Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:While a college might accept high school AP classes, I doubt a medical school (who has specific course requirements) will accept a high school O Chem class. My DS is an attending physician and community college classes were not accepted. Again, I am not talking about an English class, but the required courses needed to apply to med school.

No. O chem is NOT accepted by med school. Not even gen chem. You can’t use AP courses in lieu of college gen chem or ochem. However, AP Cal BC (not AB) score 5 is accepted, you just need to take statistics for math in college.

I think AP physics score 5 is also accepted but not sure.

some schools, even ivy-level, allow skipping genchem and going straight into Ochem as freshman. They most certainly can be doctors. Med schools like to see upper level science after orgo including biochem and more. It is not a problem to use AP credit for genchem IF the college allows. These are feeders to med school that allow it. They know how to advise correctly in this situation. -Doc who skipped genchem entirely, went to a T5 med school, and has a kid who skipped one semester(how their school works with a 5 on AP chem).

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is what people mean when they talk about kids being weeded out of pre-med classes. Tons of kids plan to go pre-med, but do not get there because STEM does not come easy to them. There's no reason to fight your own strengths. Why not encourage your child to try another area where your child may naturally be stronger?

Weed out at DC’s state flagship is huge, losing half premed wannabe after the first year. Losing half of the remaining again after OChem

There's nothing wrong with pivoting from premed to something else. I did the same thing when I got a B- in Gen Chem. I changed to poli sci major, got into a good law school, became a lawyer and all is fine.

However, someone who struggles in STEM and stays premed for too long ends up basically ruining their GPA and also isn't going to want to become a PA, RN or DO. Heck, most of them probably didn't even want to become family docs but were hoping to become a specialist. So, what other good career options are available for someone who gets weeded out?

They can pivot and get into a masters in nutrition or science-adjacent. or into pharmaceutical sales(most of my T10 weeded out friends did the latter)

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes - the college has peer tutoring. He has tried that but it's hit and miss. Will tell him to keep trying and also considering an outside tutor for a boost of confidence.

OP as one who had a DS in the same situation last year- right down to the rigorous private and the doing OK in calculus 1- I will add this.

Your support for an outside tutor is great. Tell him you will pay for it so he has no excuse. But do not under any circumstances let him whine too much about this and do not let him drop the class. Unless you want to teach him to turn tail the minute things get “hard” in life.

I’m not sure it’s that simple. Calc 2 is really difficult for a lot of kids. If gos professor isn’t a good fit that will exacerbate the issue. He may need to commit to putting a ton of time into this class - daily like several hours. My DS’ school has open tutoring times with the TAs for calc 2. He needs to go regularly, he needs a study group and he needs a high quality tutor.

And with all that he may still not do fabulously. These classes are called weeder classes for a reason and the reason a lot of people drop pre-med. there’s no shame in switching gears if you realize you don’t have the acumen to excel on these classes and it also takes a lot of maturity and self discipline for a young college student who may not be a natural with this material to put in the kind of hours of study and outside efforts they would need to do to be successful.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is what people mean when they talk about kids being weeded out of pre-med classes. Tons of kids plan to go pre-med, but do not get there because STEM does not come easy to them. There's no reason to fight your own strengths. Why not encourage your child to try another area where your child may naturally be stronger?

Weed out at DC’s state flagship is huge, losing half premed wannabe after the first year. Losing half of the remaining again after OChem

My son goes to a southern state flagship and it is very sad to see all the posts from kids who were in the top of their class at some grade inflated high school in a small town and thought they would be a doctor. But then have trouble with even the basic core classes and have to drop out. No one is doing these kids a service.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is what people mean when they talk about kids being weeded out of pre-med classes. Tons of kids plan to go pre-med, but do not get there because STEM does not come easy to them. There's no reason to fight your own strengths. Why not encourage your child to try another area where your child may naturally be stronger?

Weed out at DC’s state flagship is huge, losing half premed wannabe after the first year. Losing half of the remaining again after OChem

There's nothing wrong with pivoting from premed to something else. I did the same thing when I got a B- in Gen Chem. I changed to poli sci major, got into a good law school, became a lawyer and all is fine.

However, someone who struggles in STEM and stays premed for too long ends up basically ruining their GPA and also isn't going to want to become a PA, RN or DO. Heck, most of them probably didn't even want to become family docs but were hoping to become a specialist. So, what other good career options are available for someone who gets weeded out?

Anonymous wrote:This is what people mean when they talk about kids being weeded out of pre-med classes. Tons of kids plan to go pre-med, but do not get there because STEM does not come easy to them. There's no reason to fight your own strengths. Why not encourage your child to try another area where your child may naturally be stronger?

Weed out at DC’s state flagship is huge, losing half premed wannabe after the first year. Losing half of the remaining again after OChem

This is what people mean when they talk about kids being weeded out of pre-med classes. Tons of kids plan to go pre-med, but do not get there because STEM does not come easy to them. There's no reason to fight your own strengths. Why not encourage your child to try another area where your child may naturally be stronger?

Anonymous wrote:While a college might accept high school AP classes, I doubt a medical school (who has specific course requirements) will accept a high school O Chem class. My DS is an attending physician and community college classes were not accepted. Again, I am not talking about an English class, but the required courses needed to apply to med school.

No. O chem is NOT accepted by med school. Not even gen chem. You can’t use AP courses in lieu of college gen chem or ochem. However, AP Cal BC (not AB) score 5 is accepted, you just need to take statistics for math in college.

I think AP physics score 5 is also accepted but not sure.

While a college might accept high school AP classes, I doubt a medical school (who has specific course requirements) will accept a high school O Chem class. My DS is an attending physician and community college classes were not accepted. Again, I am not talking about an English class, but the required courses needed to apply to med school.

Anonymous wrote:If your kid is having difficulties with Calc2, his journey to med school will be very problematic.

med school does not require math beyond passing calc and basic statistics

Anonymous wrote:My kid is at a top LAC and is struggling with Calc 2 (he already did Calc 1 last semester and did ok). He had a bumpy first semester as a freshman and is now stressed out about this semester because of Calc 2. He is talking about transferring as he feels like he does not belong in the college academically (socially happy). He came from a rigorous private and did well, although always weaker in math but made it through to Calc and did fine. Plenty of APs with good grades. We were surprised at how much he struggled first semester at college. He wants to do sciences/pre med so is required to take Calc 2 for this course. Any advice?

how weak? what was the PSAT score in 9 or 10th (ie no prep). Did he take Calc-AP-AB as a senior, or BC? or just regular calc?
Weaker in math in high school is somewhat concerning for premed, as is the bumpy first semester. Is he a sophomore now? How was second semester freshman? What were the Gen Chem grades?

If your kid is having difficulties with Calc2, his journey to med school will be very problematic.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes - the college has peer tutoring. He has tried that but it's hit and miss. Will tell him to keep trying and also considering an outside tutor for a boost of confidence.

OP as one who had a DS in the same situation last year- right down to the rigorous private and the doing OK in calculus 1- I will add this.

Your support for an outside tutor is great. Tell him you will pay for it so he has no excuse. But do not under any circumstances let him whine too much about this and do not let him drop the class. Unless you want to teach him to turn tail the minute things get “hard” in life.

Maybe he just isn’t cut out for pre-med? If he can’t get through Calc2, it is hard to see that he’ll be able to handle Organic Chem at some point.

Another false! Calculus and OChem require different skills. It's highly likely one is good at OChem but only average at Calculus.

False it is not Highly Likely. Possible, yes. But the majority of my peers at a T10(OP said top slac so it relates) who were below the mean in Calc2 (single variable calc corresponding to BC calc plus extra because the college was rigorous) were below the mean in O-chem. Those of us who aced orgo or aced calc were almost always good at the other, maybe not aceing but top 30-40%, above average (would be A- now, then that was B+) which is all that matters for premed.
OP ‘s kid is apparently below average. There is a higher likelihood of being below avg in Ochem than there is of above avg especially at a rigorous college that teaches analytical Ochem with difficult problems harder than are found on the mcat.

Anonymous wrote:Is he willing to secure a tutor? His professor might be able to recommend a person.

I have found great tutors on the Wyzant app. (we do remote).

I find school tutors to not be as flexible on scheduling, esp right before a test/

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Calc 2 is likely easier at a community college. He could consider dropping it this semester and taking it over the summer.

this is what everyone at Michigan does.

Med schools frown upon it. Taking it in the summer at the same college is fine.