Anonymous wrote:Op - the underlying issue is the way you reacted to the situation. Others in this thread have mentioned it: you talked to the ref and that should've been enough. If you have a problem with the way these types of situations are handled in NVSL, be an adult and have a conversation with the league about it. You could have also mentioned it to the child's team after the meet. Don't go after the kid, his team, the results sheet (which I think is such a horrible action, it's laughable). I'm applaud Woodley's board for holding you accountable.

Anonymous wrote:Your own statements indicate you were scanning kids' private regions...Does that sound reasonable to you? What if the bulge you noticed ended up being something other than a male body part? What if the child had a growth in that region? Is the humiliation of the child worth it?

While I am against male in female sports even at the Woodley B team level, there is no way you can police this without causing more harm than good. You have caused more harm than good here.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You were wrong about everything. You had zero authority to do what you did.

- long time swim mom who is against trans girls competing with cis gender girls.

You seem to agree with me on the underlying issue; if so, how can I be wrong about everything?

I address my authority (or lack thereof) to act here: Woodley Suspension>Luis'Account>Speaking to the Offending Team>My Thoughts.

I'd be interested to hear how you've handled similar situations or if you haven't encountered similar situations, how you expect to change the current landscape vis a vis "trans girls competing with cis gender girls". For other readers, I suggest that you can avoid situations like mine by acting now and writing to your pool and league governing boards.

Jeez, you seriously need help.

1. You cursed. You claim it could have happened but don’t think so…and someone else says it did. Their memory stands uncontroverted.

2. You wrote “boy” on the results on the sheet for all to see.

3. You criticized mom and grandma publicly.

4. You took matters into your own hands when you did not like the result of your reporting.

5. There is not even independent confirmation (not from you) as to this kid’s gender.

And while these physiological differences don't matter in the vast majority of situations, they do matter in athletics, especially given the history of women's sports and the efforts we've had to go to as a society to ensure women have access to athletic opportunities.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You were wrong about everything. You had zero authority to do what you did.

- long time swim mom who is against trans girls competing with cis gender girls.

You seem to agree with me on the underlying issue; if so, how can I be wrong about everything?

I address my authority (or lack thereof) to act here: Woodley Suspension>Luis'Account>Speaking to the Offending Team>My Thoughts.

I'd be interested to hear how you've handled similar situations or if you haven't encountered similar situations, how you expect to change the current landscape vis a vis "trans girls competing with cis gender girls". For other readers, I suggest that you can avoid situations like mine by acting now and writing to your pool and league governing boards.

Jeez, you seriously need help.

1. You cursed. You claim it could have happened but don’t think so…and someone else says it did. Their memory stands uncontroverted.

2. You wrote “boy” on the results on the sheet for all to see.

3. You criticized mom and grandma publicly.

4. You took matters into your own hands when you did not like the result of your reporting.

5. There is not even independent confirmation (not from you) as to this kid’s gender.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not talking about what OP did here, but in general, how does it help to pretend that physiological differences don’t exist between those who are born male and born female, in a test of that physiology, within which males have a clear advantage?

I do feel that what OP did was honestly kind of reactive and immature, and doesn’t really do anything to enact change, and isn’t an example of “standing up for a cause” like he thinks it is. OP just took out his general political anger/discontentq on a visible example that appeared in front of him, and the force of that was disproportionate to the recipient and event, and that’s what makes it inappropriate.

This is where I land. I disagree with OP's actions and am bothered by the impact they could have on a kid who was just trying to enjoy a fun recreational swimming experience. It's frustrating in this thread to see OP asserting over and over that his actions were justified instead of trying to at least understand that even those of us who understand where he's coming from on this issue can't endorse his behavior.

But I also think these conversations would be much more productive if we could acknowledge obvious truths like: yes, there are physiological differences between girls/women and trans girls/women. And while these physiological differences don't matter in the vast majority of situations, they do matter in athletics, especially given the history of women's sports and the efforts we've had to go to as a society to ensure women have access to athletic opportunities.

I can condemn OP's behavior in this situation (it was a casual rec, non-league, meet and there were lots of other ways for him to register his concerns without getting aggressive with other parents or potentially humiliating a child in a public place) while also acknowledging that I share his frustration with how crazy-making the conversation around trans girls/women in sports can be.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not talking about what OP did here, but in general, how does it help to pretend that physiological differences don’t exist between those who are born male and born female, in a test of that physiology, within which males have a clear advantage?

I do feel that what OP did was honestly kind of reactive and immature, and doesn’t really do anything to enact change, and isn’t an example of “standing up for a cause” like he thinks it is. OP just took out his general political anger/discontentq on a visible example that appeared in front of him, and the force of that was disproportionate to the recipient and event, and that’s what makes it inappropriate.

This is where I land. I disagree with OP's actions and am bothered by the impact they could have on a kid who was just trying to enjoy a fun recreational swimming experience. It's frustrating in this thread to see OP asserting over and over that his actions were justified instead of trying to at least understand that even those of us who understand where he's coming from on this issue can't endorse his behavior.

But I also think these conversations would be much more productive if we could acknowledge obvious truths like: yes, there are physiological differences between girls/women and trans girls/women. And while these physiological differences don't matter in the vast majority of situations, they do matter in athletics, especially given the history of women's sports and the efforts we've had to go to as a society to ensure women have access to athletic opportunities.

I can condemn OP's behavior in this situation (it was a casual rec, non-league, meet and there were lots of other ways for him to register his concerns without getting aggressive with other parents or potentially humiliating a child in a public place) while also acknowledging that I share his frustration with how crazy-making the conversation around trans girls/women in sports can be.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You were wrong about everything. You had zero authority to do what you did.

- long time swim mom who is against trans girls competing with cis gender girls.

You seem to agree with me on the underlying issue; if so, how can I be wrong about everything?

I address my authority (or lack thereof) to act here: Woodley Suspension>Luis'Account>Speaking to the Offending Team>My Thoughts.

I'd be interested to hear how you've handled similar situations or if you haven't encountered similar situations, how you expect to change the current landscape vis a vis "trans girls competing with cis gender girls". For other readers, I suggest that you can avoid situations like mine by acting now and writing to your pool and league governing boards.

Anonymous wrote:Woodley Suspension

I am Luis Fernandez - currently suspended member of Woodley pool and subject of Virginia Dad Suspended From Pool After Calling Out Boy In Girls’ Races

I am posting these pages to try to encourage more of you to write to your pools and the NVSL board asking both to clarify the rules such that future NVSL events only include boys (males) swimming against boys in boys' events and girls (females) swimming against girls in girls' events.

The NVSL Board of Directors emails can be found here: https://www.mynvsl.com/contacts

I noticed that many of the posts in this DCUrbanMom.com forum thread were well considered, and for that reason I hope to engage with you all to push for fair competition in NVSL. I hope that many of you will write letters to your Community Pool Boards and NVSL to advocate for the clarification and enforcement of the rules concerning sex differentiated swim events.

I have nothing to hide about the whole affair and am willing to share basically everything. So if I get some good questions, I will try to engage. If the conversation degenerates, then I guess I'll ignore the thread.

FAQ

Luis’ Account

Exchange with the Board

Woodley Suspension

Anonymous wrote:Not talking about what OP did here, but in general, how does it help to pretend that physiological differences don’t exist between those who are born male and born female, in a test of that physiology, within which males have a clear advantage?

I do feel that what OP did was honestly kind of reactive and immature, and doesn’t really do anything to enact change, and isn’t an example of “standing up for a cause” like he thinks it is. OP just took out his general political anger/discontentq on a visible example that appeared in front of him, and the force of that was disproportionate to the recipient and event, and that’s what makes it inappropriate.

Anonymous wrote:Not talking about what OP did here, but in general, how does it help to pretend that physiological differences don’t exist between those who are born male and born female, in a test of that physiology, within which males have a clear advantage?

I do feel that what OP did was honestly kind of reactive and immature, and doesn’t really do anything to enact change, and isn’t an example of “standing up for a cause” like he thinks it is. OP just took out his general political anger/discontentq on a visible example that appeared in front of him, and the force of that was disproportionate to the recipient and event, and that’s what makes it inappropriate.