Anonymous wrote:People that lie about fidelity lie about a lot of things. Finances, safety, diseases, travel. You can decide to stay with a cheater but if they are a liar than all bets are off what their next move is.

Yup. The depth and breadth of my ex's lies was revealed to me during our divorce process. His affair was just another thing.

I have had to come to an understanding about myself and why I chose to be with someone like this who at his core is fundamentally dishonest about pretty much everything. I didn't see what I didn't want to see, for starters, and I didn't question him when I had questions. Lying liars lie in more than one area of their lives. Even when they present as good solid citizens.

People that lie about fidelity lie about a lot of things. Finances, safety, diseases, travel. You can decide to stay with a cheater but if they are a liar than all bets are off what their next move is.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:there are already adultery laws they just need to be enforced

Waste of time and resources.

You can be a good person and a terrible spouse. Life is shades of gray.

Nah, we have credit scores because being financially irresponsible is a liability. Being sexually irresponsible should be considered the same. Being morally questionable is a liability, and a lot of people would probably argue that a terrible spouse is a terrible person. How you treat the people you claim to love says a LOT about who you choose to be and how you choose to move in the world.

In theory, I kind of agree with this; in practice it just doesn’t work. For example, I could absolutely get behind a rule that considered infidelity as a factor in the property distribution in a divorce, in theory. In practice, however, courts and judges are simply not capable of engaging in the high-resolution evaluation of a relationship, in terms of who did what to whom, to evaluate that issue in a principled way, certainly not when we’re talking about adjusting, in most cases, the distribution of a relatively small amount of assets. The cheating spouse in this scenario would raise a host of arguments about neglect, provocation, etc., no way to parse through it. Similarly, legacy statutes that criminalize e.g. adultery applied to a radically different social context, and just wouldn’t make sense today. The appropriate sanctions for cheating are reputational and social, and sadly we’re all so atomized these days, so conditioned to the idea that people should follow their bliss and that criticizing anyone’s sexual behavior is oppressive full stop, even this has broken down. I think things have moved too far in this direction for the taste of most, but no real way back. The social climate has changed too much.

Anonymous wrote:OMG it's the insane Cheater Poster again.

Get therapy. Get meds.

Just stop posting on here.

I feel bad for this OP. But I also get why their spouse cheated.

Anonymous wrote:Cheating is not the worst thing that can happen in marriage. If you want to divorce, get a divorce if you don’t wanna divorce then stay. There are worse things (and I’ve never cheated). Be more logical.

How is your expressed opinion logical in any way?

Cheating IS the worst thing in a marriage, it is also the end of the commitment when the vows are broken. It involves, lies, deception, infidelity, disrespect, abuse and more.

An open marriage is not cheating, but it is discussed prior to any 3rd party engagement and is agreed to by both parties.

Eh. My ex cheated for years. I was absolutely devastated, didn’t eat or sleep, etc.

The best thing to do is glow up. I hired a personal trainer, bought new cute clothes, glammed up my hair and makeup. Started dating a ton, right now have a rotation of 3 guys, including a younger extremely fit guy and a very wealthy finance guy. And honestly this life is a million times better than my married life.

I really don’t care at all if he’s punished or not. What he did was on him, and he’s the one who has to live with himself.

OMG it's the insane Cheater Poster again.

Get therapy. Get meds.

Just stop posting on here.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You really need to get help for this obsession. Therapy, not DCUM.

Sexual or emotional cheating is really not on the list on worst-case scenarios in this world, OP. Maybe if you had a more expansive view of love and friendship, you wouldn't be so agonized at the idea of straying from a monogamous relationship.

OMFG, no. Maybe if YOU had an ethical idea of nonmonogamous relationships, you'd realize that forcing your monogamous partner to accept your one-sided use of poly terms to justify cheating isn't "a more expansive view of love and friendship" so much as manipulative abuse.

If you want to practice ethical nonmonogamy, all parties need to be informed. That's not cheating. Cheating, by definition, involves keeping your so-called "primary partner" in the dark about your "others" and it's a screwed up way for screwed up people to live.

PP you replied. You are correct that ideally all parties should be informed. But I find that a lot of cheating comes after years of an unsatisfactory married life, where communication essentially breaks down. In these circumstances, it's hard to point to one partner and say definitively that it's their fault. I just can't be bothered to care that much about such marriages.

Of course people on DCUM people mostly want to talk about poor innocent spouses, mostly women, blindsided by their horrible spouses, mostly men, when they thought they had a lovely marriage. In the rare cases that's actually true, yes, the cheaters are nasty... for keeping up a charade of a happy marriage. Should they be punished? Eh. It's a waste of your emotions and will taint you, IMO. These people are not worth soiling your soul.

The best revenge is always to live well and be happy. This is why you need to look first to your financial well-being

Lot of words to say "I'm okay with cheating".

If things have gone on for years and you're unhappy, you don't cheat. You divorce. You don't claim "communication broke down" in a way that precluded you from saying "I'm going to sleep with other people" before you did it/them. It's not at all difficult to point to one partner and say definitively that it's their fault: if you cheated, you're the AH.

Like AHs, every cheater has their excuse(s). Still a cheater, still the AH. Very few things in life are simple, but this one really is.

I will admit that I only skimmed this, but a lot of people care more about their kids than cheating. There are many reasons people would stay married if there is cheating. For some people finances matter or more for some people their kids having one home matters more, especially if one spouse can’t be reliable and they would be granted 50-50. Their huge reasons why people stay when there’s cheating and other people choose to divorce it really is up to them and what they can tolerate because quite frankly divorce does not change the fact that the cheating happened and it often makes things worse, so you’re basically just trading one set of problems for another so a person has to choose what they’re willing to deal with.

Anonymous wrote:I have long felt this way too, OP. But as I've seen people in marriages negotiate these matters, I've begun to see that sometimes things are more gray than black and white. Lots of spouses are emotionally abusive or manipulative. They do their best to destroy their spouse's self-esteem. They pull a bait and switch once they get a ring on their finger. They use sex as a carrot to extract things that were never on the able when they decided to get married. If their spouse steps out on them after several years of a dead bedroom and negative vibes at home, does their spouse deserve punishment for cheating? Or do they deserve praise for being willing to keep tolerating/carrying their jerk spouse?

This. Not always black and white. He said she said. If you don’t wanna be married, then move on if somebody cheated on you and you wanted a divorce get a divorce. It’s not that hard.

Cheating is not the worst thing that can happen in marriage. If you want to divorce, get a divorce if you don’t wanna divorce then stay. There are worse things (and I’ve never cheated). Be more logical.

A few thoughts. One is that we do/can punish cheaters but that many times the other spouse doesn’t want to— they want to cover up the cheating, blame the AP, and carry on with the charade of a “perfect” marriage and family. You couldn’t punish me *worse* than taking away my kids half the time but many spouses decide to stay with cheaters— society gave them an alternative in divorce and they didn’t take it. Why do we need more than that?

Another thought is, many people don’t want their children to know about adultery. Once that can of worms is open it’s really hard to keep the story “good guy/bad guy”

Anonymous wrote:Not all cheaters walk away unscathed they suffer consequences. Lost jobs, finances, homes, family relationships and social status. Cheaters do pay the ultimate price and they walk through the rest of their lives knowing they made stupid selfish choices that hurt the people they love the most. So yes cheaters do pay.

This is my cheating ex - the same qualities that made him a cheater also caused him to have problems with other relationships - been fired from jobs 3-4 times, has a crappy relationship with his kids, failed at his second marriage, made poor financial choices, etc. I don’t really think he’s ever been “sorry” about any of it - he’s certainly never apologized to me or his kids - but I do think he’s felt sorry for himself that his efforts to use other people to fill his needs didn’t work out.

I don’t feel to sorry for him. Actions have consequences, and there’s an endless supply of women to hook to soothe oneself if one isn’t too picky. I do feel sorry for my kids. They deserved more from their dad.

When I first separated from their dad, I was (rightfully) angry and didn’t understand how friends and family weren’t also angry (although, I never really told anyone the truly terrible stuff that happened). But, I’m sort of glad he didn’t get a societal punishment like being dropped or shunned. Those friends and family members continued to support him professionally and to invite him socially, both of which were helpful to the kids.

Anonymous wrote:Why do they destroy lives and families and walk away unscathed? Why are we so nonchalant about these disgusting menaces to society?

Because cheating is a fact of life and if you punished them, there would be few left unpunished. The real question is why make it something bad. Having a lover is normal in many countries, and I bet they are happier for it. It's your fault for turning it into something so horrible in your mind.

It opens up too many areas where things could go bad. Do you know how easy it is these days to create fake proof? What's the process of denying it? It would cost both parties a ton of money. Not to many dangerous situations people could find themselves in trying to get proof bb

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If the money was equitable I'd agree but there are too many people who dont get half the income when this happens. I would like to see 5 years of alimony paid if anyone cheats. Something significant that would help people be more honest. My own ex cheated on me for over 15 years. I could have more easily remarried a decade ago than now.

pre-nup/post-nup

Anyone who stays with a known cheater without one is an ass, and honestly? these days, it's great to expect fidelity, but it's smart to write it into the contract.

I thought post marriage, post cheating postnups were largely unenforceable