Anonymous wrote:Does your daughter like to run?
Cross Country is extremely rigorous, much more so than distance running, so they must love running. The practices are intense also.
If yes they will be hooked to it! Good luck!

My daughter is trans and will be joining the team at her school this year. She loves to run! And she is good at it too. We already know she’s fine competing locally.

But what’s going on with the statewide meets, and nationally? Just worried about her future if she sticks with XC.

duuuuuude... no one care about your experience from the 70s. it is not relevant to HS in 2025.

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Anonymous wrote:Why hasn’t she been running all summer? It’s incredible that people think they can just go join a team with no skill.

To be fair, we're talking about High School XC here, no skill involved.

Have you looked at the XC teams around here? There is definitely skill. And while the teams might be big only the top 10 compete in the invitational races

You are confusing athletic skill with work/training ethic, baseline genetics and capacity to suffer and push through discomfort, which is what is needed for HS XC.

At the base level for the vast majority of HS XC there is no skill involved except for a select few at the very top who understand how to race and utilize race strategy.

The top level in XC have both real talent and strength. Decidedly so. Even track focused guys can run three miles in XC very fast. On flat courses the per mile pace for boys in XC is 4:30, and you need wheels to do that. My late brother was a 4:05 high school miler in the 70’s, disliked XC, ran only 40 miles a week, and ran 14:05 for 5k in XC in high school. On that same 40 miles a week won a major college D1 XC championship (10k). This while running the school’s All American 4 x 4 in track. 46 second 400 talent is rare for a middle distance guy. He had no XC race strategy, other than to float along and on the right course for him you didn’t want him anywhere near you in the last 400m. Like Alan Webb, having speed and talent is a big advantage and guys like this are in no way just hard working grinders. In fact, limiting their mileage is often a success factor.,

Yes, as I said, no real skill, mostly work/training ethic, baseline genetics and capacity to suffer and push through discomfort at the HS level. Sounds like that was your brother.

My brother ran a 4:10 mile at age 15 on 20 miles a week. Not a 1600 - a mile. No super shoes - poor single mother home. You have no idea what you are talking about. Query what your experiences were as a D1 scholarship athlete? When you ran in the NCAA’s, what was your experience in terms of competing against real talent? I remember running against Joaquim Cruz and just being astonished at his speed and power. My brother was a low mileage guy and a NCAA All American in track. He chose the school because he liked school - a 4.0 phi beta kappa in math and Phd in Econ. He won his Power conference in XC one year, beating 3 foreign athletes over the last half mile. They knew darn well the level of his talent - surprised they didn’t push the pace.

In grad school he was tested at the Olympic development facility and they concluded he should have focused on the 800. This would have meant a lot of non running strength work, and he wanted to finish his PhD program in four years. He had talent. Don’t pontificate over matters over which you have little knowledge. I was trained by an Igloi disciple - a name if you know the sport is self authenticating. My god parent was the first to break four minutes indoors in the mile (on a lousy track). He had outrageous talent and was not a grinder. Of course your experience may inform differently.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why hasn’t she been running all summer? It’s incredible that people think they can just go join a team with no skill.

To be fair, we're talking about High School XC here, no skill involved.

Have you looked at the XC teams around here? There is definitely skill. And while the teams might be big only the top 10 compete in the invitational races

You are confusing athletic skill with work/training ethic, baseline genetics and capacity to suffer and push through discomfort, which is what is needed for HS XC.

At the base level for the vast majority of HS XC there is no skill involved except for a select few at the very top who understand how to race and utilize race strategy.

The top level in XC have both real talent and strength. Decidedly so. Even track focused guys can run three miles in XC very fast. On flat courses the per mile pace for boys in XC is 4:30, and you need wheels to do that. My late brother was a 4:05 high school miler in the 70’s, disliked XC, ran only 40 miles a week, and ran 14:05 for 5k in XC in high school. On that same 40 miles a week won a major college D1 XC championship (10k). This while running the school’s All American 4 x 4 in track. 46 second 400 talent is rare for a middle distance guy. He had no XC race strategy, other than to float along and on the right course for him you didn’t want him anywhere near you in the last 400m. Like Alan Webb, having speed and talent is a big advantage and guys like this are in no way just hard working grinders. In fact, limiting their mileage is often a success factor.,

Yes, as I said, no real skill, mostly work/training ethic, baseline genetics and capacity to suffer and push through discomfort at the HS level. Sounds like that was your brother.

The capacity to suffer and push through discomfort is itself a skill that requires consistent training and effort. Sure, high school cross country in an inclusive sport and there are some very unskilled participants, but that is also true of other high school sports. The top high school cross country runners, like the top soccer or lacrosse players, for example, have a very high level of skill.

Yeah, I would argue that training your mind to override your body’s screaming to stop is very much a skill.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why hasn’t she been running all summer? It’s incredible that people think they can just go join a team with no skill.

To be fair, we're talking about High School XC here, no skill involved.

Have you looked at the XC teams around here? There is definitely skill. And while the teams might be big only the top 10 compete in the invitational races

You are confusing athletic skill with work/training ethic, baseline genetics and capacity to suffer and push through discomfort, which is what is needed for HS XC.

At the base level for the vast majority of HS XC there is no skill involved except for a select few at the very top who understand how to race and utilize race strategy.

The top level in XC have both real talent and strength. Decidedly so. Even track focused guys can run three miles in XC very fast. On flat courses the per mile pace for boys in XC is 4:30, and you need wheels to do that. My late brother was a 4:05 high school miler in the 70’s, disliked XC, ran only 40 miles a week, and ran 14:05 for 5k in XC in high school. On that same 40 miles a week won a major college D1 XC championship (10k). This while running the school’s All American 4 x 4 in track. 46 second 400 talent is rare for a middle distance guy. He had no XC race strategy, other than to float along and on the right course for him you didn’t want him anywhere near you in the last 400m. Like Alan Webb, having speed and talent is a big advantage and guys like this are in no way just hard working grinders. In fact, limiting their mileage is often a success factor.,

Yes, as I said, no real skill, mostly work/training ethic, baseline genetics and capacity to suffer and push through discomfort at the HS level. Sounds like that was your brother.

The capacity to suffer and push through discomfort is itself a skill that requires consistent training and effort. Sure, high school cross country in an inclusive sport and there are some very unskilled participants, but that is also true of other high school sports. The top high school cross country runners, like the top soccer or lacrosse players, for example, have a very high level of skill.

Does your daughter like to run?
Cross Country is extremely rigorous, much more so than distance running, so they must love running. The practices are intense also.
If yes they will be hooked to it! Good luck!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why hasn’t she been running all summer? It’s incredible that people think they can just go join a team with no skill.

To be fair, we're talking about High School XC here, no skill involved.

Have you looked at the XC teams around here? There is definitely skill. And while the teams might be big only the top 10 compete in the invitational races

You are confusing athletic skill with work/training ethic, baseline genetics and capacity to suffer and push through discomfort, which is what is needed for HS XC.

At the base level for the vast majority of HS XC there is no skill involved except for a select few at the very top who understand how to race and utilize race strategy.

The top level in XC have both real talent and strength. Decidedly so. Even track focused guys can run three miles in XC very fast. On flat courses the per mile pace for boys in XC is 4:30, and you need wheels to do that. My late brother was a 4:05 high school miler in the 70’s, disliked XC, ran only 40 miles a week, and ran 14:05 for 5k in XC in high school. On that same 40 miles a week won a major college D1 XC championship (10k). This while running the school’s All American 4 x 4 in track. 46 second 400 talent is rare for a middle distance guy. He had no XC race strategy, other than to float along and on the right course for him you didn’t want him anywhere near you in the last 400m. Like Alan Webb, having speed and talent is a big advantage and guys like this are in no way just hard working grinders. In fact, limiting their mileage is often a success factor.,

Yes, as I said, no real skill, mostly work/training ethic, baseline genetics and capacity to suffer and push through discomfort at the HS level. Sounds like that was your brother.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What time is she expected to run? We need a starting point. Is below 10mins/mile the norm?

For freshman- our HS coach wants girls to be able to run under a 7minute mile. There is some wiggle room but that is the expectation. There is one returning girl who runs under 5 minutes. I know Robinson HS has 3-4 girls that run under 5 minutes.

I guess they can do that running as fast as possible for one mile…on a track?

The top XC HS runner in the country was at 17:31 in the national championships…which is much closer to 6 minutes than 5 minutes per mile.

1. of course. A girl who can run one 4:50 mile cannot run 3.1 4:50 miles.

2. XC courses vary a lot and are harder to run on than tracks. And championship meets are typically at not-easy courses.

I was fortunate enough to be a high school state runner up in Illinois in the 70’s. I was far better at track and the venerable course on the Illinois River below the bluffs in Peoria was not difficult and was flat. I attend the Oatlands state meet today run on a course in Leesburg and there was no way a runner with my skill set could do well on this very difficult and hilly course. The footing is rough and uneven too. Lots of respect for the young men and women on that course, and supports the point above that championship meets are at difficult courses. This is why performing well in cross country is so personally satisfying. Never really in my core skill set. Again, lots of respect to the young athletes, especially the mid packers who tough it out and score for their teams.

The best course I have seen in recent years is UVA’s Panorama Farms. A wealthy landowner leases this fantastic course to UVA and the high schools at nominal cost. The landowner of course gets to drive the 4 x 4 leading the pack! I went to the NCAA’s held there two years back. It is hilly, yet the footing is firm and fast. The vistas are beautiful. It is near the airport. For young people new to the sport, watching a meet there or running in one and grabbing lunch in Charlottesville thereafter is a great day. UVa’s home course in the 70’s was on a side of a mountain at the junior college and most of us dreaded running there, so Panorama Farms is such an improvement.

Actually the top 1600 time in VA was 4:43. She is not the top XC runner (close but not top)

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What time is she expected to run? We need a starting point. Is below 10mins/mile the norm?

For freshman- our HS coach wants girls to be able to run under a 7minute mile. There is some wiggle room but that is the expectation. There is one returning girl who runs under 5 minutes. I know Robinson HS has 3-4 girls that run under 5 minutes.

I guess they can do that running as fast as possible for one mile…on a track?

The top XC HS runner in the country was at 17:31 in the national championships…which is much closer to 6 minutes than 5 minutes per mile.

What? The top XC girl ran 16:32 at the national championships last year. And a 4:23 mile on the track.

The top high school girl runner in VA last year ran 16:54. That's a 5:26 mile.

She ran a 4:52 mile on the track. Seems like you are trying to minimize the accomplishment? A 16:54 XC 5k is extremely impressive.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What time is she expected to run? We need a starting point. Is below 10mins/mile the norm?

For freshman- our HS coach wants girls to be able to run under a 7minute mile. There is some wiggle room but that is the expectation. There is one returning girl who runs under 5 minutes. I know Robinson HS has 3-4 girls that run under 5 minutes.

I guess they can do that running as fast as possible for one mile…on a track?

The top XC HS runner in the country was at 17:31 in the national championships…which is much closer to 6 minutes than 5 minutes per mile.

What? The top XC girl ran 16:32 at the national championships last year. And a 4:23 mile on the track.

The top high school girl runner in VA last year ran 16:54. That's a 5:26 mile.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What time is she expected to run? We need a starting point. Is below 10mins/mile the norm?

For freshman- our HS coach wants girls to be able to run under a 7minute mile. There is some wiggle room but that is the expectation. There is one returning girl who runs under 5 minutes. I know Robinson HS has 3-4 girls that run under 5 minutes.

For cross country? There were 24 girls in the state of VA who ran a sub 5 minute mile last track season. At that is one mile around a completely flat track. Not multiple miles on a hilly XC course.

They are counting the 1600 as a mile, which is fair.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:At our FCPS school- there is never an opportunity for everyone to run

That's the impression we get. How do kids keep motivated if they never see a race? It doesn't seem inclusive to me.

Can only speak to my kid’s school, but half the kids (the fastest ones) are 100% about XC, and the other half do it to be fit for another sport. But they still like to support the kids who do race.

This the same at my daughter's school. Most of the top runners are dedicated long distance runners all year long including XC, and indoor, outdoor, and club track. And then there are the random good athletes who can show up an run fast enough to be part of the top group without training all year long since they were in middle school.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What time is she expected to run? We need a starting point. Is below 10mins/mile the norm?

For freshman- our HS coach wants girls to be able to run under a 7minute mile. There is some wiggle room but that is the expectation. There is one returning girl who runs under 5 minutes. I know Robinson HS has 3-4 girls that run under 5 minutes.

For cross country? There were 24 girls in the state of VA who ran a sub 5 minute mile last track season. At that is one mile around a completely flat track. Not multiple miles on a hilly XC course.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What time is she expected to run? We need a starting point. Is below 10mins/mile the norm?

For freshman- our HS coach wants girls to be able to run under a 7minute mile. There is some wiggle room but that is the expectation. There is one returning girl who runs under 5 minutes. I know Robinson HS has 3-4 girls that run under 5 minutes.

I guess they can do that running as fast as possible for one mile…on a track?

The top XC HS runner in the country was at 17:31 in the national championships…which is much closer to 6 minutes than 5 minutes per mile.

What? The top XC girl ran 16:32 at the national championships last year. And a 4:23 mile on the track.