Anonymous wrote:When I was growing up in the 90s if I looked out the window and my friends were outside I went outside too. When I look outside my windows today there are no kids 95% of the time. In fact people just don’t seem to ever go outside in general, not to garden or do anything. I find walking around the neighborhood creepy and I want to move as a result, but this seems like such a common problem. Most of our neighborhood are retirees or people with much younger kids at this point. So I let my kids socialize through school, church, and activities. But I really wish I had raised them in a neighborhood with lots of kids outside.

My solution for not living in a neighborhood like this is . . . wait for it . . . playdates. "Playdates" in my circle are just unstructured kid-led playtime. We don't live in neighborhoods like you grew up in, so, yeah, us moms have to set it up and drop a kid off...but then it is just kid-led playtime. We don't set up activities or hover. What is stopping you from texting the mom of a kid your kid has been getting along with in class and inviting them over to play? Then you let them be and they play -- send them outside even.

Anonymous wrote:When I was growing up in the 90s if I looked out the window and my friends were outside I went outside too. When I look outside my windows today there are no kids 95% of the time. In fact people just don’t seem to ever go outside in general, not to garden or do anything. I find walking around the neighborhood creepy and I want to move as a result, but this seems like such a common problem. Most of our neighborhood are retirees or people with much younger kids at this point. So I let my kids socialize through school, church, and activities. But I really wish I had raised them in a neighborhood with lots of kids outside.

Those neighborhoods don't really exist. It sounds like yours is an outlier in terms of no kids at all -- that's a bit odd for a neighborhood with a lot of families. But I live in a neighborhood with a lot of kids and while we do see them at the park or walking home, the kids do not all go out and play together like we did when I was kids. Everyone is in a lot of activities. The adults don't trust kids under 10 to play in shared space (front yards, sidewalks, the street) without adult supervision, even if older kids are present, so playing has to be more organized and happen when adults can be there. Older kids play independently BUT they are around way less because by MS most kids have 1 or 2 sports or activities where they focus their time and are less interested in just hanging out with neighborhood friends.

I get why you feel this way but it's like how a lot of adult women have this pressure or expectation that they will have a tight, cohesive group of female friends for the duration of adulthood. In reality almost no one has that, and the norm is to have a somewhat disjointed group of friendships and for groups to sort of form and then fall apart with time. Which is actually fine and healthy and actually you should consider yourself fortunate if you have some reliable longterm friends at all because many people do not. If you get too hung up on what the ideal (that almost no one actually has) looks like, you will overlook that you may actually have it pretty good. Sounds like your kids have plenty of friends and outlets for socializing. I would try to let go of the image of the kid-filled neighborhood. If it exists, it's a rarity and is probably ephemeral (that group of kids gets older and then the next group doesn't gel as well and it's over).

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We do play dates but I don’t love it, because they are hard to schedule, 50% of the time someone cancels due to illness or whatever, and also the families in our circle expect elaborate multi-hour play dates with structured activities whereas I’d prefer just a two hour play date drop off exchange. But we soldier on because I think they’re important. I’d much much rather have a strong neighborhood community where kids can just go over each others houses without all the scheduling. Sadly even though we moved to a suburban neighborhood for this reason in part, I never ever see any of the kids playing outside. I think they’re all inside on screens or scheduled activities. It’s really too bad.

OP here and the bolded above is why I find them stressful. I have tried to move towards to more chill version of playdates but you can tell parents (and now kids) expect something more organized. It's standard where I live for playdates to involve a craft activity (with take home craft) and either a meal or an elaborate snack. I find this stressful whether I'm hosting or not, because my kid is also a very picky eater who especially struggles to eat in other people's homes.

wtf? if parents expected this I would never host a playdate. full stop. i’m not a daycare provider-it’s not my job to have structured activities for your kid if they come over to play. And I don’t do crafts. Happy to give the kid whatever art supplies they want but i’m not curating a special craft with them. absolutely not.

Agree. OP your experience is not the norm in my area/circle (UMC Chicago suburb). Scheduling playdates is a slight PITA, sure. And they do take up time, obviously. But once the friend is over, it often makes my life easier. With both of my DDs, she and the friend run off to play in our basement, her room, or sometimes our backyard. Obviously I check in on them as appropriate. I offer snacks. I sometimes have to suggest moving on to a new toy or activity ... but I actually like playdates because I don't have to entertain my kids! This is what happens at friends' houses too.

When I was growing up in the 90s if I looked out the window and my friends were outside I went outside too. When I look outside my windows today there are no kids 95% of the time. In fact people just don’t seem to ever go outside in general, not to garden or do anything. I find walking around the neighborhood creepy and I want to move as a result, but this seems like such a common problem. Most of our neighborhood are retirees or people with much younger kids at this point. So I let my kids socialize through school, church, and activities. But I really wish I had raised them in a neighborhood with lots of kids outside.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think its more important for only kids than kids with siblings, in the broad sense of socialization. I don't expect my kid to be lifelong friends with kids met in kindergarten ir anything. I only try to do arrange one if I sense my kid is super bored/in a rut.

I think this is a misperception of the difference between being an only versus having siblings. Playdates with a chosen friend do not really address the same skills that having siblings does. The whole thing with siblings is that you don't get to pick. Your brother or sister just there, they are a member of your family, and you have to figure out how to share space, resources, and time with them whether you like it or not. Siblings are also usually older or younger, not peers, which helps kids build skills with accommodating younger kids or working to be more mature to hang in with older kids.

Better ways to teach these skills to only kids than playdates: spending time with cousins or friends kids of a varying ages in a compulsory way, signing them up for mixed age activities that involve independent play (so like lego clubs, camps with downtime, swim team where there's social downtime, etc.). Playdates are also good but only kids and kids with siblings actually experience them similarly. Interacting with a chosen friend is a skill everyone has to learn, I'm not even sure kids with siblings have an edge in this area tbh.

That’s pretty much what school is for. They pick their friends at recess and lunch to talk to or play with. Doing it after school isn’t going to add much more benefit.

You are misguided, and you will be the parent back on here in several years talking about how your poor older ES or MS kid hasn't found their group, has no one to sit with at lunch, etc.

Playdates - by which I simply mean having a friend over or meeting up with a friend - are important. They help kids learn how to interact in a positive way with a chosen friend, as the PP put it. In other words, it helps them form, build, and deepen friendships. I can assure you that most of the other kids are getting together with kids outside of school -- having friends over, meeting up at the playground, meeting up for a bike ride, whatever. Almost everyone I know socializes their kids outside of school with peers. They are then choosing to play with at recess or sit at lunch with those kids that they have built friendships with outside of school. Your child is in the minority if they only see peers at school and will soon be left out. What is your ES kid so busy with that they don't have time to have a friend over or meet up somewhere with a friend a few times a month?

Anonymous wrote:Important. Learning how to host, to share your space and things, to play one on one, etc.

Agree

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We do play dates but I don’t love it, because they are hard to schedule, 50% of the time someone cancels due to illness or whatever, and also the families in our circle expect elaborate multi-hour play dates with structured activities whereas I’d prefer just a two hour play date drop off exchange. But we soldier on because I think they’re important. I’d much much rather have a strong neighborhood community where kids can just go over each others houses without all the scheduling. Sadly even though we moved to a suburban neighborhood for this reason in part, I never ever see any of the kids playing outside. I think they’re all inside on screens or scheduled activities. It’s really too bad.

OP here and the bolded above is why I find them stressful. I have tried to move towards to more chill version of playdates but you can tell parents (and now kids) expect something more organized. It's standard where I live for playdates to involve a craft activity (with take home craft) and either a meal or an elaborate snack. I find this stressful whether I'm hosting or not, because my kid is also a very picky eater who especially struggles to eat in other people's homes.

wtf? if parents expected this I would never host a playdate. full stop. i’m not a daycare provider-it’s not my job to have structured activities for your kid if they come over to play. And I don’t do crafts. Happy to give the kid whatever art supplies they want but i’m not curating a special craft with them. absolutely not.

important for networking

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The thread about how to communicate that you don't want to do playdates with another family got me thinking about this. Do you think playdates are essential? Somewhat important? Could be skipped altogether?

I will admit I find playdates kind of stressful and don't enjoy doing them. My kid asks for them though so I do them. I'd love to skip it though.

Super important for your child to learn how to get along with and work with others

Nope, that's what school and siblings are for. Playdates are just for play. If your only child hasn't learned to get along with others, then they aren't getting invited to have playdates in the first place.

Important if your kid can't befriend other kids around the neighborhood or during random visits to the park, if your kid is an only child, or if your kid is homeschooled. If your kids don't want to meet up with other kids from school or activities, let it be and don't force it. Some kids find all the forced socialization of school and activities to be exhausting and don't want more.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think its more important for only kids than kids with siblings, in the broad sense of socialization. I don't expect my kid to be lifelong friends with kids met in kindergarten ir anything. I only try to do arrange one if I sense my kid is super bored/in a rut.

I think this is a misperception of the difference between being an only versus having siblings. Playdates with a chosen friend do not really address the same skills that having siblings does. The whole thing with siblings is that you don't get to pick. Your brother or sister just there, they are a member of your family, and you have to figure out how to share space, resources, and time with them whether you like it or not. Siblings are also usually older or younger, not peers, which helps kids build skills with accommodating younger kids or working to be more mature to hang in with older kids.

Better ways to teach these skills to only kids than playdates: spending time with cousins or friends kids of a varying ages in a compulsory way, signing them up for mixed age activities that involve independent play (so like lego clubs, camps with downtime, swim team where there's social downtime, etc.). Playdates are also good but only kids and kids with siblings actually experience them similarly. Interacting with a chosen friend is a skill everyone has to learn, I'm not even sure kids with siblings have an edge in this area tbh.

That’s pretty much what school is for. They pick their friends at recess and lunch to talk to or play with. Doing it after school isn’t going to add much more benefit.

Anonymous wrote:I think its more important for only kids than kids with siblings, in the broad sense of socialization. I don't expect my kid to be lifelong friends with kids met in kindergarten ir anything. I only try to do arrange one if I sense my kid is super bored/in a rut.

I think this is a misperception of the difference between being an only versus having siblings. Playdates with a chosen friend do not really address the same skills that having siblings does. The whole thing with siblings is that you don't get to pick. Your brother or sister just there, they are a member of your family, and you have to figure out how to share space, resources, and time with them whether you like it or not. Siblings are also usually older or younger, not peers, which helps kids build skills with accommodating younger kids or working to be more mature to hang in with older kids.

Better ways to teach these skills to only kids than playdates: spending time with cousins or friends kids of a varying ages in a compulsory way, signing them up for mixed age activities that involve independent play (so like lego clubs, camps with downtime, swim team where there's social downtime, etc.). Playdates are also good but only kids and kids with siblings actually experience them similarly. Interacting with a chosen friend is a skill everyone has to learn, I'm not even sure kids with siblings have an edge in this area tbh.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The thread about how to communicate that you don't want to do playdates with another family got me thinking about this. Do you think playdates are essential? Somewhat important? Could be skipped altogether?

I will admit I find playdates kind of stressful and don't enjoy doing them. My kid asks for them though so I do them. I'd love to skip it though.

Super important for your child to learn how to get along with and work with others

Playdates are not the only way to do that though. At all. My kid has grown up just going to the neighborhood playground 4-5 days a week and playing with whoever is there. This is much more useful for learning out to get along with and work with other kids. She's 9 now and she can find a playmate pretty much anywhere -- school, playground, the beach, vacation. She also has school friends, ballet friends, and a set of kids we call "the cousins" even though they aren't related -- it's a group of kids from our social group who were all born within 4 or 5 years of each other and with whom we spend a lot of holidays and sometimes vacation.

We still do playdates sometimes. She has a couple school friends she's close to and they will request them sometimes, especially years where they are not in the same class or in the summer. But it's pretty occasional and not really about learning how to get along and work with others. It's about deepening those friendships a bit and is more like an extra treat on top of all her usual socialization. It's not a daily or weekly occurrence at all.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m confused… what you’re saying is that you never want your children to have friends over?

You can have friends without having formal “play dates”

I actually use the term play date for any friend that comes over at an age where I need any involvement. I don’t think play date implies anything other than friend over.

Ditto

I think its more important for only kids than kids with siblings, in the broad sense of socialization. I don't expect my kid to be lifelong friends with kids met in kindergarten ir anything. I only try to do arrange one if I sense my kid is super bored/in a rut.