Michigan will steal ED market share from schools like Penn, Cornell, Northwestern, and Duke. To parents prepared to pay those private-school prices, Michigan would look like a bargain. And those kids often come from private schools or affluent neighborhoods where they are under pretty intense pressure to “play their ED card” somewhere. Now they can apply ED to Michigan.

Make sure you talk to current students. I know a lot of unhappy, freshman (academically) with very large classes with lack of access to their advisors. Everyone says it gets better by junior and senior year but that’s a long time away. And socially, much more competitive than people expected

I went to a competitive large state school. Many fresh/soph year classes don’t need to be intimate. It teaches students how to seek access to TA’s and others if needed. Students are still being taught by top profs - there is just less hand-holding. It’s not for everyone but I think great lessons are learned that prepare students for the real world

There’s just no attempt to try and get your kid into classes that are relevant for their interests or their major.

I compare that to a private T10 that my kid chose over Michigan where the advisor checks in individually with my kid every few weeks. By email. Also sends new program ideas their way along with interesting new opportunities to access professors (whether through official programming, small group dinners or otherwise). It is night and day difference.

This is 100% untrue. Either we have a sockpuppet here, a person with a bone to pick or sometime hoping to scare people away for their own benefit.

No, that was me. I don't have a bone to pick. Simmer down.

Ask people in your circle who are freshmen. Ask about their classes and the waitlists, and what classes they ended up in. I'd expect it in-state at my flagship for a fraction of the cost, but if you are paying full freight OOS I'd think they'd make a better attempt to get you into your first three choices.

There are a lot of reasons to choose Michigan - but go in with eyes wide open on the class selection.

Anonymous wrote:Feel free to ask me about how my OOS kid is doing there.

Housing - The kids who didn't get housing until right before school came from the waitlist later on. Everyone who was accepted during the regular time frame had housing. This is not uncommon with waitlists. We heard about it happening at other schools. There is some space for sophomores on campus (one dorm is primaly sophomore) and a new building is openning up before next year making more space for sophomore. Many kids want to live in apartments, however, so this shouldn't be a huge issue.

Classes - My freshman is in all their first choice classes and all related to their major or other requirements. They've met with their advisor several times and have a plan and a backup plan for next semester. The only super large class they have has a discussion section and it's fine.

Socially - They are doing great! They have friends from MI, NJ, NY, Cali and even have met some other VA kids. They have a great group of peers and haven't encountered snobbery or competitiveness. Note, they are not in Ross. They found it easy to join clubs and have been having a great time. Ann Arbor is a great place to be at 18!

Agree with this. My DC got his preferred/requested classes every time. It helped that he had a year of AP credit which gave him sophomore status after the first semester but no problems getting classes. Some large classes freshman year but all with small discussion groups. Many small classes junior/senior year.

DC was admitted EA since it was before the ED option. Since someone mentioned Wash U, DC picked Michigan over Wash U, among others (although financial aid not a factor).

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s basically a guarantee that the true top kids shooting for HYPSM will continue to apply EA, not ED. But in the current environment, where so many kids want a big school experience, it’s plausible to me that Michigan will steal ED market share from schools like Penn, Cornell, Northwestern, and Duke. To parents prepared to pay those private-school prices, Michigan would look like a bargain. And those kids often come from private schools or affluent neighborhoods where they are under pretty intense pressure to “play their ED card” somewhere. Now they can apply ED to Michigan.

Make sure you talk to current students. I know a lot of unhappy, freshman (academically) with very large classes with lack of access to their advisors. Everyone says it gets better by junior and senior year but that’s a long time away. And socially, much more competitive than people expected

I went to a competitive large state school. Many fresh/soph year classes don’t need to be intimate. It teaches students how to seek access to TA’s and others if needed. Students are still being taught by top profs - there is just less hand-holding. It’s not for everyone but I think great lessons are learned that prepare students for the real world

There’s just no attempt to try and get your kid into classes that are relevant for their interests or their major.

I compare that to a private T10 that my kid chose over Michigan where the advisor checks in individually with my kid every few weeks. By email. Also sends new program ideas their way along with interesting new opportunities to access professors (whether through official programming, small group dinners or otherwise). It is night and day difference.

Yes, if you go to a small private school, then you get a more curated experience. That is what the PP was saying, hence the "no hand holding" comment. The state schools force kids to sink or swim and advocate for themselves. It is more of a real world experience than the curated experience. It doesn't make it better or worse, just different. But for a lot of students, particularly those coming from small private schools, that big school experience is what they want, and Michigan (in addition to a few others) are unique in being top academically and with a cult-like school spirit.

But if it's the same cost? Why would you voluntarily sign up for the lack of resources for the same $$$?

Kids who don't do well with sink or swim might have a problem. For those that do, however, the self-advocacy they get to practice prepares them well for life after college where no one is holding their hand. That is just as important as what is learned in the classroom.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s basically a guarantee that the true top kids shooting for HYPSM will continue to apply EA, not ED. But in the current environment, where so many kids want a big school experience, it’s plausible to me that Michigan will steal ED market share from schools like Penn, Cornell, Northwestern, and Duke. To parents prepared to pay those private-school prices, Michigan would look like a bargain. And those kids often come from private schools or affluent neighborhoods where they are under pretty intense pressure to “play their ED card” somewhere. Now they can apply ED to Michigan.

Make sure you talk to current students. I know a lot of unhappy, freshman (academically) with very large classes with lack of access to their advisors. Everyone says it gets better by junior and senior year but that’s a long time away. And socially, much more competitive than people expected

Yes, I could have written this. My child's friends at Michigan are in massive classes (300-500+) and could not get any class remotely of their choosing for the fall. And the social scene is rough--lots of money and snobbery from NJ and NY and hard to find your people if you don't luck out by who is on your dorm hall. My daughter's friends who are struggling the most socially of any college are both at Michigan. You can't tell from their Instagrams (they all depict them in super happy friend groups at football games) but both are really lonely.

Why people pay private rates for a public school experience I will never understand. Luckily my own DC has zero interest in football or rah-rah large schools. It’s obviously up to them, but my dream would be for my DC to attend a SLAC where most classes have 20 or fewer students, taught by professors, and the focus of the entire school is on the undergraduates.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s basically a guarantee that the true top kids shooting for HYPSM will continue to apply EA, not ED. But in the current environment, where so many kids want a big school experience, it’s plausible to me that Michigan will steal ED market share from schools like Penn, Cornell, Northwestern, and Duke. To parents prepared to pay those private-school prices, Michigan would look like a bargain. And those kids often come from private schools or affluent neighborhoods where they are under pretty intense pressure to “play their ED card” somewhere. Now they can apply ED to Michigan.

Make sure you talk to current students. I know a lot of unhappy, freshman (academically) with very large classes with lack of access to their advisors. Everyone says it gets better by junior and senior year but that’s a long time away. And socially, much more competitive than people expected

I went to a competitive large state school. Many fresh/soph year classes don’t need to be intimate. It teaches students how to seek access to TA’s and others if needed. Students are still being taught by top profs - there is just less hand-holding. It’s not for everyone but I think great lessons are learned that prepare students for the real world

There’s just no attempt to try and get your kid into classes that are relevant for their interests or their major.

I compare that to a private T10 that my kid chose over Michigan where the advisor checks in individually with my kid every few weeks. By email. Also sends new program ideas their way along with interesting new opportunities to access professors (whether through official programming, small group dinners or otherwise). It is night and day difference.

This is 100% untrue. Either we have a sockpuppet here, a person with a bone to pick or sometime hoping to scare people away for their own benefit.

Feel free to ask me about how my OOS kid is doing there.

Housing - The kids who didn't get housing until right before school came from the waitlist later on. Everyone who was accepted during the regular time frame had housing. This is not uncommon with waitlists. We heard about it happening at other schools. There is some space for sophomores on campus (one dorm is primaly sophomore) and a new building is openning up before next year making more space for sophomore. Many kids want to live in apartments, however, so this shouldn't be a huge issue.

Classes - My freshman is in all their first choice classes and all related to their major or other requirements. They've met with their advisor several times and have a plan and a backup plan for next semester. The only super large class they have has a discussion section and it's fine.

Socially - They are doing great! They have friends from MI, NJ, NY, Cali and even have met some other VA kids. They have a great group of peers and haven't encountered snobbery or competitiveness. Note, they are not in Ross. They found it easy to join clubs and have been having a great time. Ann Arbor is a great place to be at 18!

Anonymous wrote:You can still break ED for inadequate FA, even if it matches the NPC. They can’t force you to enroll and bill your parents, lol! The penalty is that you’ve wasted your ED card, nothing more.

What a selfish assh*le. The penalty could be your child's HS counselor getting pissed and refusing to upload their December mid-year report to all their RD schools, preventing them from getting accepted to those who want to see mid-year reports. Or the ED school pulling a Tulane on your high school, making your child the hated kid on campus.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s basically a guarantee that the true top kids shooting for HYPSM will continue to apply EA, not ED. But in the current environment, where so many kids want a big school experience, it’s plausible to me that Michigan will steal ED market share from schools like Penn, Cornell, Northwestern, and Duke. To parents prepared to pay those private-school prices, Michigan would look like a bargain. And those kids often come from private schools or affluent neighborhoods where they are under pretty intense pressure to “play their ED card” somewhere. Now they can apply ED to Michigan.

Make sure you talk to current students. I know a lot of unhappy, freshman (academically) with very large classes with lack of access to their advisors. Everyone says it gets better by junior and senior year but that’s a long time away. And socially, much more competitive than people expected

Yes, I could have written this. My child's friends at Michigan are in massive classes (300-500+) and could not get any class remotely of their choosing for the fall. And the social scene is rough--lots of money and snobbery from NJ and NY and hard to find your people if you don't luck out by who is on your dorm hall. My daughter's friends who are struggling the most socially of any college are both at Michigan. You can't tell from their Instagrams (they all depict them in super happy friend groups at football games) but both are really lonely.

Tell them to make friends with in-state kids and stop bragging about their SAT scores. This is a half-serious suggestion. Michigan is a bit behind on the SAT stress/prep grind. I never hear people talking about superscoring, etc. It's pretty rare even for kids to take a high quality prep class. Kicking it 1980s style where you do the official sample test and that's it. That probably seems unbelievable to you, but that's my experience as an in-state parent in a district that's probably equivalent to a mid-tier MCPS high school. Next door to the equivalent of "W schools".

You have to be early to register and work the waitlists and have the perspective that across four semesters you will get all the classes you are supposed to get in those four semesters. My kid has gotten off every waitlist he was on. Therefore, I can say that in 3rd semester, he's gotten every class he wanted to take within those semesters. He also had at least 3 tiny intro/freshman targeted classes in freshman year. And what was the point of taking all those APs, if you're not moving on to next-level electives and special topics?

To me as a flagship grad, there's no difference in auditorium classes once they get beyond the size where the professor calls directly upon you by name. Maybe 75 or so? My experience in big classes was always pretty good. If I wanted to know/be known by the professor, I just sat up front and said hi and went to office hours. That works. Professors are usually open to getting to know students. But they won't chase you down. You have to show the interest.

I'm going to be even more daring and suggest they ask people to get coffee or study together. I think kids are still a bit stunted socially by Covid, etc. They don't seem to do spontaneous invites with semi-strangers like I remember from my day.

There are a ton of ECs, and I would suggest looking into them. One that I think looks really neat is a pop music orchestra ensemble. The a capella groups also have a lot of family feel. Before choosing a school, have a plan for what groups might work best so you can quickly activate it. I met my spouse in a flagship EC.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Since Michigan admits a huge percentage of its student body with low SAT scores- almost half of all students have an SAT score below 1350. This is from their common data set which shows the 25% at 1360.
https://obp.umich.edu/wp-content/uploads/pubdata/cds/CDS_2024-25_UMAA.pdf

But since UMichigan is test optional, only half submit an SAT score. Obviously if you score higher than 1400 you would submit.

So any ED candidate with an SAT above 1400 is pretty much an auto admit.

Half? Do you know what 25th percentile even means?

Yes, since half don't even bother to submit. 25% have below that. But only half submit.

NP. 51% submit SAT, 18% submit ACT. Setting aside overlap, that would be 69% submitting scores.

I didn't see the score in question that kicked off this side discussion, but would generally lean in the direction of submitting anything low 1300s and up.

So any ED candidate with an SAT above 1400 is pretty much an auto admit.

No, it is unlikely that scores weigh so heavily in the decision. Scores will not compensate for low grades, for example, even in ED. Low is subjective, though, and I'm guessing, based on last year's tiktok guy comments, that "low" for UMich would be under 3.6.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Since Michigan admits a huge percentage of its student body with low SAT scores- almost half of all students have an SAT score below 1350. This is from their common data set which shows the 25% at 1360.
https://obp.umich.edu/wp-content/uploads/pubdata/cds/CDS_2024-25_UMAA.pdf

But since UMichigan is test optional, only half submit an SAT score. Obviously if you score higher than 1400 you would submit.

So any ED candidate with an SAT above 1400 is pretty much an auto admit.

Half? Do you know what 25th percentile even means?

Yes, since half don't even bother to submit. 25% have below that. But only half submit.

Anonymous wrote:Since Michigan admits a huge percentage of its student body with low SAT scores- almost half of all students have an SAT score below 1350. This is from their common data set which shows the 25% at 1360.
https://obp.umich.edu/wp-content/uploads/pubdata/cds/CDS_2024-25_UMAA.pdf

But since UMichigan is test optional, only half submit an SAT score. Obviously if you score higher than 1400 you would submit.

So any ED candidate with an SAT above 1400 is pretty much an auto admit.

Half? Do you know what 25th percentile even means?

Anonymous wrote:My friend has a child at Yorktown and they were told that there are 70+ kids who have ED'd to Michigan.

Maybe it’s 17...?

Anonymous wrote:My friend has a child at Yorktown and they were told that there are 70+ kids who have ED'd to Michigan.

There is no way this is true. Perhaps ED to UVA. Only 58 students from YHS even APPLIED to Michigan last year altogether. Whomever told your kid this was wrong.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s basically a guarantee that the true top kids shooting for HYPSM will continue to apply EA, not ED. But in the current environment, where so many kids want a big school experience, it’s plausible to me that Michigan will steal ED market share from schools like Penn, Cornell, Northwestern, and Duke. To parents prepared to pay those private-school prices, Michigan would look like a bargain. And those kids often come from private schools or affluent neighborhoods where they are under pretty intense pressure to “play their ED card” somewhere. Now they can apply ED to Michigan.

I can see it taking Cornell or Northwestern share, but Penn/Duke are seen as a cut above. I have seen plenty of cases of students turning down Cornell/NW for a variety of reasons however

Michigan/Cornell/Penn/Northwestern do have a lot in common as far as academic offerings. I applied to 3 of these for MBA school.

Michigan and Cornell interact for Engineering, which has substantial enrollment at both schools. My sibling attended one for undergrad and one for grad. Michigan is viewed as difficult enough but more fun.

I'd say that Penn is more of an outlier among these 4, especially due to its urban campus location.

Northwestern and Michigan interact among Midwest kids (non-DMV markets).

I actually think people would have an ED preference for those other schools that would be durable. Mainly based on geographic preference or characteristics of the major they want. I think ED is going to come from the Michigan legacies (because legacy currently has zero weight), the sports fan types, in-staters who want to ensure they get in early and can't be bought off by a big scholarship elsewhere, etc.