Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How many ECs do kids have to list? My daughter barely has time to do much outside of her rowing, where she's devoting 3+ hours a day year-around. Is she really expected to hold down jobs or be a president of a club that has impact? This is a little scary.

I know someone who does crew. Very few other ECs due to time commitment for rowing.

+1
I have a kid who spent 25-30 hours per week, all year long competing in niche sport while attending their local public school. They have no activities to put down aside from being an occasional club member. No leadership roles, no jobs. They let their passion consume everything and they are looking back with regret.

Activities are much less of a big deal than most applicants think - unless the student is going to compete in college. The activities section is way down the list of what is important. In any case, AOs prefer depth over a large number of activities.
-college counselor

This may be true at non-T25 spots, but where I am a reader, it's the 2nd thing we look at it. It's how to frame all the kids who look EXACTLY the same from a high school. It's actually one of the first ways to stand out. Even before the essays. Do something other people aren't doing and do it well/deeply.

So, I disagree that it's not important. It is important, if only to show your passion, why you do it. I think people over-rotate on the same 10-15 activities: no one cares about your debate or your Varsity soccer or your DECA. Especially because most kids just sign up to these clubs because they feel they have to. They don't really care deeply about any of it.

Better to be an EMT. A blacksmith. Restoring vintage baseball paraphernalia. Even tinkering with old watches. Or an artist restoring traditional textiles and artifacts.

Look to see how a school treats "Extracurricular Activities and "Talent/Ability" on the CDS. If they say, "Very Important" - it means they absolutely look at it (and often before "Important" or "Considered" - like Class Rank, GPA, Recommendations, Application Essay or Test Scores) - and maybe look at it early.

UChicago CDS: https://bpb-us-w2.wpmucdn.com/voices.uchicago.edu/dist/8/2077/files/2025/08/CDS_2024-2025_to_publish.pdf
Vanderbilt CDS: https://www.vanderbilt.edu/dsa/common-data-set/
Duke CDS: https://provost.duke.edu/sites/default/files/CDS-2023-24-FINAL.pdf
Northwestern CDS: https://www.enrollment.northwestern.edu/data/2024-2025.pdf
WashU CDS: https://washu.edu/app/uploads/2025/06/2024-2025-WashU-CDS.pdf

As a parent, this dismays me. I know several kids who are EMTs and, while worthwhile work and a lot of time, the kids admit they did this activity bc they didn’t win leadership races or simply for college apps. I am not saying there aren’t kids out there who have a passion for medicine but why penalize the kids who are working equal or more hours at their high schools as varsity soccer captain or debate team president, to use your examples? They are figuring out how to directly contribute to their most immediate community, they often commit more or equal time as your mentioned examples and were actually elected or chosen (as opposed to EMT where the bar to entry is finding time to do the activity or, even more, a hobby?

I personally think this related to why college student bodies seem unhappy - bc they have been taught to be performative or supposedly know what they want to do for the rest of their lives. Is it really better to have a blacksmith or a watch repairman than a school newspaper editor simply bc every school has a newspaper?

It is so strange.

I just want to throw out there that being an EMT isn’t easy. Lots of academic work/testing plus ride alongs, etc. I get why this one is impressive. Plus, the kids see a lot of things that makes them mature, calm under pressure, etc. My 20 year old is an EMT and the things he has seen and treated would blow your mind.

My kid was one in HS. It also has a lot of downtime.

Of course it does. But I am just saying that even though it is a different type of activity than newspaper editor, it still is teaching kids skills and is a valuable activity if your kid is interested. Not that one is better than the other. PP was dismissing it as a weak EC. I disagree.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How many ECs do kids have to list? My daughter barely has time to do much outside of her rowing, where she's devoting 3+ hours a day year-around. Is she really expected to hold down jobs or be a president of a club that has impact? This is a little scary.

I know someone who does crew. Very few other ECs due to time commitment for rowing.

+1
I have a kid who spent 25-30 hours per week, all year long competing in niche sport while attending their local public school. They have no activities to put down aside from being an occasional club member. No leadership roles, no jobs. They let their passion consume everything and they are looking back with regret.

Activities are much less of a big deal than most applicants think - unless the student is going to compete in college. The activities section is way down the list of what is important. In any case, AOs prefer depth over a large number of activities.
-college counselor

This may be true at non-T25 spots, but where I am a reader, it's the 2nd thing we look at it. It's how to frame all the kids who look EXACTLY the same from a high school. It's actually one of the first ways to stand out. Even before the essays. Do something other people aren't doing and do it well/deeply.

So, I disagree that it's not important. It is important, if only to show your passion, why you do it. I think people over-rotate on the same 10-15 activities: no one cares about your debate or your Varsity soccer or your DECA. Especially because most kids just sign up to these clubs because they feel they have to. They don't really care deeply about any of it.

Better to be an EMT. A blacksmith. Restoring vintage baseball paraphernalia. Even tinkering with old watches. Or an artist restoring traditional textiles and artifacts.

Look to see how a school treats "Extracurricular Activities and "Talent/Ability" on the CDS. If they say, "Very Important" - it means they absolutely look at it (and often before "Important" or "Considered" - like Class Rank, GPA, Recommendations, Application Essay or Test Scores) - and maybe look at it early.

UChicago CDS: https://bpb-us-w2.wpmucdn.com/voices.uchicago.edu/dist/8/2077/files/2025/08/CDS_2024-2025_to_publish.pdf
Vanderbilt CDS: https://www.vanderbilt.edu/dsa/common-data-set/
Duke CDS: https://provost.duke.edu/sites/default/files/CDS-2023-24-FINAL.pdf
Northwestern CDS: https://www.enrollment.northwestern.edu/data/2024-2025.pdf
WashU CDS: https://washu.edu/app/uploads/2025/06/2024-2025-WashU-CDS.pdf

As a parent, this dismays me. I know several kids who are EMTs and, while worthwhile work and a lot of time, the kids admit they did this activity bc they didn’t win leadership races or simply for college apps. I am not saying there aren’t kids out there who have a passion for medicine but why penalize the kids who are working equal or more hours at their high schools as varsity soccer captain or debate team president, to use your examples? They are figuring out how to directly contribute to their most immediate community, they often commit more or equal time as your mentioned examples and were actually elected or chosen (as opposed to EMT where the bar to entry is finding time to do the activity or, even more, a hobby?

I personally think this related to why college student bodies seem unhappy - bc they have been taught to be performative or supposedly know what they want to do for the rest of their lives. Is it really better to have a blacksmith or a watch repairman than a school newspaper editor simply bc every school has a newspaper?

It is so strange.

I just want to throw out there that being an EMT isn’t easy. Lots of academic work/testing plus ride alongs, etc. I get why this one is impressive. Plus, the kids see a lot of things that makes them mature, calm under pressure, etc. My 20 year old is an EMT and the things he has seen and treated would blow your mind.

My kid was one in HS. It also has a lot of downtime.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How many ECs do kids have to list? My daughter barely has time to do much outside of her rowing, where she's devoting 3+ hours a day year-around. Is she really expected to hold down jobs or be a president of a club that has impact? This is a little scary.

I know someone who does crew. Very few other ECs due to time commitment for rowing.

+1
I have a kid who spent 25-30 hours per week, all year long competing in niche sport while attending their local public school. They have no activities to put down aside from being an occasional club member. No leadership roles, no jobs. They let their passion consume everything and they are looking back with regret.

Activities are much less of a big deal than most applicants think - unless the student is going to compete in college. The activities section is way down the list of what is important. In any case, AOs prefer depth over a large number of activities.
-college counselor

This may be true at non-T25 spots, but where I am a reader, it's the 2nd thing we look at it. It's how to frame all the kids who look EXACTLY the same from a high school. It's actually one of the first ways to stand out. Even before the essays. Do something other people aren't doing and do it well/deeply.

So, I disagree that it's not important. It is important, if only to show your passion, why you do it. I think people over-rotate on the same 10-15 activities: no one cares about your debate or your Varsity soccer or your DECA. Especially because most kids just sign up to these clubs because they feel they have to. They don't really care deeply about any of it.

Better to be an EMT. A blacksmith. Restoring vintage baseball paraphernalia. Even tinkering with old watches. Or an artist restoring traditional textiles and artifacts.

Look to see how a school treats "Extracurricular Activities and "Talent/Ability" on the CDS. If they say, "Very Important" - it means they absolutely look at it (and often before "Important" or "Considered" - like Class Rank, GPA, Recommendations, Application Essay or Test Scores) - and maybe look at it early.

UChicago CDS: https://bpb-us-w2.wpmucdn.com/voices.uchicago.edu/dist/8/2077/files/2025/08/CDS_2024-2025_to_publish.pdf
Vanderbilt CDS: https://www.vanderbilt.edu/dsa/common-data-set/
Duke CDS: https://provost.duke.edu/sites/default/files/CDS-2023-24-FINAL.pdf
Northwestern CDS: https://www.enrollment.northwestern.edu/data/2024-2025.pdf
WashU CDS: https://washu.edu/app/uploads/2025/06/2024-2025-WashU-CDS.pdf

As a parent, this dismays me. I know several kids who are EMTs and, while worthwhile work and a lot of time, the kids admit they did this activity bc they didn’t win leadership races or simply for college apps. I am not saying there aren’t kids out there who have a passion for medicine but why penalize the kids who are working equal or more hours at their high schools as varsity soccer captain or debate team president, to use your examples? They are figuring out how to directly contribute to their most immediate community, they often commit more or equal time as your mentioned examples and were actually elected or chosen (as opposed to EMT where the bar to entry is finding time to do the activity or, even more, a hobby?

I personally think this related to why college student bodies seem unhappy - bc they have been taught to be performative or supposedly know what they want to do for the rest of their lives. Is it really better to have a blacksmith or a watch repairman than a school newspaper editor simply bc every school has a newspaper?

It is so strange.

I just want to throw out there that being an EMT isn’t easy. Lots of academic work/testing plus ride alongs, etc. I get why this one is impressive. Plus, the kids see a lot of things that makes them mature, calm under pressure, etc. My 20 year old is an EMT and the things he has seen and treated would blow your mind.

This is all absurd and why we have told our straight A, 12 APs, 1520 daughter all through high school that the goal is not to get into even a top 50 school. These are kids. Sure, some have found a passion, but most have not. If they claim to have, they are making it up. While having this singular passion may sound good for college admission counselors, forcing one is to the detriment of their development.

I hire recent college grads for a large corporation. We want them well rounded so that they can apply things to the real world.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How many ECs do kids have to list? My daughter barely has time to do much outside of her rowing, where she's devoting 3+ hours a day year-around. Is she really expected to hold down jobs or be a president of a club that has impact? This is a little scary.

I know someone who does crew. Very few other ECs due to time commitment for rowing.

+1
I have a kid who spent 25-30 hours per week, all year long competing in niche sport while attending their local public school. They have no activities to put down aside from being an occasional club member. No leadership roles, no jobs. They let their passion consume everything and they are looking back with regret.

Activities are much less of a big deal than most applicants think - unless the student is going to compete in college. The activities section is way down the list of what is important. In any case, AOs prefer depth over a large number of activities.
-college counselor

This may be true at non-T25 spots, but where I am a reader, it's the 2nd thing we look at it. It's how to frame all the kids who look EXACTLY the same from a high school. It's actually one of the first ways to stand out. Even before the essays. Do something other people aren't doing and do it well/deeply.

So, I disagree that it's not important. It is important, if only to show your passion, why you do it. I think people over-rotate on the same 10-15 activities: no one cares about your debate or your Varsity soccer or your DECA. Especially because most kids just sign up to these clubs because they feel they have to. They don't really care deeply about any of it.

Better to be an EMT. A blacksmith. Restoring vintage baseball paraphernalia. Even tinkering with old watches. Or an artist restoring traditional textiles and artifacts.

Look to see how a school treats "Extracurricular Activities and "Talent/Ability" on the CDS. If they say, "Very Important" - it means they absolutely look at it (and often before "Important" or "Considered" - like Class Rank, GPA, Recommendations, Application Essay or Test Scores) - and maybe look at it early.

UChicago CDS: https://bpb-us-w2.wpmucdn.com/voices.uchicago.edu/dist/8/2077/files/2025/08/CDS_2024-2025_to_publish.pdf
Vanderbilt CDS: https://www.vanderbilt.edu/dsa/common-data-set/
Duke CDS: https://provost.duke.edu/sites/default/files/CDS-2023-24-FINAL.pdf
Northwestern CDS: https://www.enrollment.northwestern.edu/data/2024-2025.pdf
WashU CDS: https://washu.edu/app/uploads/2025/06/2024-2025-WashU-CDS.pdf

As a parent, this dismays me. I know several kids who are EMTs and, while worthwhile work and a lot of time, the kids admit they did this activity bc they didn’t win leadership races or simply for college apps. I am not saying there aren’t kids out there who have a passion for medicine but why penalize the kids who are working equal or more hours at their high schools as varsity soccer captain or debate team president, to use your examples? They are figuring out how to directly contribute to their most immediate community, they often commit more or equal time as your mentioned examples and were actually elected or chosen (as opposed to EMT where the bar to entry is finding time to do the activity or, even more, a hobby?

I personally think this related to why college student bodies seem unhappy - bc they have been taught to be performative or supposedly know what they want to do for the rest of their lives. Is it really better to have a blacksmith or a watch repairman than a school newspaper editor simply bc every school has a newspaper?

It is so strange.

Car mechanic is the new UMC EC for boys.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How many ECs do kids have to list? My daughter barely has time to do much outside of her rowing, where she's devoting 3+ hours a day year-around. Is she really expected to hold down jobs or be a president of a club that has impact? This is a little scary.

I know someone who does crew. Very few other ECs due to time commitment for rowing.

+1
I have a kid who spent 25-30 hours per week, all year long competing in niche sport while attending their local public school. They have no activities to put down aside from being an occasional club member. No leadership roles, no jobs. They let their passion consume everything and they are looking back with regret.

Activities are much less of a big deal than most applicants think - unless the student is going to compete in college. The activities section is way down the list of what is important. In any case, AOs prefer depth over a large number of activities.
-college counselor

This may be true at non-T25 spots, but where I am a reader, it's the 2nd thing we look at it. It's how to frame all the kids who look EXACTLY the same from a high school. It's actually one of the first ways to stand out. Even before the essays. Do something other people aren't doing and do it well/deeply.

So, I disagree that it's not important. It is important, if only to show your passion, why you do it. I think people over-rotate on the same 10-15 activities: no one cares about your debate or your Varsity soccer or your DECA. Especially because most kids just sign up to these clubs because they feel they have to. They don't really care deeply about any of it.

Better to be an EMT. A blacksmith. Restoring vintage baseball paraphernalia. Even tinkering with old watches. Or an artist restoring traditional textiles and artifacts.

Look to see how a school treats "Extracurricular Activities and "Talent/Ability" on the CDS. If they say, "Very Important" - it means they absolutely look at it (and often before "Important" or "Considered" - like Class Rank, GPA, Recommendations, Application Essay or Test Scores) - and maybe look at it early.

UChicago CDS: https://bpb-us-w2.wpmucdn.com/voices.uchicago.edu/dist/8/2077/files/2025/08/CDS_2024-2025_to_publish.pdf
Vanderbilt CDS: https://www.vanderbilt.edu/dsa/common-data-set/
Duke CDS: https://provost.duke.edu/sites/default/files/CDS-2023-24-FINAL.pdf
Northwestern CDS: https://www.enrollment.northwestern.edu/data/2024-2025.pdf
WashU CDS: https://washu.edu/app/uploads/2025/06/2024-2025-WashU-CDS.pdf

As a parent, this dismays me. I know several kids who are EMTs and, while worthwhile work and a lot of time, the kids admit they did this activity bc they didn’t win leadership races or simply for college apps. I am not saying there aren’t kids out there who have a passion for medicine but why penalize the kids who are working equal or more hours at their high schools as varsity soccer captain or debate team president, to use your examples? They are figuring out how to directly contribute to their most immediate community, they often commit more or equal time as your mentioned examples and were actually elected or chosen (as opposed to EMT where the bar to entry is finding time to do the activity or, even more, a hobby?

I personally think this related to why college student bodies seem unhappy - bc they have been taught to be performative or supposedly know what they want to do for the rest of their lives. Is it really better to have a blacksmith or a watch repairman than a school newspaper editor simply bc every school has a newspaper?

It is so strange.

If you aren't recruited, sports aren't very valuable to an AO. Sure, your kid may play club soccer, but that's not a priority for them.
I think school editors are great - and in demand (esp at places like Northwestern) - except there are so many of them. It becomes a "what else" conundrum. What else will they bring to campus. School editor isn't what it used to be. A kid who combines that with great outside of school impact though might be more impressive. Just a guess.

AOs want a diverse (by academic and EC interests) set of experiences in their admitted class. The kid who tinkers will go to the Maker lab and tinker there (and maybe invent something that makes the school famous). The blacksmith will bring a different set of experiences than another newspaper editor to his engineering classes. The kid with the EMT experience would be helpful to have in rural schools that make that a priority (I know Dartmouth and Cornell do). I do think this is why kids who have long held unique interests/projects (not published papers or anything) just random side hustles, businesses or volunteer experiences - and can speak about them in detail and with personal insight - tend to do well in the app process. They are interesting.

The soccer captain and newspaper editor isn't really all that interesting (on its own). I agree it's sad. But interesting (or unique) is now what gets you in, once you meet all the other thresholds. These AOs want something that they don't see a lot. They think that means its "passion" or "unique" but it's probably all part of a game.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How many ECs do kids have to list? My daughter barely has time to do much outside of her rowing, where she's devoting 3+ hours a day year-around. Is she really expected to hold down jobs or be a president of a club that has impact? This is a little scary.

I know someone who does crew. Very few other ECs due to time commitment for rowing.

+1
I have a kid who spent 25-30 hours per week, all year long competing in niche sport while attending their local public school. They have no activities to put down aside from being an occasional club member. No leadership roles, no jobs. They let their passion consume everything and they are looking back with regret.

Activities are much less of a big deal than most applicants think - unless the student is going to compete in college. The activities section is way down the list of what is important. In any case, AOs prefer depth over a large number of activities.
-college counselor

This may be true at non-T25 spots, but where I am a reader, it's the 2nd thing we look at it. It's how to frame all the kids who look EXACTLY the same from a high school. It's actually one of the first ways to stand out. Even before the essays. Do something other people aren't doing and do it well/deeply.

So, I disagree that it's not important. It is important, if only to show your passion, why you do it. I think people over-rotate on the same 10-15 activities: no one cares about your debate or your Varsity soccer or your DECA. Especially because most kids just sign up to these clubs because they feel they have to. They don't really care deeply about any of it.

Better to be an EMT. A blacksmith. Restoring vintage baseball paraphernalia. Even tinkering with old watches. Or an artist restoring traditional textiles and artifacts.

Look to see how a school treats "Extracurricular Activities and "Talent/Ability" on the CDS. If they say, "Very Important" - it means they absolutely look at it (and often before "Important" or "Considered" - like Class Rank, GPA, Recommendations, Application Essay or Test Scores) - and maybe look at it early.

UChicago CDS: https://bpb-us-w2.wpmucdn.com/voices.uchicago.edu/dist/8/2077/files/2025/08/CDS_2024-2025_to_publish.pdf
Vanderbilt CDS: https://www.vanderbilt.edu/dsa/common-data-set/
Duke CDS: https://provost.duke.edu/sites/default/files/CDS-2023-24-FINAL.pdf
Northwestern CDS: https://www.enrollment.northwestern.edu/data/2024-2025.pdf
WashU CDS: https://washu.edu/app/uploads/2025/06/2024-2025-WashU-CDS.pdf

As a parent, this dismays me. I know several kids who are EMTs and, while worthwhile work and a lot of time, the kids admit they did this activity bc they didn’t win leadership races or simply for college apps. I am not saying there aren’t kids out there who have a passion for medicine but why penalize the kids who are working equal or more hours at their high schools as varsity soccer captain or debate team president, to use your examples? They are figuring out how to directly contribute to their most immediate community, they often commit more or equal time as your mentioned examples and were actually elected or chosen (as opposed to EMT where the bar to entry is finding time to do the activity or, even more, a hobby?

I personally think this related to why college student bodies seem unhappy - bc they have been taught to be performative or supposedly know what they want to do for the rest of their lives. Is it really better to have a blacksmith or a watch repairman than a school newspaper editor simply bc every school has a newspaper?

It is so strange.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^

The details in that blog are the kind of thing you'd pay big $$$ for from a private college counselor. This is how AI/data intermediates that entire industry.

Example:
https://www.collegebase.org/blog/editor-in-chief-of-literary-journal-college-admissions
Yale University's admissions office has specifically cited literary magazine editorship as an example of meaningful leadership in their evaluation criteria.

LOL

This is pretty run of the mill advice that is not even close to what is needed for T20.

I think everyone knows that English major kid would need Kenyon/Iowa Writers/Scholastic Gold, etc. But helpful to know Yale has called the lit editorship out.

Not really. That was a pretty common statement made by AO's for a lot of activities.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^

The details in that blog are the kind of thing you'd pay big $$$ for from a private college counselor. This is how AI/data intermediates that entire industry.

Example:
https://www.collegebase.org/blog/editor-in-chief-of-literary-journal-college-admissions
Yale University's admissions office has specifically cited literary magazine editorship as an example of meaningful leadership in their evaluation criteria.

LOL

This is pretty run of the mill advice that is not even close to what is needed for T20.

I think everyone knows that English major kid would need Kenyon/Iowa Writers/Scholastic Gold, etc. But helpful to know Yale has called the lit editorship out.

Anonymous wrote:^^

The details in that blog are the kind of thing you'd pay big $$$ for from a private college counselor. This is how AI/data intermediates that entire industry.

Example:
https://www.collegebase.org/blog/editor-in-chief-of-literary-journal-college-admissions
Yale University's admissions office has specifically cited literary magazine editorship as an example of meaningful leadership in their evaluation criteria.

LOL

This is pretty run of the mill advice that is not even close to what is needed for T20.

^^

The details in that blog are the kind of thing you'd pay big $$$ for from a private college counselor. This is how AI/data intermediates that entire industry.

Example:
https://www.collegebase.org/blog/editor-in-chief-of-literary-journal-college-admissions
Yale University's admissions office has specifically cited literary magazine editorship as an example of meaningful leadership in their evaluation criteria.