Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes you can typically change behavior without meds. I would find a Behavior Analyst and get a behavioral evaluation done then go from there.

FWIW this worked well for us at home but not at all with school or camp.

Are you OP? A good Behavior Analyst will be able to help you with both. I’ve worked probably 100 camps and just as many schools in my lifetime. Just let the BA know during the evaluation that you’d like that to be your focus. You’ll want to look for an individual that works in the home as opposed to a clinic.

The ABA cannot be in school and camps and a non-SN camp or school just won’t really ever have that much fidelity to a BIP. behavioral therapy worked at home because I implemented it but school and camps generally could never do it as well.

As a general statement this is simply not true. I’ve had success in both school and camp many times over. Also, don’t need a full BIP to go to camp or work in a school- a BIP is typically reserved for severe problem behavior.

Well we are talking about behavior severe enough to medicate - so that’s the conversation. And no, most schools don’t have an ABA on staff and won’t follow the best written BIP. Camps either. The problem with my type of kid is that there is no argument to give them a 1:1. If your kid is having repeated explosive episodes at school trying meds is reasonable especially if the alternative is a more restrictive setting. BTDT.

Just because a behavior is severe enough to medicate does not mean you would need a BIP.

Many school systems employ Behavior Analysts and others contract them out. A camp situation would be private pay. You would almost never need a BIP in a summer camp. You do not always need a BIP in a school system to justify utilizing a BA.

Whether or not you medicate makes zero difference to me- that’s your parental right.

My answer to OPs question remains that yes, you can (in most cases) change behavior without needing medication.

To the OP’s original question — yes we’ve found therapy to be transformational for our kid. Ours was also kicked out of camp, getting sent home from school, etc. Play therapy was moderately helpful. Then we did filial therapy and that was a game changer for us.

DC has been diagnosed with ADHD and is having academic problems so we are looking into medication for that. But behavior is no longer an issue.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honestly, no, my son was removed from school in 2nd grade and didnt return full time until we foumd the right meds. But in general puberty does make kids with adhd chill a bit. So even those unmedicated tend to mature and fit in by middle school. Their brains just take longer to get there and the medication helps in the meantime. You have to consider how much damage you cause along the way to see if it's worthwhile. After medication my son is a gifted and well liked student, academically high acheiving, on multiple sports teams, has a ton of friends and loves life. Without meds he wouldn't have been successful. We are now looking at cutting back meds to see if he has matured and learned enough coping skills with age. I am grateful he had what he needed to get where he is.

NOT in girls

This is PP and agree! I almosr typed boys because that is the sample i know best between nephews, friends, my own son. I have not seen it happen with girls, bit can understand that it isnt the same idea! For boys the hyper active annoying behavior chills with age.

Ours is a relatively mild ADHD. He could have passed without meds. Just wouldn't have many friends. But wow the meds. I'm such a fan. It was a battle with DH for about 6 months to get him to agree. It didn't take much to help so much. The school didn't think he was ADHD. So I'm in the camp to push for diagnosis and remember there's a wide range of meds. Doesn't have to be stimulants. Agree with a PP, I wouldn't do SSRIs under 13. Good luck and congrats on being so on top of it!

Medication is what worked for us. But I'm not sure how you'd even get medication if your child has no diagnosis. I do find it hard to believe that he has nothing diagnosable, though, if he's having this much trouble. Maybe try again for an eval?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes you can typically change behavior without meds. I would find a Behavior Analyst and get a behavioral evaluation done then go from there.

FWIW this worked well for us at home but not at all with school or camp.

Are you OP? A good Behavior Analyst will be able to help you with both. I’ve worked probably 100 camps and just as many schools in my lifetime. Just let the BA know during the evaluation that you’d like that to be your focus. You’ll want to look for an individual that works in the home as opposed to a clinic.

The ABA cannot be in school and camps and a non-SN camp or school just won’t really ever have that much fidelity to a BIP. behavioral therapy worked at home because I implemented it but school and camps generally could never do it as well.

As a general statement this is simply not true. I’ve had success in both school and camp many times over. Also, don’t need a full BIP to go to camp or work in a school- a BIP is typically reserved for severe problem behavior.

Well we are talking about behavior severe enough to medicate - so that’s the conversation. And no, most schools don’t have an ABA on staff and won’t follow the best written BIP. Camps either. The problem with my type of kid is that there is no argument to give them a 1:1. If your kid is having repeated explosive episodes at school trying meds is reasonable especially if the alternative is a more restrictive setting. BTDT.

Anonymous wrote:Honestly, no, my son was removed from school in 2nd grade and didnt return full time until we foumd the right meds. But in general puberty does make kids with adhd chill a bit. So even those unmedicated tend to mature and fit in by middle school. Their brains just take longer to get there and the medication helps in the meantime. You have to consider how much damage you cause along the way to see if it's worthwhile. After medication my son is a gifted and well liked student, academically high acheiving, on multiple sports teams, has a ton of friends and loves life. Without meds he wouldn't have been successful. We are now looking at cutting back meds to see if he has matured and learned enough coping skills with age. I am grateful he had what he needed to get where he is.

NOT in girls

Honestly, no, my son was removed from school in 2nd grade and didnt return full time until we foumd the right meds. But in general puberty does make kids with adhd chill a bit. So even those unmedicated tend to mature and fit in by middle school. Their brains just take longer to get there and the medication helps in the meantime. You have to consider how much damage you cause along the way to see if its worthwhile. After medication my son is a gifted and well liked student, academically high acheiving, on multiple sports teams, has a ton of friends and loves life. Without meds he wouldn't have been successful. We are now looking at cutting back meds to see if he has matured and learned enough coping skills with age. I am grateful he had what he needed to get where he is.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes you can typically change behavior without meds. I would find a Behavior Analyst and get a behavioral evaluation done then go from there.

FWIW this worked well for us at home but not at all with school or camp.

Are you OP? A good Behavior Analyst will be able to help you with both. I’ve worked probably 100 camps and just as many schools in my lifetime. Just let the BA know during the evaluation that you’d like that to be your focus. You’ll want to look for an individual that works in the home as opposed to a clinic.

The ABA cannot be in school and camps and a non-SN camp or school just won’t really ever have that much fidelity to a BIP. behavioral therapy worked at home because I implemented it but school and camps generally could never do it as well.

As a general statement this is simply not true. I’ve had success in both school and camp many times over. Also, don’t need a full BIP to go to camp or work in a school- a BIP is typically reserved for severe problem behavior.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes you can typically change behavior without meds. I would find a Behavior Analyst and get a behavioral evaluation done then go from there.

FWIW this worked well for us at home but not at all with school or camp.

Are you OP? A good Behavior Analyst will be able to help you with both. I’ve worked probably 100 camps and just as many schools in my lifetime. Just let the BA know during the evaluation that you’d like that to be your focus. You’ll want to look for an individual that works in the home as opposed to a clinic.

The ABA cannot be in school and camps and a non-SN camp or school just won’t really ever have that much fidelity to a BIP. behavioral therapy worked at home because I implemented it but school and camps generally could never do it as well.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes you can typically change behavior without meds. I would find a Behavior Analyst and get a behavioral evaluation done then go from there.

FWIW this worked well for us at home but not at all with school or camp.

Are you OP? A good Behavior Analyst will be able to help you with both. I’ve worked probably 100 camps and just as many schools in my lifetime. Just let the BA know during the evaluation that you’d like that to be your focus. You’ll want to look for an individual that works in the home as opposed to a clinic.

Anonymous wrote:Yes you can typically change behavior without meds. I would find a Behavior Analyst and get a behavioral evaluation done then go from there.

FWIW this worked well for us at home but not at all with school or camp.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
What are your fears about meds? Try to remember that we have pretty intense bias towards not intervening - we vastly underestimate the side effects of not medicating (which can be great) while worrying intensely about the potential side effects of medications. Your child’s sense of self worth is worth a whole lot and a potential side effect impacted by continued negative experiences with difficulty managing these things that may not be his fault. I know it’s tough. I struggled with it to. But may be worth considering what you’re worried about. Many of us find we wish we had done it sooner, most threads you’ll find on here you see parents sharing that

OP here - first, the fact that no one (among our therapists and pediatrician) is recommending medication, so it is mostly something other people seem to be doing and I would have to press for. Second, DC won't even do vitamins or cough syrup, so I imagine medication would be very difficult logistically, and forcing it may be its own trauma. Third, all the reasons other people hesitate - concern it is not needed and may interfere with development, potential side effects, having behavior worsen trying to find right med.

Makes sense - when you say formal eval do you mean neuropsych? Who have you seen that evaled for adhd? (Curious why the play therapist is saying a lot of characteristics but isn’t diagnosing for example since therapists can make an ADHD diagnosis. I would ask, does he meet the DSM criteria for the diagnosis? - has she given you a vanderbuilt assessment scale that you and the teacher could fill out? Has anyone? Those can be really helpful) agreed you obviously wouldn’t want to medicate for ADHD without a diagnosis. Sometimes I see people are seeing professionals that aren’t the ones that give these diagnoses and that’s why they aren’t getting them (OT, parent training coaches etc)

It’s possible that therapists can make the diagnosis — but can’t make a recommendation for medications, which they are not licensed to prescribe. The therapist might say something like: “Many kids with these kinds of behaviors can benefit from medication. “ And then either make a referral or get a release to coordinate with the pediatrician.

Yes you can typically change behavior without meds. I would find a Behavior Analyst and get a behavioral evaluation done then go from there.

Anonymous wrote:OP again - we had a full neuropsych and the diagnosis was adjustment disorder due to certain changes with the recommendation to revisit in a few years. Behavior issues and minor sensory issues are our main symptoms and the therapists have attributed them as potentially due to ADHD or anxiety, but DC doesn't fit all the criteria.

I have actually been taking a dog training class (for my dog, not my child), and dog training is all about positive reinforcement, not punishment/consequences.

Anyhow, all these perspectives have been very helpful.

Yeah, there are balanced dog trainers out there but they are hard to find nowadays. Still necessary though.