Text daily and invite her more.

Payback is hell.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:She your husband’s mother. Show some respect.

Respect is earned. MIL has been extremely rude and disrespectful, so your comment does not apply.

No, you show deference and respect to elders. Bullshit with this idea she has to “earn” OP’s respect. Wow. Were you raised wrong?

PP you replied to. I was raised in very traditional family structures on both my mother and father's side where some elders abused their children. I learned from personal experience, and witnessing other relatives' experiences, that respect is earned.

Showing deference to elders stops when said elder pushes boundaries. I defer to my lovely MIL, FIL and to my father, who all know exactly where they stand. I do not defer to my mother, whose untreated anxiety makes her verbally abusive and hypercontrolling. She was abused herself as a child by members of her family.

Check yourself, PP.

Clearly you weren’t raised [to be a doormat] like PP said.

Fixed that for you.
NP

Anonymous wrote:She your husband’s mother. Show some respect.

Aside from lingering, it doesn't sound like she's malicious. She is probably just lonely. Have a kind heart and let an old lady just hang around a little.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Agree with others who said to decline her offer from the get go. Keep her on a perpetual information diet. Never share your vacation plans or dinner plans ahead of time. If she is the type (like my mother) to fish for information from the kids, don’t tell them vacation plans either. This way she can’t buy a ticket and impose on you at the last minute or play the “the kids told me you’re going to X” or “the kids invited me to join you on X” card. She knows exactly what she is doing. It’s manipulative.

I agree with this, plus hosting her when you can because she's so lonely. But when I saw the headline I thought of my grandma who was not eating due to poor finances + poor executive function. So just in case, find out what she eats when she's alone and make sure she is getting meals.

OP here - I agree it’s manipulation too but still trying to work to somehow bring some level of harmony since neither of us will be moving away. I know because on one occasion in the past when we were discussing an event that someone else was hosting, I casually mentioned “well maybe x doesn’t want that”, to which she responded “oh don’t worry I know how to get what I want”. She is not oblivious but certainly a little mindless.

You seem like a nice person and I really believe that this person is overstepping. Something you said struck me -- that she could literally spend every day with you all and still not be satisfied.

If you find yourself feeling like a person is like a bucket with a hole in the bottom -- no matter how much you pour in, it will never be enough -- this is a person with borderline personality disorder. These people have a fear of abandonment and a desperate need to stay connected.

They don't change, but they do respond to very strict boundaries. Don't ever assume -- you have to be clear with her and push back when you don't want her around. Otherwise she will literally be there all the time and it still won't be enough to satisfy her need.

The people responding that you should be kinder probably don't have someone like this in their life. They have no clue how stressful and disturbing it is.

Read up on Borderline and see if it resonates.

Interesting… yes, she very much is like a bucket with absolutely no bottom. What I didn’t mention, because I didn’t think it was relevant to the story, is that for the first 7 years of marriage I absolutely poured into the bucket with no hesitation. I saw how lonely she was, despite being married - I think the emptiness of her marriage makes it worse actually, so I included her in things and was happy to accommodate her every push. Basically I was a pushover but a happy one because I don’t mind including others if it makes them happy.

It took many experiences to realize that she was actually totally self absorbed and oblivious to other people’s needs and boundaries if they interfered with her wants.

A turning point for me was when I had a series of chrinic health issue that involved a couple major surgery a few years back and was bedridden for a week after each surgery. She did not once ask me how I was doing, and instead spent the ensuing days of my recovery insisting that dh and child come over soon. She literally once called every hour from morning until afternoon until they came over. That plus a hundred other experiences. I could not believe that someone I held so dear, included in nearly every outing and vacation, planned girls days with, would literally just gloss over me so readily when I finally had a need. That’s when I realized i basically existed as a function of having her needs met, and not as a real person she wanted to connect with and have real friendship with.

Wow, that's a lot to leave out of the story.

Well there are literally 1000 examples of my mil bulldozing over boundaries and being an inconsiderate human in relationships. It would take a novel to detail most of them. I tried to summarize it briefly by saying “my mil doesn’t have healthy boundaries”, which is an accurate depiction. I do see her compassionately though. I know a lot about her (I’ve known my husbands family since I was a teenager). She’s been through a lot and is just missing some major emotional developmental milestones, mostly rooted in her own childhood and then exacerbated by a retraumatizing marriage in adulthood.

I don't think not checking on you or taking care of you after surgery has anything to do about boundaries. I don't know what that is but it's not good. When you say she doesn't have healthy boundaries and then complain about her dropping something off and wanting to stay for dinner, you sound petty. But her not taking care of you -- like family -- after surgery is a big issue. I take back a lot of my posts mocking you about boundaries.

Fair point, thanks. And thanks for taking back the posts. Yea I think there is a bigger issue. Something around not being able to really connect with others, be vulnerable, be seen or see others for what they really need. All somehow pointing back to some insecurity or abandonment wound she has from way back where instead she interacts with people as a function of her needs.

But I needed some practical and the above gets too much into her psyche which I have long realized is not worth it as it’s not mine to hold or fix.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Agree with others who said to decline her offer from the get go. Keep her on a perpetual information diet. Never share your vacation plans or dinner plans ahead of time. If she is the type (like my mother) to fish for information from the kids, don’t tell them vacation plans either. This way she can’t buy a ticket and impose on you at the last minute or play the “the kids told me you’re going to X” or “the kids invited me to join you on X” card. She knows exactly what she is doing. It’s manipulative.

I agree with this, plus hosting her when you can because she's so lonely. But when I saw the headline I thought of my grandma who was not eating due to poor finances + poor executive function. So just in case, find out what she eats when she's alone and make sure she is getting meals.

You mean OP should hide in the bushes and look in her windows with binoculars? Because God forbid she actually interact with her.

OP is doing plenty of interacting, they just spent 9 days together! She could ask, casually. She could check the fridge when MIL hosts, which seems to be often.

Food insecurity is probably not the issue here, I admit. But it's a thing to keep in mind when an older person keeps turning up at meals. Even if they have money, they get bad at eating regularly by themselves.

Just to clear this up - my mil is wealthy and quite comfortable. Food insecurity definitely not an issue!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Agree with others who said to decline her offer from the get go. Keep her on a perpetual information diet. Never share your vacation plans or dinner plans ahead of time. If she is the type (like my mother) to fish for information from the kids, don’t tell them vacation plans either. This way she can’t buy a ticket and impose on you at the last minute or play the “the kids told me you’re going to X” or “the kids invited me to join you on X” card. She knows exactly what she is doing. It’s manipulative.

I agree with this, plus hosting her when you can because she's so lonely. But when I saw the headline I thought of my grandma who was not eating due to poor finances + poor executive function. So just in case, find out what she eats when she's alone and make sure she is getting meals.

OP here - I agree it’s manipulation too but still trying to work to somehow bring some level of harmony since neither of us will be moving away. I know because on one occasion in the past when we were discussing an event that someone else was hosting, I casually mentioned “well maybe x doesn’t want that”, to which she responded “oh don’t worry I know how to get what I want”. She is not oblivious but certainly a little mindless.

You seem like a nice person and I really believe that this person is overstepping. Something you said struck me -- that she could literally spend every day with you all and still not be satisfied.

If you find yourself feeling like a person is like a bucket with a hole in the bottom -- no matter how much you pour in, it will never be enough -- this is a person with borderline personality disorder. These people have a fear of abandonment and a desperate need to stay connected.

They don't change, but they do respond to very strict boundaries. Don't ever assume -- you have to be clear with her and push back when you don't want her around. Otherwise she will literally be there all the time and it still won't be enough to satisfy her need.

The people responding that you should be kinder probably don't have someone like this in their life. They have no clue how stressful and disturbing it is.

Read up on Borderline and see if it resonates.

Interesting… yes, she very much is like a bucket with absolutely no bottom. What I didn’t mention, because I didn’t think it was relevant to the story, is that for the first 7 years of marriage I absolutely poured into the bucket with no hesitation. I saw how lonely she was, despite being married - I think the emptiness of her marriage makes it worse actually, so I included her in things and was happy to accommodate her every push. Basically I was a pushover but a happy one because I don’t mind including others if it makes them happy.

It took many experiences to realize that she was actually totally self absorbed and oblivious to other people’s needs and boundaries if they interfered with her wants.

A turning point for me was when I had a series of chrinic health issue that involved a couple major surgery a few years back and was bedridden for a week after each surgery. She did not once ask me how I was doing, and instead spent the ensuing days of my recovery insisting that dh and child come over soon. She literally once called every hour from morning until afternoon until they came over. That plus a hundred other experiences. I could not believe that someone I held so dear, included in nearly every outing and vacation, planned girls days with, would literally just gloss over me so readily when I finally had a need. That’s when I realized i basically existed as a function of having her needs met, and not as a real person she wanted to connect with and have real friendship with.

Wow, that's a lot to leave out of the story.

Well there are literally 1000 examples of my mil bulldozing over boundaries and being an inconsiderate human in relationships. It would take a novel to detail most of them. I tried to summarize it briefly by saying “my mil doesn’t have healthy boundaries”, which is an accurate depiction. I do see her compassionately though. I know a lot about her (I’ve known my husbands family since I was a teenager). She’s been through a lot and is just missing some major emotional developmental milestones, mostly rooted in her own childhood and then exacerbated by a retraumatizing marriage in adulthood.

I don't think not checking on you or taking care of you after surgery has anything to do about boundaries. I don't know what that is but it's not good. When you say she doesn't have healthy boundaries and then complain about her dropping something off and wanting to stay for dinner, you sound petty. But her not taking care of you -- like family -- after surgery is a big issue. I take back a lot of my posts mocking you about boundaries.

Anonymous wrote:If this woman couldn’t be bothered to even inquire how OP was doing after major surgery, she is selfish and self-serving. She views OP as basically a delivery mechanism or access point for the people she really cares about: her own son and grandchild. Ugh, I would have dropped the rope a long time ago. Another tip is not to respond to every text or call from her and play the busy card. And stop vacationing with her. The more you give her, the more she’ll expect from you. Your family are not her emotional support animals. Her own husband is probably distant because he is burned out from the bottomless pit of need that she is.

Yea, good reminder to give her texts some space before I respond. I used to do this, and it helped a lot, and kind of forgot about it.

Alright thanks everyone, I got a lot more advice than I thought I would. This has been helpful, appreciate it! I’m done here and am grateful for this space and you all despite the haters! 😂

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Agree with others who said to decline her offer from the get go. Keep her on a perpetual information diet. Never share your vacation plans or dinner plans ahead of time. If she is the type (like my mother) to fish for information from the kids, don’t tell them vacation plans either. This way she can’t buy a ticket and impose on you at the last minute or play the “the kids told me you’re going to X” or “the kids invited me to join you on X” card. She knows exactly what she is doing. It’s manipulative.

I agree with this, plus hosting her when you can because she's so lonely. But when I saw the headline I thought of my grandma who was not eating due to poor finances + poor executive function. So just in case, find out what she eats when she's alone and make sure she is getting meals.

You mean OP should hide in the bushes and look in her windows with binoculars? Because God forbid she actually interact with her.

OP is doing plenty of interacting, they just spent 9 days together! She could ask, casually. She could check the fridge when MIL hosts, which seems to be often.

Food insecurity is probably not the issue here, I admit. But it's a thing to keep in mind when an older person keeps turning up at meals. Even if they have money, they get bad at eating regularly by themselves.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Agree with others who said to decline her offer from the get go. Keep her on a perpetual information diet. Never share your vacation plans or dinner plans ahead of time. If she is the type (like my mother) to fish for information from the kids, don’t tell them vacation plans either. This way she can’t buy a ticket and impose on you at the last minute or play the “the kids told me you’re going to X” or “the kids invited me to join you on X” card. She knows exactly what she is doing. It’s manipulative.

I agree with this, plus hosting her when you can because she's so lonely. But when I saw the headline I thought of my grandma who was not eating due to poor finances + poor executive function. So just in case, find out what she eats when she's alone and make sure she is getting meals.

OP here - I agree it’s manipulation too but still trying to work to somehow bring some level of harmony since neither of us will be moving away. I know because on one occasion in the past when we were discussing an event that someone else was hosting, I casually mentioned “well maybe x doesn’t want that”, to which she responded “oh don’t worry I know how to get what I want”. She is not oblivious but certainly a little mindless.

You seem like a nice person and I really believe that this person is overstepping. Something you said struck me -- that she could literally spend every day with you all and still not be satisfied.

If you find yourself feeling like a person is like a bucket with a hole in the bottom -- no matter how much you pour in, it will never be enough -- this is a person with borderline personality disorder. These people have a fear of abandonment and a desperate need to stay connected.

They don't change, but they do respond to very strict boundaries. Don't ever assume -- you have to be clear with her and push back when you don't want her around. Otherwise she will literally be there all the time and it still won't be enough to satisfy her need.

The people responding that you should be kinder probably don't have someone like this in their life. They have no clue how stressful and disturbing it is.

Read up on Borderline and see if it resonates.

Interesting… yes, she very much is like a bucket with absolutely no bottom. What I didn’t mention, because I didn’t think it was relevant to the story, is that for the first 7 years of marriage I absolutely poured into the bucket with no hesitation. I saw how lonely she was, despite being married - I think the emptiness of her marriage makes it worse actually, so I included her in things and was happy to accommodate her every push. Basically I was a pushover but a happy one because I don’t mind including others if it makes them happy.

It took many experiences to realize that she was actually totally self absorbed and oblivious to other people’s needs and boundaries if they interfered with her wants.

A turning point for me was when I had a series of chrinic health issue that involved a couple major surgery a few years back and was bedridden for a week after each surgery. She did not once ask me how I was doing, and instead spent the ensuing days of my recovery insisting that dh and child come over soon. She literally once called every hour from morning until afternoon until they came over. That plus a hundred other experiences. I could not believe that someone I held so dear, included in nearly every outing and vacation, planned girls days with, would literally just gloss over me so readily when I finally had a need. That’s when I realized i basically existed as a function of having her needs met, and not as a real person she wanted to connect with and have real friendship with.

Wow, that's a lot to leave out of the story.

Well there are literally 1000 examples of my mil bulldozing over boundaries and being an inconsiderate human in relationships. It would take a novel to detail most of them. I tried to summarize it briefly by saying “my mil doesn’t have healthy boundaries”, which is an accurate depiction. I do see her compassionately though. I know a lot about her (I’ve known my husbands family since I was a teenager). She’s been through a lot and is just missing some major emotional developmental milestones, mostly rooted in her own childhood and then exacerbated by a retraumatizing marriage in adulthood.

If this woman couldn’t be bothered to even inquire how OP was doing after major surgery, she is selfish and self-serving. She views OP as basically a delivery mechanism or access point for the people she really cares about: her own son and grandchild. Ugh, I would have dropped the rope a long time ago. Another tip is not to respond to every text or call from her and play the busy card. And stop vacationing with her. The more you give her, the more she’ll expect from you. Your family are not her emotional support animals. Her own husband is probably distant because he is burned out from the bottomless pit of need that she is.

Imagine being a mother, with a family, and all the years you raised your kids. They were your family. Now, you have no family at all, you may be widowed or divorced, and suddenly you are an acquaintance to your children's family.
She's still functioning as if this is her family, where the boundaries are nuanced differently for acquaintances, friends, and- or family, but now you are on the lowest rung. It isn't assumed that you would not just stay for dinner, or go on vacation with this extension of your family. She wouldn't do this anywhere else, but she thinks she has a family and acts like she is part of it.

Figure out with spouse who you want her to be, and when you want it. There can be boundaries, yes, but you be the one to tell her, no, this isn't her family anymore. She is only a guest and when invited.

When I was a kid, many of us lived in multigenerational homes. There wasn't an assumption of large divisional lines. Over the next 2 generations, those lines became stronger.

Make sure, though, there aren't details in this separation that you have maybe left out- does she do any childcare? Helped you out with money? Something like that? If so, rethink why Grandma is having trouble figuring out the boundary.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Agree with others who said to decline her offer from the get go. Keep her on a perpetual information diet. Never share your vacation plans or dinner plans ahead of time. If she is the type (like my mother) to fish for information from the kids, don’t tell them vacation plans either. This way she can’t buy a ticket and impose on you at the last minute or play the “the kids told me you’re going to X” or “the kids invited me to join you on X” card. She knows exactly what she is doing. It’s manipulative.

I agree with this, plus hosting her when you can because she's so lonely. But when I saw the headline I thought of my grandma who was not eating due to poor finances + poor executive function. So just in case, find out what she eats when she's alone and make sure she is getting meals.

OP here - I agree it’s manipulation too but still trying to work to somehow bring some level of harmony since neither of us will be moving away. I know because on one occasion in the past when we were discussing an event that someone else was hosting, I casually mentioned “well maybe x doesn’t want that”, to which she responded “oh don’t worry I know how to get what I want”. She is not oblivious but certainly a little mindless.

You seem like a nice person and I really believe that this person is overstepping. Something you said struck me -- that she could literally spend every day with you all and still not be satisfied.

If you find yourself feeling like a person is like a bucket with a hole in the bottom -- no matter how much you pour in, it will never be enough -- this is a person with borderline personality disorder. These people have a fear of abandonment and a desperate need to stay connected.

They don't change, but they do respond to very strict boundaries. Don't ever assume -- you have to be clear with her and push back when you don't want her around. Otherwise she will literally be there all the time and it still won't be enough to satisfy her need.

The people responding that you should be kinder probably don't have someone like this in their life. They have no clue how stressful and disturbing it is.

Read up on Borderline and see if it resonates.

Interesting… yes, she very much is like a bucket with absolutely no bottom. What I didn’t mention, because I didn’t think it was relevant to the story, is that for the first 7 years of marriage I absolutely poured into the bucket with no hesitation. I saw how lonely she was, despite being married - I think the emptiness of her marriage makes it worse actually, so I included her in things and was happy to accommodate her every push. Basically I was a pushover but a happy one because I don’t mind including others if it makes them happy.

It took many experiences to realize that she was actually totally self absorbed and oblivious to other people’s needs and boundaries if they interfered with her wants.

A turning point for me was when I had a series of chrinic health issue that involved a couple major surgery a few years back and was bedridden for a week after each surgery. She did not once ask me how I was doing, and instead spent the ensuing days of my recovery insisting that dh and child come over soon. She literally once called every hour from morning until afternoon until they came over. That plus a hundred other experiences. I could not believe that someone I held so dear, included in nearly every outing and vacation, planned girls days with, would literally just gloss over me so readily when I finally had a need. That’s when I realized i basically existed as a function of having her needs met, and not as a real person she wanted to connect with and have real friendship with.

Wow, that's a lot to leave out of the story.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Agree with others who said to decline her offer from the get go. Keep her on a perpetual information diet. Never share your vacation plans or dinner plans ahead of time. If she is the type (like my mother) to fish for information from the kids, don’t tell them vacation plans either. This way she can’t buy a ticket and impose on you at the last minute or play the “the kids told me you’re going to X” or “the kids invited me to join you on X” card. She knows exactly what she is doing. It’s manipulative.

I agree with this, plus hosting her when you can because she's so lonely. But when I saw the headline I thought of my grandma who was not eating due to poor finances + poor executive function. So just in case, find out what she eats when she's alone and make sure she is getting meals.

OP here - I agree it’s manipulation too but still trying to work to somehow bring some level of harmony since neither of us will be moving away. I know because on one occasion in the past when we were discussing an event that someone else was hosting, I casually mentioned “well maybe x doesn’t want that”, to which she responded “oh don’t worry I know how to get what I want”. She is not oblivious but certainly a little mindless.

You seem like a nice person and I really believe that this person is overstepping. Something you said struck me -- that she could literally spend every day with you all and still not be satisfied.

If you find yourself feeling like a person is like a bucket with a hole in the bottom -- no matter how much you pour in, it will never be enough -- this is a person with borderline personality disorder. These people have a fear of abandonment and a desperate need to stay connected.

They don't change, but they do respond to very strict boundaries. Don't ever assume -- you have to be clear with her and push back when you don't want her around. Otherwise she will literally be there all the time and it still won't be enough to satisfy her need.

The people responding that you should be kinder probably don't have someone like this in their life. They have no clue how stressful and disturbing it is.

Read up on Borderline and see if it resonates.

Interesting… yes, she very much is like a bucket with absolutely no bottom. What I didn’t mention, because I didn’t think it was relevant to the story, is that for the first 7 years of marriage I absolutely poured into the bucket with no hesitation. I saw how lonely she was, despite being married - I think the emptiness of her marriage makes it worse actually, so I included her in things and was happy to accommodate her every push. Basically I was a pushover but a happy one because I don’t mind including others if it makes them happy.

It took many experiences to realize that she was actually totally self absorbed and oblivious to other people’s needs and boundaries if they interfered with her wants.

A turning point for me was when I had a series of chrinic health issue that involved a couple major surgery a few years back and was bedridden for a week after each surgery. She did not once ask me how I was doing, and instead spent the ensuing days of my recovery insisting that dh and child come over soon. She literally once called every hour from morning until afternoon until they came over. That plus a hundred other experiences. I could not believe that someone I held so dear, included in nearly every outing and vacation, planned girls days with, would literally just gloss over me so readily when I finally had a need. That’s when I realized i basically existed as a function of having her needs met, and not as a real person she wanted to connect with and have real friendship with.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Agree with others who said to decline her offer from the get go. Keep her on a perpetual information diet. Never share your vacation plans or dinner plans ahead of time. If she is the type (like my mother) to fish for information from the kids, don’t tell them vacation plans either. This way she can’t buy a ticket and impose on you at the last minute or play the “the kids told me you’re going to X” or “the kids invited me to join you on X” card. She knows exactly what she is doing. It’s manipulative.

I agree with this, plus hosting her when you can because she's so lonely. But when I saw the headline I thought of my grandma who was not eating due to poor finances + poor executive function. So just in case, find out what she eats when she's alone and make sure she is getting meals.

OP here - I agree it’s manipulation too but still trying to work to somehow bring some level of harmony since neither of us will be moving away. I know because on one occasion in the past when we were discussing an event that someone else was hosting, I casually mentioned “well maybe x doesn’t want that”, to which she responded “oh don’t worry I know how to get what I want”. She is not oblivious but certainly a little mindless.

You seem like a nice person and I really believe that this person is overstepping. Something you said struck me -- that she could literally spend every day with you all and still not be satisfied.

If you find yourself feeling like a person is like a bucket with a hole in the bottom -- no matter how much you pour in, it will never be enough -- this is a person with borderline personality disorder. These people have a fear of abandonment and a desperate need to stay connected.

They don't change, but they do respond to very strict boundaries. Don't ever assume -- you have to be clear with her and push back when you don't want her around. Otherwise she will literally be there all the time and it still won't be enough to satisfy her need.

The people responding that you should be kinder probably don't have someone like this in their life. They have no clue how stressful and disturbing it is.

Read up on Borderline and see if it resonates.

LOL this actually made me laugh. "no matter how much you pour in it, it will never be enough" -- do you feel that way with your own kids? Like, OK, I spent time with them yesterday so why do I need to see them again today? No.

THe people responding that she should be kinder probably DO have people like this. They're called family members and there is literally nothing wrong with family members needing each other. Some people even like being part of an extended family. Imagine that.