Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Don't talk about it any more until you do the following. This worked for me.

Take on for 3 months in a row categorizing each dollar that is spent.

This is only for expenses incurred. This is not cashflow analysis, this is expenses.

Then, average them.

Then look at his income alone and compare it to that averaged expense.

Have a discussion about the actual numbers going in and coming out.

Maybe, there is enough money to do all of these things and also save but it "feels" too much to you.
Or maybe, there is not enough money to do all of these things.
Jointly decide on how much your budget can support for each person to have in spending money, then it's no questions asked for that. For the stuff that's in the middle figure out where you are willing to work together to reduce expenses (make the smoothie?).

My DH did this and while it was hard to hear, it was effective. He didn’t blame me. He just showed how much was being spent on each line item each month. At the very end, he gently pointed out that he was spending X on himself each month and I was spending Y. Now we each have an equal discretionary budget. If I want Starbucks, I get Starbucks. Each night, all expenses get logged into the Monarch app and assigned to a budget line. That Starbucks gets put under my discretionary budget. As long as I’m on budget, I get to spend how I want. If I buy the kids dinner at CFA, that goes on my discretionary budget. It might be different if you have a teen . Maybe this would work for your DH.

My god, how depressing.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These are not huge items but they add up. When I raise the topic, dh gets very defensive and insists these are ‘necessities’ and important for his ‘health’. It is really getting to me as I’m shouldering all the major expenses, and I don’t buy these things for myself. Since being laid off, dh is ‘consulting’ but makes very little.

We have one dc left at home and he now follows dh’s spending patterns.

Examples:
Almost daily smoothies that are $12+
Starbucks
Organic everything - milk, cream, meat, fruit.
Gym membership at pricey gym
Take out - and always with a large drink or two that they end up tossing
New clothing items that they deem ‘necessary’ - eg, new pricey athletic shoes once a season, new boots, etc.

Read “all your worth”. This type of purchases are annoying but are not changing the trajectory of your financial life.

You are the “avacado toast is why you can’t afford a house” camp right now. It’s noise and doesn’t really change anything.

Only exception would be what counts as “pricey” gym — is it close to $1000 /month like a car payment? I know that is one place it can get extreme.

I need new shoes every 6 months and I don’t exercise all the time — your DH might be with all his free time.

Totally disagree. All of those things easily count to 1k a month. 12k a year is like why you can’t afford a home. It’s shocking actually how much the little things add up.

+1 it's the spending habits, even if it's for Starbucks, that cause people to not be able to save. $500/month on gyms, smoothies, etc.. which are necessities is $500 you could be saving.

You have to have a saving mindset, not a spender mindset.

I honestly don't understand people who don't want to cut back even as one spouse has stopped working.

Anonymous wrote:Read other threads. It is financial abuse to control what the non employed spouse spends. It is all family money and it doesn't matter who earns it.

what a dumb post.

He's unemployed, ie, not bringing in any income, ie, they need to cut back on expenses.

It all depends on the big picture. Is OP making $500k a year? What is their net worth? Could be that this is a nit-picky problem, or it could be causing financial ruin. We don't know without the full picture.

I find it odd that one spouse doesn't know the finances of the other - that makes me worried WRT goals like retirement and college, AND possible debt. Not sure that a pre-nup would get rid of that debt. The pre-nup bit is a marker too - either there is a LOT of money somewhere, or financial issues before they got married.

Anonymous wrote:We’re dual income and this would be an unacceptable level of spending. On occasion, it’s fine. On the regular, we would have a talk with each other. We have joint accounts and joint financial goals. We’re in this together and multiple $12 smoothies a week would not work for us.

A $12 smoothie is just a smoothie. Inflation has been terrible, and the fresh produce used in smoothies have especially gotten expensive.

It’s hardly luxury to hitting the Jamba Juice after the gym.

https://www.reddit.com/r/MiddleClassFinance/comments/1arly03/jamba_juice_large_smoothie_is_12_this_is/

Anonymous wrote:We’re dual income and this would be an unacceptable level of spending. On occasion, it’s fine. On the regular, we would have a talk with each other. We have joint accounts and joint financial goals. We’re in this together and multiple $12 smoothies a week would not work for us.

Yes, but let’s say they each have a $200 discretionary budget each month. As long as he sticks to $200, he can get as many $12 smoothies as he wants. He just can’t go over. That’s the beauty of a budget. I could spend 90% of my budget on Starbucks and 10% on everything else. It’s not DH’s business if I wear thrift store clothes to accommodate my Starbucks habit, as long as I stay within the budget. I suspect the DH will exceed his budget for the first two or three months, DW will gently point it out each time, and if he’s a normal adult, he’ll adjust his spending. After 3 months, I’d have a big talk.

We’re dual income and this would be an unacceptable level of spending. On occasion, it’s fine. On the regular, we would have a talk with each other. We have joint accounts and joint financial goals. We’re in this together and multiple $12 smoothies a week would not work for us.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Don't talk about it any more until you do the following. This worked for me.

Take on for 3 months in a row categorizing each dollar that is spent.

This is only for expenses incurred. This is not cashflow analysis, this is expenses.

Then, average them.

Then look at his income alone and compare it to that averaged expense.

Have a discussion about the actual numbers going in and coming out.

Maybe, there is enough money to do all of these things and also save but it "feels" too much to you.
Or maybe, there is not enough money to do all of these things.
Jointly decide on how much your budget can support for each person to have in spending money, then it's no questions asked for that. For the stuff that's in the middle figure out where you are willing to work together to reduce expenses (make the smoothie?).

My DH did this and while it was hard to hear, it was effective. He didn’t blame me. He just showed how much was being spent on each line item each month. At the very end, he gently pointed out that he was spending X on himself each month and I was spending Y. Now we each have an equal discretionary budget. If I want Starbucks, I get Starbucks. Each night, all expenses get logged into the Monarch app and assigned to a budget line. That Starbucks gets put under my discretionary budget. As long as I’m on budget, I get to spend how I want. If I buy the kids dinner at CFA, that goes on my discretionary budget. It might be different if you have a teen . Maybe this would work for your DH.

This is a great idea. It’s inevitable that spouses will spend differently and value different things. As long as there is an agreed upon discretionary amount for spending and each person can stick to spending their portion I don’t see an issue.

Anonymous wrote:Don't talk about it any more until you do the following. This worked for me.

Take on for 3 months in a row categorizing each dollar that is spent.

This is only for expenses incurred. This is not cashflow analysis, this is expenses.

Then, average them.

Then look at his income alone and compare it to that averaged expense.

Have a discussion about the actual numbers going in and coming out.

Maybe, there is enough money to do all of these things and also save but it "feels" too much to you.
Or maybe, there is not enough money to do all of these things.
Jointly decide on how much your budget can support for each person to have in spending money, then it's no questions asked for that. For the stuff that's in the middle figure out where you are willing to work together to reduce expenses (make the smoothie?).

My DH did this and while it was hard to hear, it was effective. He didn’t blame me. He just showed how much was being spent on each line item each month. At the very end, he gently pointed out that he was spending X on himself each month and I was spending Y. Now we each have an equal discretionary budget. If I want Starbucks, I get Starbucks. Each night, all expenses get logged into the Monarch app and assigned to a budget line. That Starbucks gets put under my discretionary budget. As long as I’m on budget, I get to spend how I want. If I buy the kids dinner at CFA, that goes on my discretionary budget. It might be different if you have a teen . Maybe this would work for your DH.

^^if too young to work, give them an allowance and stick to it.

My husband and I are same--separate money. It's not that unusual.

My husband was laid off at one point for an extended period.

You both have to decide what you can cut and what you really want to keep and then do it. You have to pay for housing, transportation, utilities and food. For me what I really wanted to keep was my 6 times a year hair appointments and twice-monthly cleaners.

We cut back on everything else. Got rid of subscriptions and entertainment costs, the gym, etc. If one of those is something you have to have, like the gym keeps you sane, cut back someplace else. Buy only clothes you need and use the things you already have. Buy sparingly and buy some things used.

If your kids are old enough to work, encourage this. This was great for me as a teen who wasn't expected to work. I found a liking for work over school that never left me. Same for my kids. It doesn't have to be many hours, but they can pay for their treats and that kind of thing.

This was many years ago and we survived.

Anonymous wrote:You guys need a budget app to track spending. I use YNAB. Work as a couple to determine household budget, and personal “fun/treats” spending for each of you, and agree on a monthly allowance for your son.

Your income is family income. But both of you need to agree on what’s a reasonable amount for each of you to spend. If he wants $10 smoothies four times a week, that’s $160/month from his “fun money”. You also get the same amount. You need to make a budget together.

Good idea

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These are not huge items but they add up. When I raise the topic, dh gets very defensive and insists these are ‘necessities’ and important for his ‘health’. It is really getting to me as I’m shouldering all the major expenses, and I don’t buy these things for myself. Since being laid off, dh is ‘consulting’ but makes very little.

We have one dc left at home and he now follows dh’s spending patterns.

Examples:
Almost daily smoothies that are $12+
Starbucks
Organic everything - milk, cream, meat, fruit.
Gym membership at pricey gym
Take out - and always with a large drink or two that they end up tossing
New clothing items that they deem ‘necessary’ - eg, new pricey athletic shoes once a season, new boots, etc.

Read “all your worth”. This type of purchases are annoying but are not changing the trajectory of your financial life.

You are the “avacado toast is why you can’t afford a house” camp right now. It’s noise and doesn’t really change anything.

Only exception would be what counts as “pricey” gym — is it close to $1000 /month like a car payment? I know that is one place it can get extreme.

I need new shoes every 6 months and I don’t exercise all the time — your DH might be with all his free time.

Totally disagree. All of those things easily count to 1k a month. 12k a year is like why you can’t afford a home. It’s shocking actually how much the little things add up.

Op, exactly. It really does add up and it’s on stupid stuff.

It’s just like he was spending on hookers and blow.

Does this really affect your budget? Or it dwarfed by the fluctuation of the market on your savings?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These are not huge items but they add up. When I raise the topic, dh gets very defensive and insists these are ‘necessities’ and important for his ‘health’. It is really getting to me as I’m shouldering all the major expenses, and I don’t buy these things for myself. Since being laid off, dh is ‘consulting’ but makes very little.

We have one dc left at home and he now follows dh’s spending patterns.

Examples:
Almost daily smoothies that are $12+
Starbucks
Organic everything - milk, cream, meat, fruit.
Gym membership at pricey gym
Take out - and always with a large drink or two that they end up tossing
New clothing items that they deem ‘necessary’ - eg, new pricey athletic shoes once a season, new boots, etc.

Get an accountant to help you two sort this out without hurting your marriage.

An accountant? What services exactly would OP ask for?

Anonymous wrote:OP, I have been married for 20 years and we have always had separate bank accounts and credit cards so I get that. Maybe weird to some people but works for us. It sounds like you are enabling your DH and your son. If DH doesn’t work where is he getting the money from to pay for his wasteful choices? If it is coming from you why don’t you tell him how you feel and get yourselves on a budget? And no way in hell would I be paying for any of this for a teenage son. He can get a job. This isn’t just on them, you are allowing it.

I am paying for almost everything. Dh makes a little money and uses that for these items. I’ve objected and said ‘you should contribute to housing, insurance etc if you can afford these extras’ and he argues and claims he ‘spends very little’ and the money he is giving to dc is for ‘things he needs’.

As I mentioned, my other dc is not like this at all.