Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was watching another thread where moms were arguing back and forth over athletic recruiting and it seemed like both neither side was talking about what I think is the real question. Why do they place so much value on them? It's not just the top SLACs, (they are very heavy on recruits) but it is the smaller R1s as well. MIT, Chicago, JHU, WashU, Rochester, etc. all recruit a large number of athletes. NYU as well. These[b] schools obviously see great value in athletic recruiting, what are we missing?

It is still too much, but JHU is 10% athletes (Rochester is 9%) while Williams is over a third. In that sense, your R1 analogy falls flat.
https://ope.ed.gov/athletics/#/institution/details

JHU listed 60 men's lacrosse player on ope.ed.gov website.

But if you go to the school's roster:
https://hopkinssports.com/sports/mens-lacrosse/roster
There are 99 players.

It's more than 10% athletes.

JHU is D1 for Lax!

I counted 53 players for JHU. You just looked at the Jersey numbers and assumed they have 99 players...but that's not correct. It's just that they sort the roster in ascending Jersey numbers.

D1 LAX rosters are now set for 48 players. They probably include injured players who won't be on the official roster and/or will cut some players.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was watching another thread where moms were arguing back and forth over athletic recruiting and it seemed like both neither side was talking about what I think is the real question. Why do they place so much value on them? It's not just the top SLACs, (they are very heavy on recruits) but it is the smaller R1s as well. MIT, Chicago, JHU, WashU, Rochester, etc. all recruit a large number of athletes. NYU as well. These[b] schools obviously see great value in athletic recruiting, what are we missing?

It is still too much, but JHU is 10% athletes (Rochester is 9%) while Williams is over a third. In that sense, your R1 analogy falls flat.
https://ope.ed.gov/athletics/#/institution/details

JHU listed 60 men's lacrosse player on ope.ed.gov website.

But if you go to the school's roster:
https://hopkinssports.com/sports/mens-lacrosse/roster
There are 99 players.

It's more than 10% athletes.

JHU is D1 for Lax!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What would happen to a school like Hamilton if it dropped out of the NESCAC? In a generation it would have “really fallen off” and in two generations it would be lost in the academic wilderness.

Or what if Cornell dropped out of the Ivy League and U Rochester joined? It sounds preposterous, but what would these two schools look like in 50 or 75 years?

These school know they need to remain in their athletic leagues to remain as relevant as they are today. Thus they need to recruit
athletes that will keep them competitive in their conference. Many, many of these kids being recruited are exceptional students and they get priority in admissions because they offer something to the school beyond their grades and test scores. It’s a case of “and” not “or” for the most part. Yes there is the occasional football player with the 1250 SAT but that is the extreme exception.

And the ancient Greeks agreed with the American model. The mind and intellectual pursuit was inseparable from the body and the athletic.

Um, the ancient Greeks also had slaves. If they are truly exceptional, they would not — as you euphemistically describe for an entirely different admissions process — need “priority” in admissions now, would they?

Seriously, what would happen to Cornell or Hamilton in say 50 years if they dropped out of their conferences tomorrow? How would their endowment be doing? Athletics and their conferences are arguably their lifeblood. If U Rochester took Cornell’s place, imagine the windfall.

What a simple world in which your mind lives…

Oh please enlighten us (rather than just showing us the person you are)

Anonymous wrote:I think for the SLACs, it helps bring in men. Especially straight non artsy ones. And full pay families who want their son to play college lacrosse.

Well that’s poor reasoning when they have multiples of non athlete male applicants and their male applicant acceptance rates are still competitive.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What would happen to a school like Hamilton if it dropped out of the NESCAC? In a generation it would have “really fallen off” and in two generations it would be lost in the academic wilderness.

Or what if Cornell dropped out of the Ivy League and U Rochester joined? It sounds preposterous, but what would these two schools look like in 50 or 75 years?

These school know they need to remain in their athletic leagues to remain as relevant as they are today. Thus they need to recruit
athletes that will keep them competitive in their conference. Many, many of these kids being recruited are exceptional students and they get priority in admissions because they offer something to the school beyond their grades and test scores. It’s a case of “and” not “or” for the most part. Yes there is the occasional football player with the 1250 SAT but that is the extreme exception.

And the ancient Greeks agreed with the American model. The mind and intellectual pursuit was inseparable from the body and the athletic.

Um, the ancient Greeks also had slaves. If they are truly exceptional, they would not — as you euphemistically describe for an entirely different admissions process — need “priority” in admissions now, would they?

Seriously, what would happen to Cornell or Hamilton in say 50 years if they dropped out of their conferences tomorrow? How would their endowment be doing? Athletics and their conferences are arguably their lifeblood. If U Rochester took Cornell’s place, imagine the windfall.

What a simple world in which your mind lives…

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What would happen to a school like Hamilton if it dropped out of the NESCAC? In a generation it would have “really fallen off” and in two generations it would be lost in the academic wilderness.

Or what if Cornell dropped out of the Ivy League and U Rochester joined? It sounds preposterous, but what would these two schools look like in 50 or 75 years?

These school know they need to remain in their athletic leagues to remain as relevant as they are today. Thus they need to recruit
athletes that will keep them competitive in their conference. Many, many of these kids being recruited are exceptional students and they get priority in admissions because they offer something to the school beyond their grades and test scores. It’s a case of “and” not “or” for the most part. Yes there is the occasional football player with the 1250 SAT but that is the extreme exception.

And the ancient Greeks agreed with the American model. The mind and intellectual pursuit was inseparable from the body and the athletic.

Um, the ancient Greeks also had slaves. If they are truly exceptional, they would not — as you euphemistically describe for an entirely different admissions process — need “priority” in admissions now, would they?

Seriously, what would happen to Cornell or Hamilton in say 50 years if they dropped out of their conferences tomorrow? How would their endowment be doing? Athletics and their conferences are arguably their lifeblood. If U Rochester took Cornell’s place, imagine the windfall.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was watching another thread where moms were arguing back and forth over athletic recruiting and it seemed like both neither side was talking about what I think is the real question. Why do they place so much value on them? It's not just the top SLACs, (they are very heavy on recruits) but it is the smaller R1s as well. MIT, Chicago, JHU, WashU, Rochester, etc. all recruit a large number of athletes. NYU as well. These[b] schools obviously see great value in athletic recruiting, what are we missing?

It is still too much, but JHU is 10% athletes (Rochester is 9%) while Williams is over a third. In that sense, your R1 analogy falls flat.
https://ope.ed.gov/athletics/#/institution/details

JHU listed 60 men's lacrosse player on ope.ed.gov website.

But if you go to the school's roster:
https://hopkinssports.com/sports/mens-lacrosse/roster
There are 99 players.

It's more than 10% athletes.

Men’s lacrosse is D1 there whole all other sports are D3.

Williams athletes rock! They might as well be division 1; that’s how dominant they are in Division 3.

Williams # of athletes vs. “classic” SEC # athletes:

Williams: 680
Ole Miss: 407
Alabama: 645
Georgia: 563
Florida: 564

Williams has them all beat. Go Ephs! Go NESCAC! Screw the SEC.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What would happen to a school like Hamilton if it dropped out of the NESCAC? In a generation it would have “really fallen off” and in two generations it would be lost in the academic wilderness.

Or what if Cornell dropped out of the Ivy League and U Rochester joined? It sounds preposterous, but what would these two schools look like in 50 or 75 years?

These school know they need to remain in their athletic leagues to remain as relevant as they are today. Thus they need to recruit
athletes that will keep them competitive in their conference. Many, many of these kids being recruited are exceptional students and they get priority in admissions because they offer something to the school beyond their grades and test scores. It’s a case of “and” not “or” for the most part. Yes there is the occasional football player with the 1250 SAT but that is the extreme exception.

And the ancient Greeks agreed with the American model. The mind and intellectual pursuit was inseparable from the body and the athletic.

Um, the ancient Greeks also had slaves. If they are truly exceptional, they would not — as you euphemistically describe for an entirely different admissions process — need “priority” in admissions now, would they?

Lots of kids are smart and have great GPAs and test scores. Some have the great academic stats plus they are excellent athlètes.

The anthletes are prioritized because they have it all and then something else that the school wants. Any kid who puts the time and effort into both the academics and the athletics these schools are looking for can also be sought after by these schools.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What would happen to a school like Hamilton if it dropped out of the NESCAC? In a generation it would have “really fallen off” and in two generations it would be lost in the academic wilderness.

Or what if Cornell dropped out of the Ivy League and U Rochester joined? It sounds preposterous, but what would these two schools look like in 50 or 75 years?

These school know they need to remain in their athletic leagues to remain as relevant as they are today. Thus they need to recruit
athletes that will keep them competitive in their conference. Many, many of these kids being recruited are exceptional students and they get priority in admissions because they offer something to the school beyond their grades and test scores. It’s a case of “and” not “or” for the most part. Yes there is the occasional football player with the 1250 SAT but that is the extreme exception.

And the ancient Greeks agreed with the American model. The mind and intellectual pursuit was inseparable from the body and the athletic.

Um, the ancient Greeks also had slaves. If they are truly exceptional, they would not — as you euphemistically describe for an entirely different admissions process — need “priority” in admissions now, would they?

Because it’s not a case of either or, but rather and when it comes to the student athlete.

When it comes to the school, they need the athletic league more than the league needs any individual school.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What would happen to a school like Hamilton if it dropped out of the NESCAC? In a generation it would have “really fallen off” and in two generations it would be lost in the academic wilderness.

Or what if Cornell dropped out of the Ivy League and U Rochester joined? It sounds preposterous, but what would these two schools look like in 50 or 75 years?

These school know they need to remain in their athletic leagues to remain as relevant as they are today. Thus they need to recruit
athletes that will keep them competitive in their conference. Many, many of these kids being recruited are exceptional students and they get priority in admissions because they offer something to the school beyond their grades and test scores. It’s a case of “and” not “or” for the most part. Yes there is the occasional football player with the 1250 SAT but that is the extreme exception.

And the ancient Greeks agreed with the American model. The mind and intellectual pursuit was inseparable from the body and the athletic.

Um, the ancient Greeks also had slaves. If they are truly exceptional, they would not — as you euphemistically describe for an entirely different admissions process — need “priority” in admissions now, would they?

You have it backwards.

The athletes don’t need priority, the schools need the athletes and thus prioritize their admissions. Competitive sports teams are an institutional priority, why is that so difficult for people to grasp? The Ivy League, the NESCAC, the UAA are all athletic conferences of academic peers.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What would happen to a school like Hamilton if it dropped out of the NESCAC? In a generation it would have “really fallen off” and in two generations it would be lost in the academic wilderness.

Or what if Cornell dropped out of the Ivy League and U Rochester joined? It sounds preposterous, but what would these two schools look like in 50 or 75 years?

These school know they need to remain in their athletic leagues to remain as relevant as they are today. Thus they need to recruit
athletes that will keep them competitive in their conference. Many, many of these kids being recruited are exceptional students and they get priority in admissions because they offer something to the school beyond their grades and test scores. It’s a case of “and” not “or” for the most part. Yes there is the occasional football player with the 1250 SAT but that is the extreme exception.

And the ancient Greeks agreed with the American model. The mind and intellectual pursuit was inseparable from the body and the athletic.

Um, the ancient Greeks also had slaves. If they are truly exceptional, they would not — as you euphemistically describe for an entirely different admissions process — need “priority” in admissions now, would they?

That’s true about the slave thing. Okay. Let’s just burn all their books and never learn anything from them again.

Please. If that’s how you respond to a point don’t bother.

Anonymous wrote:What would happen to a school like Hamilton if it dropped out of the NESCAC? In a generation it would have “really fallen off” and in two generations it would be lost in the academic wilderness.

Or what if Cornell dropped out of the Ivy League and U Rochester joined? It sounds preposterous, but what would these two schools look like in 50 or 75 years?

These school know they need to remain in their athletic leagues to remain as relevant as they are today. Thus they need to recruit
athletes that will keep them competitive in their conference. Many, many of these kids being recruited are exceptional students and they get priority in admissions because they offer something to the school beyond their grades and test scores. It’s a case of “and” not “or” for the most part. Yes there is the occasional football player with the 1250 SAT but that is the extreme exception.

And the ancient Greeks agreed with the American model. The mind and intellectual pursuit was inseparable from the body and the athletic.

Um, the ancient Greeks also had slaves. If they are truly exceptional, they would not — as you euphemistically describe for an entirely different admissions process — need “priority” in admissions now, would they?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:University of Texas (Austin) has 581 athletes — and 39,600 undergrads.
Williams College has 680 athletes — and 2,100 undergrads.

I think you meant 691 athletes at UT Austin, and I wonder how much you know about the costs of and emphasis on the mens’ football program at Texas?

At least that brings in money and has a school spirit benefit. The campus of Williams does not go into a frenzy when the lacrosse team is playing.

That's because half the student body at Williams College is on the lacrosse team.

In summing up this thread, it appears that Williams College & MIT are jock schools.

Well, let’s see:
MIT 17% athletes
Williams College 33% athletes (38% men)
I think MIT needs to expand their male enrollment by devoting another 20% of its admissions slots to athletes; that way it can be more like Williams, and — no doubt — attract smarter students.

What would happen to a school like Hamilton if it dropped out of the NESCAC? In a generation it would have “really fallen off” and in two generations it would be lost in the academic wilderness.

Or what if Cornell dropped out of the Ivy League and U Rochester joined? It sounds preposterous, but what would these two schools look like in 50 or 75 years?

These school know they need to remain in their athletic leagues to remain as relevant as they are today. Thus they need to recruit
athletes that will keep them competitive in their conference. Many, many of these kids being recruited are exceptional students and they get priority in admissions because they offer something to the school beyond their grades and test scores. It’s a case of “and” not “or” for the most part. Yes there is the occasional football player with the 1250 SAT but that is the extreme exception.

And the ancient Greeks agreed with the American model. The mind and intellectual pursuit was inseparable from the body and the athletic.