Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That's interesting that doctors (so weird when they call themselves "physicians") still think dermatologists are "lesser." My friend's sister steered away from dermatology because the doctor parents looked down on it. Crazy.

Doctors don’t. Dermatology is one of the most difficult specialties to get into.

Anonymous wrote:Dude - you are way too enmeshed. It’s her life, let her live it. She calls you up to vent not for actual advice. Let her vent to you. Listen for the most part, be supportive and agreeable. Maybe encourage her to find a mentor at the hospital where she’s at. No clue why you are so bothered about the fiancé’s mom. Sounds like you have something against stay at home parents. I doubt that your sister is so easily influenced by the fiancé’s family. Let your sister figure it things out. Life can be very rough at times. Millions of doctors have gotten through residency. I bet your sister will too. The medical system is broken. Yet there are some amazing doctors doing incredible things for patients and making the best of it. Remind her that both things can be true

Anonymous wrote:That's interesting that doctors (so weird when they call themselves "physicians") still think dermatologists are "lesser." My friend's sister steered away from dermatology because the doctor parents looked down on it. Crazy.

Anonymous wrote:

Sounds like her fiance is an issue and has no business being engaged to a professional woman. He wants a stay at home wife or wife with a low paying low stress job to mother him, not the other way around. Possibly dump him, if she actually wants to work.

There were a few women in my med school class married to guys like this. Once the novelty of saying "I married a doctor" wore off for these guys they were super resentful of everything: the hours, the emasculation, the absence from home. They wanted a "normal" wife (words from one of those guys). Honestly these were starter marriages and the lucky women dumped these guys early. The ones who stuck it out ended up divorced in residency, but that was still better than the few who made it through residency only to have the guys leave and file for alimony once she started making money. Real winners, these guys.

Anonymous wrote:OP here, again. I guess I'll keep coming back.

I guess I'm at a loss as to what to say.

Personally, I'd love to be a physician! In my field I deal with on-the-ground fieldwork abroad, but there is obviously no "healing" or direct community service. I just died of boredom in organic chemistry in college so that was the end of that.

But, returning to the original point: "hang in there" or variations of "it will get better" (actually, what this thread and conversation with a physician ex-GF have made clear is that for the next three years, it in fact will not...) are not validating or helpful with her.

During her rotations, she would call me fascinated and super excited about what she was learning, the diversity of knowledge/experience, and also go on and on about how she loves (loved?) dealing directly, long-term with patients on cases. We spoke for an hour this morning (she's off today), and what's clear is that she seems to be really projecting her angst/anger at the hospital system, state of the medical field, and capitalism:

"Dude, how am I supposed to actually care for a patient when my resident calls me out for spending more than 10 minutes with them?! I want to get to know people as people. Not as a f***ing series of lab results. This is not medicine, this is a business.”

What am I supposed to say? What she is saying is in fact true.

Thinking out loud earlier on the phone, I suggested she consider kickboxing (face-palm, I know), because what I'm starting to realize is that it may be anger/ frustration with how the medical industry is configured that is alienating her from being able to actually connect with patients. She did a lot of service work at clinics in NE/SE DC in HS and in college, but that was through the aegis of an independent school and college. So it's not like she's not worked with underserved populations before, it has just been a different setting.

Also, there are in fact Gen Z dynamics,, which seem to be universal, based on what I’ve read about generational changes in the medical industry:

Sister: “No one, in any situation, should be punched in the face in their line of work. That is my boundary.”

Me: “Look Sister, you have to remember that patients are not only terrified and alienated when they enter the ER/hospital – particularly if they are coming from an underprivileged community – there is also a natural element of regression because they come to you for care…”

Sister: “I do not endorse violence in any circumstances. My friend got punched in the face. Was given 10 minutes to compose herself in a storage closet, and then had to go back to doing rounds and keep charting. How is that OK?????”

Me: “Wow. I can’t imagine – that sounds terrifying. It’s not OK. And you know if that ever happened to you, I’d want to beat that person up. But remember, they are your patient. Even as a resident, you are the physician. And, remember that they are in PAIN.”

Sister: “Mmmmm.”

To wrap-up this blast, my big concern, which I haven’t really unpacked before, because I personally don’t know how to address, is the fiancé, with whom there is a class dynamic at play. Backstory: neither fiancé’s mother or father went to university, and though her future FIL worked a physically demanding job, it was punch-in, punch-out. MIL-to-be was a stay at home mom. She baked her kids super elaborate birthday cakes, put notes in their lunchboxes, et cetera. This is not a statement invalidating emotional labor or “blue-collar” labor – union workers and mothers are the engines driving this country; it’s ultimately a concern that the fiancé may project low-key trad-wife, take-it-easy expectations on her. His mother’s kitchen literally has a plaque that reads “Don’t worry, be happy!” (or similar)...

So, while her fiancé is very, very supportive (e.g. takes on 70-80% of the household load... I myself would not do this. My sister can do her own laundry) and also relocated with her to an apartment walking distance to the hospital she works at (bad decision IMO; there should be some geographic separation between work and life), my concern is that he is unconsciously projecting trad-wife expectations onto her. Our mother, on the other hand, had a research career spanning several countries. So the dynamic I worry about from my future BIL is: “why put yourself through this, if you’re so miserable?” Dude is great otherwise. Values education. Government worker with terminal degree. But definitely not the grind.

Again, this is not to pass judgment on his mother’s class position; in fact, it speaks a great deal towards her love for her son and the great amount of [unpaid] emotional labor she did engage in while raising fiancé, but I’m worried this will make my sister eventually come to the conclusion: why am I bothering with this?

This morning, me: “Sister, look. Its three years. If you wanna specialize, you could do ID and transition to research; if you want, you can go group practice and treat people at some plush practice in Chevy Chase or Bethesda”.

Sister: “I would never do that. Rich people have enough doctors taking care of them already.”

Me: “Well………..”

I think at this point, I’m just venting. I’m also frustrated/annoyed because I recently took a tenure-track position in another city six months before she graduated medical school/matched and before, I literally would have been in the same city as her and been able to provide more in-person support. We come from a culture where siblings are very close, and were raised by our parents to mutually support each other. I just can’t tell if the conversation I had with her on Saturday (which really alarmed me and led to my rather rambling original post) is venting, or true, long-term concerns. And I’m also weary of over-stepping my role as older brother, because at a certain point, she must make her own decisions.

I did tell her to go into IB or consulting when she graduated college, but she insisted that capitalism is evil, and she wanted to serve and work hands-on with patients. She also has an instinctive, knee-jerk aversion to anything deemed “élite” or “high-prestige”, which is somewhat a product of our faith which places a huge premium on community service and social action. So, I think she ultimately feels that she is not practicing medicine; she is working for a university hospital that is at the whims of a corporate/board structure, so there is that element of broken idealism. That is what really worries me. Because broken idealism can spiral into nihilism very, very quickly.

So I’m trying to maintain credibility, but it feels hard because like I said, I was incredibly lucky – needless to say, privileged too – but literally, in my field, it was just luck; a prof emeritus died, so now I have a job.

TLDR: How do I address the fiancé issue? His mother has made comments at lunch like “Oh, don’t worry, I’ll do the dishes. I wouldn’t want X to damage her hands!”

(I was livid).

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here:

Also, "your sister is not cut out for medicine" is not needed or appreciated. I just can't tell if this is a passing fancy, or growing pains/adjustment. Aside from a year of research between college and med school, it is her first job.

This can't be concerned controlled on a free message board.

OP here. This may be the case, but honestly, I am now realizing that my motivation was to get support from the DCUM community as how to approach the situation individually (i.e. myself) as, for a number of personal biographical reasons, I am a significant figure in my sister's life. And, her stress is also impacting my own academic work.

The hate is unnecessary. Her expressed intention for going into IM was the diversity of procedures, before specializing further. Now, I worry that is all in question and years of graduate education may be at risk. Not to mention, years of private school tuition.

So, for those who call my sibling "spoiled" – ask yourself, how does it feel were the same applied to yourself, your own sibling, or child? Seems like unnecessary hate to put out in the world. I asked for actionable, specific advice. Trashing people is not actionable, except engaging in projective identification on your own part.

Also, I will end by saying – is this forum populated entirely by women? The snark re "spoiled" or "entitled" seems heavily gender-coded in a way that would not be applied to a man. Are the three blonde ladies from the White Lotus on this thread? This isn't a matter of not being able to take the heat – I am simply asking: what are you contributing to this conversation? Why are women in healing professions expected to be sacrificial lambs, whereas a man might – to my imagination, at least – be seen as a martyr?

I'll take input from physicians, parents of physician children, or spouses of the same, but otherwise, I am not interested in the petty resentment of DCUM posters who, for whatever, reason, seem invested in speaking derogatorily about loved ones. I can pass comment on my sister's psyche; ya'll cannot. This may be a public forum, but whatever happened to decorum? This is why this country is falling apart.

And finally, given the program she matched into, the one thing I can assure you above all is that there is was no issue with her board scores. I think the main triggering factor is the fellow resident – a young female, in her same year – getting punched in the face. Like I said, I myself am a university professor so I think what I am now realizing I am/was trying to do is – how do I maintain credibility in supporting or advising her, when she is right to call me out, I work in a completely different milieu. That said, AGI may kill the social sciences before I make tenure, so part of my frustration is that she has guaranteed job security and these days, social science academics do not.

Once again, I would like to reiterate my gratitude, particularly to those physicians who were detailed and went point-by-point. I do think the fiancé is an issue, but that ship has sailed. To those of you who project your own insecurities or misery onto others – I wish you a most thoroughly unpleasant day.