Anonymous wrote:Why should we invest in science, Democrats will just give the technology to China. Why because building semiconductors is for peasants. They'll then bring a bunch of F1, H1b and what not here on temporary visas, have us train them then claim we don't have any skills. But when we do they have to go home. Oh and by the way Democrats want us to fund our competition.

These threads comparing investments in science make no sense. Let the Indians and Chinese pay for their own training.

Prime example Elon took our tech went and built a giga factory in China, now BYD is totally killing Tesla. But first Elon made enough money to wreak havoc on our political system even now he's meeting with China on these things.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are we first in anything?

First to develop a nuclear bomb. There’s that. Imagine how different world would’ve been if it was Soviet Union.

You rank hypocrite!

Look how many immigrants were involved in the development of the nuclear bomb

Now I know what your tiny maga mind is saying. "Well those aren't the illegals Trump is rounding up."

No one important in science wants to come to the U.S. with this crazy man in power. We are slowly losing the economic draw that would bring people here.

Watch a see. And try to learn from the past if you insist on living there.

Other posters just mention that science will be done elsewhere. So why does science have to be done here at taxpayers expense?

How is science different from manufacturing?

What is the ROI of 20 years of govt grants for one R&D project?
It’s low enough the private sector isn’t interested.

Private sector absolutely loves projects funded by government R&D grants and programs.

The Internet, for one. Developed by DARPA for the military and research, later on got a big government cash infusion to create the commercial backbone (yes, that was Al Gore). Multi-trillion dollar economy

GPS. Developed by DoD, now used in phones, logistics, everything

Touchscreens. Developed with funding by NSF and CIA

Microchips. Developed with funding from DARPA and NASA

LEDs - red LEDs first developed by Air Force funded project in the 1960s, now ubiquitous for lighting and all across the color spectrum

Accelerometers - used in cars, pacemakers, phones - funded by NIST and DoD

MRI - developed through NSF grant

LASIK eye surgery - NSF grant

CRISPR gene editing - NSF and NIH

Flu, Hepatitis B and other vaccines developed using NIH funding

Duolingo - NSF grant funding to develop and launch

Doppler radar for storm tracking - NSF funded research

Barcodes, closed captioning, many other technologies developed through NSF research

Satellites, deep sea exploration, 3D seismic imaging, and on and on and on

It frankly sickens me when Republicans take all of this for granted and for some reason thinks government does nothing and that everything we have is solely thanks to capitalists and billionaire investors, who the government mooches off of by making them pay taxes, when in fact most of it is the exact opposite, they made their billions thanks to government infrastructure and investments.

I think it was Oscar Wilde, who in the 1890s said "What is a cynic? A man who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing."

That so very much applies to modern American conservatives. They are fixated on the price tag of everything while being completely unaware of the true value of these things. They fail to comprehend the vast ROI of government investments. They complain about the cost of a clean river but ignore the worth of a child who drinks water from it. They will quote the market value of a tree but ignore the value of having clean air to breathe.

Dude, you just listed a bunch of stuff the public sector did decades of R&D on. Then eventually commercialized way later with privates.

The other 99% are just long duration science experiments.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are we first in anything?

First to develop a nuclear bomb. There’s that. Imagine how different world would’ve been if it was Soviet Union.

You rank hypocrite!

Look how many immigrants were involved in the development of the nuclear bomb

Now I know what your tiny maga mind is saying. "Well those aren't the illegals Trump is rounding up."

No one important in science wants to come to the U.S. with this crazy man in power. We are slowly losing the economic draw that would bring people here.

Watch a see. And try to learn from the past if you insist on living there.

Other posters just mention that science will be done elsewhere. So why does science have to be done here at taxpayers expense?

How is science different from manufacturing?

What is the ROI of 20 years of govt grants for one R&D project?
It’s low enough the private sector isn’t interested.

Private sector absolutely loves projects funded by government R&D grants and programs.

The Internet, for one. Developed by DARPA for the military and research, later on got a big government cash infusion to create the commercial backbone (yes, that was Al Gore). Multi-trillion dollar economy

GPS. Developed by DoD, now used in phones, logistics, everything

Touchscreens. Developed with funding by NSF and CIA

Microchips. Developed with funding from DARPA and NASA

LEDs - red LEDs first developed by Air Force funded project in the 1960s, now ubiquitous for lighting and all across the color spectrum

Accelerometers - used in cars, pacemakers, phones - funded by NIST and DoD

MRI - developed through NSF grant

LASIK eye surgery - NSF grant

CRISPR gene editing - NSF and NIH

Flu, Hepatitis B and other vaccines developed using NIH funding

Duolingo - NSF grant funding to develop and launch

Doppler radar for storm tracking - NSF funded research

Barcodes, closed captioning, many other technologies developed through NSF research

Satellites, deep sea exploration, 3D seismic imaging, and on and on and on

It frankly sickens me when Republicans take all of this for granted and for some reason thinks government does nothing and that everything we have is solely thanks to capitalists and billionaire investors, who the government mooches off of by making them pay taxes, when in fact most of it is the exact opposite, they made their billions thanks to government infrastructure and investments.

I think it was Oscar Wilde, who in the 1890s said "What is a cynic? A man who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing."

That so very much applies to modern American conservatives. They are fixated on the price tag of everything while being completely unaware of the true value of these things. They fail to comprehend the vast ROI of government investments. They complain about the cost of a clean river but ignore the worth of a child who drinks water from it. They will quote the market value of a tree but ignore the value of having clean air to breathe.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are we first in anything?

First to develop a nuclear bomb. There’s that. Imagine how different world would’ve been if it was Soviet Union.

You rank hypocrite!

Look how many immigrants were involved in the development of the nuclear bomb

Now I know what your tiny maga mind is saying. "Well those aren't the illegals Trump is rounding up."

No one important in science wants to come to the U.S. with this crazy man in power. We are slowly losing the economic draw that would bring people here.

Watch a see. And try to learn from the past if you insist on living there.

Other posters just mention that science will be done elsewhere. So why does science have to be done here at taxpayers expense?

How is science different from manufacturing?

What is the ROI of 20 years of govt grants for one R&D project?
It’s low enough the private sector isn’t interested.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are we first in anything?

First to develop a nuclear bomb. There’s that. Imagine how different world would’ve been if it was Soviet Union.

You rank hypocrite!

Look how many immigrants were involved in the development of the nuclear bomb

Now I know what your tiny maga mind is saying. "Well those aren't the illegals Trump is rounding up."

No one important in science wants to come to the U.S. with this crazy man in power. We are slowly losing the economic draw that would bring people here.

Watch a see. And try to learn from the past if you insist on living there.

Other posters just mention that science will be done elsewhere. So why does science have to be done here at taxpayers expense?

How is science different from manufacturing?

What is the ROI of 20 years of govt grants for one R&D project?
It’s low enough the private sector isn’t interested.

Private sector absolutely loves projects funded by government R&D grants and programs.

The Internet, for one. Developed by DARPA for the military and research, later on got a big government cash infusion to create the commercial backbone (yes, that was Al Gore). Multi-trillion dollar economy

GPS. Developed by DoD, now used in phones, logistics, everything

Touchscreens. Developed with funding by NSF and CIA

Microchips. Developed with funding from DARPA and NASA

LEDs - red LEDs first developed by Air Force funded project in the 1960s, now ubiquitous for lighting and all across the color spectrum

Accelerometers - used in cars, pacemakers, phones - funded by NIST and DoD

MRI - developed through NSF grant

LASIK eye surgery - NSF grant

CRISPR gene editing - NSF and NIH

Flu, Hepatitis B and other vaccines developed using NIH funding

Duolingo - NSF grant funding to develop and launch

Doppler radar for storm tracking - NSF funded research

Barcodes, closed captioning, many other technologies developed through NSF research

Satellites, deep sea exploration, 3D seismic imaging, and on and on and on

It frankly sickens me when Republicans take all of this for granted and for some reason thinks government does nothing and that everything we have is solely thanks to capitalists and billionaire investors, who the government mooches off of by making them pay taxes, when in fact most of it is the exact opposite, they made their billions thanks to government infrastructure and investments.

I think it was Oscar Wilde, who in the 1890s said "What is a cynic? A man who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing."

That so very much applies to modern American conservatives. They are fixated on the price tag of everything while being completely unaware of the true value of these things. They fail to comprehend the vast ROI of government investments. They complain about the cost of a clean river but ignore the worth of a child who drinks water from it. They will quote the market value of a tree but ignore the value of having clean air to breathe.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are we first in anything?

First to develop a nuclear bomb. There’s that. Imagine how different world would’ve been if it was Soviet Union.

You rank hypocrite!

Look how many immigrants were involved in the development of the nuclear bomb

Now I know what your tiny maga mind is saying. "Well those aren't the illegals Trump is rounding up."

No one important in science wants to come to the U.S. with this crazy man in power. We are slowly losing the economic draw that would bring people here.

Watch a see. And try to learn from the past if you insist on living there.

Other posters just mention that science will be done elsewhere. So why does science have to be done here at taxpayers expense?

How is science different from manufacturing?

What is the ROI of 20 years of govt grants for one R&D project?
It’s low enough the private sector isn’t interested.

Private sector absolutely loves projects funded by government R&D grants and programs.

The Internet, for one. Developed by DARPA for the military and research, later on got a big government cash infusion to create the commercial backbone (yes, that was Al Gore). Multi-trillion dollar economy

GPS. Developed by DoD, now used in phones, logistics, everything

Touchscreens. Developed with funding by NSF and CIA

Microchips. Developed with funding from DARPA and NASA

LEDs - red LEDs first developed by Air Force funded project in the 1960s, now ubiquitous for lighting and all across the color spectrum

Accelerometers - used in cars, pacemakers, phones - funded by NIST and DoD

MRI - developed through NSF grant

LASIK eye surgery - NSF grant

CRISPR gene editing - NSF and NIH

Flu, Hepatitis B and other vaccines developed using NIH funding

Duolingo - NSF grant funding to develop and launch

Doppler radar for storm tracking - NSF funded research

Barcodes, closed captioning, many other technologies developed through NSF research

Satellites, deep sea exploration, 3D seismic imaging, and on and on and on

It frankly sickens me when Republicans take all of this for granted and for some reason thinks government does nothing and that everything we have is solely thanks to capitalists and billionaire investors, who the government mooches off of by making them pay taxes, when in fact most of it is the exact opposite, they made their billions thanks to government infrastructure and investments.

I think it was Oscar Wilde, who in the 1890s said "What is a cynic? A man who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing."

That so very much applies to modern American conservatives. They are fixated on the price tag of everything while being completely unaware of the true value of these things. They fail to comprehend the vast ROI of government investments. They complain about the cost of a clean river but ignore the worth of a child who drinks water from it. They will quote the market value of a tree but ignore the value of having clean air to breathe.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are we first in anything?

First to develop a nuclear bomb. There’s that. Imagine how different world would’ve been if it was Soviet Union.

You rank hypocrite!

Look how many immigrants were involved in the development of the nuclear bomb

Now I know what your tiny maga mind is saying. "Well those aren't the illegals Trump is rounding up."

No one important in science wants to come to the U.S. with this crazy man in power. We are slowly losing the economic draw that would bring people here.

Watch a see. And try to learn from the past if you insist on living there.

Other posters just mention that science will be done elsewhere. So why does science have to be done here at taxpayers expense?

How is science different from manufacturing?

What is the ROI of 20 years of govt grants for one R&D project?
It’s low enough the private sector isn’t interested.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why should we invest in science, Democrats will just give the technology to China. Why because building semiconductors is for peasants. They'll then bring a bunch of F1, H1b and what not here on temporary visas, have us train them then claim we don't have any skills. But when we do they have to go home. Oh and by the way Democrats want us to fund our competition.

These threads comparing investments in science make no sense. Let the Indians and Chinese pay for their own training.

Prime example Elon took our tech went and built a giga factory in China, now BYD is totally killing Tesla. But first Elon made enough money to wreak havoc on our political system even now he's meeting with China on these things.

You say this as a member of a party that was funded by Sheldon Adelson for 20 years. Sheldon Adelson got all his money from the Chinese and was controlled and allowed to exist by the Chinese. Now let’s talk about Rupert Murdoch and Fox’s control of the Republican Party. Again another person controlled by the Chinese who dictated pro Chinese position for years. The Republicans party and maga are owned and controlled by the Chinese.

So sorry but republicans are one and the same as the Chinese communists party.

Anonymous wrote:Why should we invest in science, Democrats will just give the technology to China. Why because building semiconductors is for peasants. They'll then bring a bunch of F1, H1b and what not here on temporary visas, have us train them then claim we don't have any skills. But when we do they have to go home. Oh and by the way Democrats want us to fund our competition.

These threads comparing investments in science make no sense. Let the Indians and Chinese pay for their own training.

Prime example Elon took our tech went and built a giga factory in China, now BYD is totally killing Tesla. But first Elon made enough money to wreak havoc on our political system even now he's meeting with China on these things.

Anonymous wrote:It is really hard to believe this is what we want: https://www.nytimes.com/2025/07/10/science/trump-science-budget-cuts.html

Just a quote from that article: he $154 billion figure the smallest amount that the federal government has spent on science in this century. ... The proposed drop in federal funding for science research, if approved by Congress, could let China match or take the lead in global science investments, Ms. Zimmermann said. ... In April, the science group published figures showing that China had greatly increased support for its scientific enterprise in the past two decades. As of 2023 — the most recent year available for comparisons — China’s investment was close to equaling that of the United States.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are we first in anything?

First to develop a nuclear bomb. There’s that. Imagine how different world would’ve been if it was Soviet Union.

You rank hypocrite!

Look how many immigrants were involved in the development of the nuclear bomb

Now I know what your tiny maga mind is saying. "Well those aren't the illegals Trump is rounding up."

No one important in science wants to come to the U.S. with this crazy man in power. We are slowly losing the economic draw that would bring people here.

Watch a see. And try to learn from the past if you insist on living there.

Other posters just mention that science will be done elsewhere. So why does science have to be done here at taxpayers expense?

How is science different from manufacturing?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are we first in anything?

First to develop a nuclear bomb. There’s that. Imagine how different world would’ve been if it was Soviet Union.

You rank hypocrite!

Look how many immigrants were involved in the development of the nuclear bomb

Now I know what your tiny maga mind is saying. "Well those aren't the illegals Trump is rounding up."

No one important in science wants to come to the U.S. with this crazy man in power. We are slowly losing the economic draw that would bring people here.

Watch an see. And try to learn from the past if you insist on living there.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is there any actually coherent plan behind this?

The coherent plan is for everyone not in the .01% to be one of four things: dead, incarcerated, a serf toiling at a minimum wage job to further enrich the billionaires, or “self deported” (the proper term is “flee”, but MAGA doesn’t like that because then it sounds like they’re the bad guys creating the conditions that are forcing people to flee. Which they are.)

That’s the logical end result when you defund science, education, medical research, climate research, and weather forecasting, and throw billions of dollars at ICE in a country that already has one of the highest incarceration rates in the world.

This voluntary regression to the dark ages isn’t entirely due to stupidity. It’s deliberate. It’s herd culling.

This is insightful. An underlying principle for MAGA is that they don’t respect people they don’t know. MAGA assumes the worst about everyone outside their bubble - they are all scammers trying to steal money (via government programs) from their families. You can’t build a society when you hate nearly all of your fellow citizens.