Anonymous wrote:First time in modern history.

..

But our erstwhile Sec. pf the Treasury's comment was, "so what?'!

Anonymous wrote:
Every time they argue over raising the debt ceiling they say "we don't want to default on the debt" they never say " we don't want to cut government to pay the bondholders"

That's literally admitting that paying back bondholders is the last budget priority. This is on top of already defaulting by paying back bondholders a fraction of their initial investments using deflated dollars.

What kind of idiot would buy and hold US bonds?

You have it backwards, bondholders are first priority, that is why the government “shuts down”, they can’t continue new/current spending. Interest would paid first.

What you fail realize is that banks hold US gov bonds as their Tier 1 capital, it backstops their balance sheet against their riskier private loans. If US bonds default then the entire banking system would collapse. The US government obviously doesn’t want that, and neither do foreign countries and foreign banks, who hold the same US bonds as their Tier 1 capital.

Like it or not, the entire world is all in on US government debt.Its just a matter at what interest rate. For all the complaining, 4.5-5% is about average for the 10 yr, if you look back far enough.

Anonymous wrote:Biden added 4.7 to the debt. Trump added 8 trillion, 1 trillion more in one term than Obama in TWO terms after the great recession.

Moodys cites the last decade and the upcoming bill as the causes for its downgrade.

So really, it appears Trump is 2/3 of the problem.

Biden HAD to add that to ensure the country didn't fall into an economic depression. If Trump hadn't bungled COVID so badly, it wouldn't have been necessary. Somehow, Obama was able to avoid Ebola, despite the serious threat posed during his administration. All Trump had to do was follow the same playbook, but instead "he knew better" and left office with the country is serious decline.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Been decades in.the making. If they don't cut spending bigly, we'll be headed for a currency/credit/pension crisis where confidence will be lost and everyone will lose everything.

Think collapse of the Soviet Union in 1991.

This is all Biden/ Obama’s fault.

Fact: George W Bush and Donald Trump, through unfunded tax cuts, are directly responsible for 57% of the national debt.
Fact: When Clinton, Obama and Biden took office, the US was in recessions and they were left to fix the messes, which all three did.

This is NOT all Biden/Obama's fault, in fact nothing is further from the truth.

Both Bush's and Trump left office with the US in economic decline and Clinton, Obama and Biden left office with the country in a steady, stable growing economic condition.

The facts, in fact, matter.

Anonymous wrote:Been decades in.the making. If they don't cut spending bigly, we'll be headed for a currency/credit/pension crisis where confidence will be lost and everyone will lose everything.

Think collapse of the Soviet Union in 1991.

It isn't about cutting spending, it is about running the national debt. As it is, W and Trump are responsible for 57% of it and the GOP is talking about adding another $4-20Trillion to it. The Dems had to spend money under Obama and Biden to bailout the GOP excesses, but under neither president was the fll faith and credit of the US under question, nor did the ratings change like they are now.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Been decades in.the making. If they don't cut spending bigly, we'll be headed for a currency/credit/pension crisis where confidence will be lost and everyone will lose everything.

Think collapse of the Soviet Union in 1991.

This is all Biden/ Obama’s fault.

GOP is in charge of all three branches of government. Time for the GOP to start governing and stop pointing fingers.

If the GOP in office right now is too helpless, then they all need to resign and let others who are willing to try and improve matters instead of whining take over. I don’t care what party they call themselves.

Biden added 4.7 to the debt. Trump added 8 trillion, 1 trillion more in one term than Obama in TWO terms after the great recession.

Moodys cites the last decade and the upcoming bill as the causes for its downgrade.

So really, it appears Trump is 2/3 of the problem.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Been decades in.the making. If they don't cut spending bigly, we'll be headed for a currency/credit/pension crisis where confidence will be lost and everyone will lose everything.

Think collapse of the Soviet Union in 1991.

This is all Biden/ Obama’s fault.

+1

Anonymous wrote:Been decades in.the making. If they don't cut spending bigly, we'll be headed for a currency/credit/pension crisis where confidence will be lost and everyone will lose everything.

Think collapse of the Soviet Union in 1991.

This is all Biden/ Obama’s fault.

Here come the knock-on effects - ratings downgrades for the large US banks:
https://ratings.moodys.com/ratings-news/443211

Moody's Ratings (Moody's) has downgraded to Aa2 from Aa1 the long-term deposit ratings for the rated bank subsidiaries and branches of Bank of America Corporation (BAC), JPMorgan Chase & Co. (JPM) and Wells Fargo & Company (WFC). We also downgraded to Aa2 from Aa1 the long-term senior unsecured debt ratings and issuer ratings for certain rated subsidiaries and branches of BAC and The Bank of New York Mellon Corporation (BNY). In addition, we downgraded to Aa2 from Aa1 the long-term counterparty risk ratings (CRRs) for certain rated subsidiaries and branches of BAC, BNY, JPM, State Street Corporation (STT), and WFC; and we downgraded to Aa2(cr) from Aa1(cr) the long-term counterparty risk assessments (CRAs) for the rated subsidiaries and branches of BAC, JPM and WFC.

The rating outlooks on the Aa2 deposit ratings at the bank subsidiaries of BAC and WFC were changed to stable from negative; and the rating outlooks on the Aa2 deposit ratings at the bank subsidiaries and branches of JPM were changed to positive from negative. The rating outlooks on the Aa2 senior unsecured debt and issuer ratings at certain subsidiaries and branches of BAC and BNY were changed to stable from negative.
...
The rating actions were triggered by our downgrade of the Government of United States of America's (US Government) long-term issuer rating to Aa1 from Aaa, with a stable outlook ("Moody's Ratings downgrades United States ratings to Aa1 from Aaa; changes outlook to stable", https://ratings.moodys.com/ratings-news/443154). The downgrade of the US Government's rating indicates that its ability to support the US's global systemically important banks (G-SIBs) has weakened.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Trump's economy sucks.

Biden’s insane spending caused this downgrade.

If that were the case, they would have downgraded when Biden was in office. They downgraded now because of things happening now. This isn't a lagging indicator.

Look, it's basic economics. Bad starts with B with stands for Biden. Terrific starts with T which sands for Trump.
So Bad Bonds are Biden.

Ok.
Terrible Tariffs.
Tyrannical Taxes.
Toxic Treasury.
Treasonous Trump.

Been decades in.the making. If they don't cut spending bigly, we'll be headed for a currency/credit/pension crisis where confidence will be lost and everyone will lose everything.

Think collapse of the Soviet Union in 1991.

Anonymous wrote:First time in modern history.

First time that all the Big Three agreed on the downgrade at the same time. Moody's was the most optimistic.


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_federal_government_credit-rating_downgrades

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:First time in modern history.

Liar.

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2009/09/28/ratings-downgrade

That article is about mortgage-backed securities, not US government bonds, moron.

Anonymous wrote:
Every time they argue over raising the debt ceiling they say "we don't want to default on the debt" they never say " we don't want to cut government to pay the bondholders"

That's literally admitting that paying back bondholders is the last budget priority. This is on top of already defaulting by paying back bondholders a fraction of their initial investments using deflated dollars.

What kind of idiot would buy and hold US bonds?

China and Japan hold 15 pct of our debt. But they may not keep it if Trump and JD Vance keep calling the Chinese peasants. Not sure if Trump has gotten around to insulting the Japanese yet but I’m sure he’ll get around to it.