Anonymous wrote:Top of class, 1590 sat, 36 ACT, great EC's, national awards, 15 AP's, denied everywhere, even UChicago EDII and now at Michigan. Could have been that the letter of recommendations were not the greatest. That's the problem with holisitic admissions. Everything could be perfect but the schools are just looking for something else.

A lot of Asian kids know the feeling.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is all relative. A kid can is screwed if someone with lower stats gets accepted and you don't. But is has be significantly lower stats.

When I hear about such cases, I am always skeptical that the person who got "screwed" actually knows the other kid's stats, and it is impossible that they know all the information about the other kid that caused the admissions committee to accept that kid and reject the other kid.

You didn't get screwed just because the college didn't take all 60,000 applications, rank them in order of GPA and test scores, and then offer admission to the top 10,000 applications without looking at anything else.

Yes but if a 36/1580, valedictorian, class president and varsity capt of championship sports team with maybe something else (national award in major related activity) doesn't get in, but others with demonstrably lower stats (per teachers) are getting in, that kid was screwed.

absolutely.
and yes, its part of life and it happens. but yes, it was being screwed.

That is ridiculous. There are more kids like that than spots every year. I think there are something like 30,000 high school valedictorians alone every single year.

Disagree. Most Valedictorians don't have all the other bells & whistles. Those bells & whistles are actually more important.

Definitely, and there was nothing in that list that would be some kind of bell or whistle that would guarantee admission to a competitive college. High stats ....admirable but many applicants have them. Class presidents .....admirable but every high School class has a president. There's 30,000 of those as well. Varsity Captains... Admirable again but well over 30,000 of those. National awards admirable again but what award there are 100,000 of those also.

Don't colleges want more than one bell or whistle? So, all of them combined in this example is actually something.
Truthfully there was likely something defective in the application. Maybe the essays may not have conveyed a fit or an actual interest if shotgunning.

The quality of the bow or whistle needs to be very high level. Athletics for example at a top university. These have to be recruited athletes not just a varsity captain. There are Olympic caliber recruits at some of these top schools.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid! Waitlisted at UVA and NEU. 3.98/4.5, 1560. 9 APs/2 DE. CS major. He did NOT take AP lang/lit. I'm sure that was the killer. Really hoping that 760V and A's in honors would have helped. Oh well. Kid is happy
Direct admit to UMD with Honors placement and merit.

Sounds like this kid?

https://www.reddit.com/r/ApplyingToCollege/comments/1k968dy/got_screwednow_what/

Whew, not my kid!! HS class of 23.

OP is an idiot who probably thinks not getting into an Ivy is being screwed. Pathetic.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Immediately after Floyd’s murder many schools increased their diversity efforts. That combined with the sudden test optional/blind practices (mostly due to Covid but also partly because of diversity pushes) created some new obstacles for the unhooked but academically strong. That period contributed to the anti DEI sentiment of today.

With many things, when the pendulum swings too far one way, it often overcorrects in the other.

Admissions were particularly brutal for the HS class of ‘21, since there were fewer slots following many deferred admissions from the year before, due to Covid.

Rephrasing: after George Floyd's murder, white people suddenly realized the continuing disadvantages of racism. Some institutions made attempts to make things more fair by removing some of the advantages white students had received for generations.

The problem is there’s great variability in individual experience. Some BIPOC individuals have far more privileged upbringings than some white. Hence the backlash on emphasizing skin color as a major determinant of applicant qualification over actual academic achievement. I’m not trying to win a debate on the merits of diversity, I’m sharing an explanation of the pendulum effect taking place.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is all relative. A kid can is screwed if someone with lower stats gets accepted and you don't. But is has be significantly lower stats.

When I hear about such cases, I am always skeptical that the person who got "screwed" actually knows the other kid's stats, and it is impossible that they know all the information about the other kid that caused the admissions committee to accept that kid and reject the other kid.

You didn't get screwed just because the college didn't take all 60,000 applications, rank them in order of GPA and test scores, and then offer admission to the top 10,000 applications without looking at anything else.

Yes but if a 36/1580, valedictorian, class president and varsity capt of championship sports team with maybe something else (national award in major related activity) doesn't get in, but others with demonstrably lower stats (per teachers) are getting in, that kid was screwed.

absolutely.
and yes, its part of life and it happens. but yes, it was being screwed.

That is ridiculous. There are more kids like that than spots every year. I think there are something like 30,000 high school valedictorians alone every single year.

Disagree. Most Valedictorians don't have all the other bells & whistles. Those bells & whistles are actually more important.

Definitely, and there was nothing in that list that would be some kind of bell or whistle that would guarantee admission to a competitive college. High stats ....admirable but many applicants have them. Class presidents .....admirable but every high School class has a president. There's 30,000 of those as well. Varsity Captains... Admirable again but well over 30,000 of those. National awards admirable again but what award there are 100,000 of those also.

Don't colleges want more than one bell or whistle? So, all of them combined in this example is actually something.
Truthfully there was likely something defective in the application. Maybe the essays may not have conveyed a fit or an actual interest if shotgunning.

Anonymous wrote:My kid! Waitlisted at UVA and NEU. 3.98/4.5, 1560. 9 APs/2 DE. CS major. He did NOT take AP lang/lit. I'm sure that was the killer. Really hoping that 760V and A's in honors would have helped. Oh well. Kid is happy
Direct admit to UMD with Honors placement and merit.

No, he did not get screwed. His stats just weren't quite good enough. I'm sure he's a great kid, PP! But that's the lay of the land these days. We're in MCPS and while my son got into UMD Honors with merit, some of his classmates with similar stats to your kid's were shut out of their own flagship. It's tough.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is all relative. A kid can is screwed if someone with lower stats gets accepted and you don't. But is has be significantly lower stats.

When I hear about such cases, I am always skeptical that the person who got "screwed" actually knows the other kid's stats, and it is impossible that they know all the information about the other kid that caused the admissions committee to accept that kid and reject the other kid.

You didn't get screwed just because the college didn't take all 60,000 applications, rank them in order of GPA and test scores, and then offer admission to the top 10,000 applications without looking at anything else.

Yes but if a 36/1580, valedictorian, class president and varsity capt of championship sports team with maybe something else (national award in major related activity) doesn't get in, but others with demonstrably lower stats (per teachers) are getting in, that kid was screwed.

absolutely.
and yes, its part of life and it happens. but yes, it was being screwed.

Maybe. Or it may reflect the fact that the values of a particular school go beyond those basics. An enthusiastic, curious student with interesting and passionate ideas — and good enough test scores to support success — might easily be admitted over yet another valedictorian dot dot dot who checked lots of boxes. That those qualities aren’t your priorities doesn’t change that. Building a class, particularly for smaller schools that value collegiality— isn’t as formulaic as some seem to think, and might perhaps prefer.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ending up at a state flagship is far from being screwed.

Being a kid growing up in Ukraine is getting screwed.

Get some perspective.

Ah, the fallacy of relative privation.

Perhaps, but the "screwed" somehow depicts a harm. Maybe "disappointed" would have been more appropriate?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is all relative. A kid can is screwed if someone with lower stats gets accepted and you don't. But is has be significantly lower stats.

When I hear about such cases, I am always skeptical that the person who got "screwed" actually knows the other kid's stats, and it is impossible that they know all the information about the other kid that caused the admissions committee to accept that kid and reject the other kid.

You didn't get screwed just because the college didn't take all 60,000 applications, rank them in order of GPA and test scores, and then offer admission to the top 10,000 applications without looking at anything else.

Yes but if a 36/1580, valedictorian, class president and varsity capt of championship sports team with maybe something else (national award in major related activity) doesn't get in, but others with demonstrably lower stats (per teachers) are getting in, that kid was screwed.

absolutely.
and yes, its part of life and it happens. but yes, it was being screwed.

That is ridiculous. There are more kids like that than spots every year. I think there are something like 30,000 high school valedictorians alone every single year.

Disagree. Most Valedictorians don't have all the other bells & whistles. Those bells & whistles are actually more important.

Definitely, and there was nothing in that list that would be some kind of bell or whistle that would guarantee admission to a competitive college. High stats ....admirable but many applicants have them. Class presidents .....admirable but every high School class has a president. There's 30,000 of those as well. Varsity Captains... Admirable again but well over 30,000 of those. National awards admirable again but what award there are 100,000 of those also.

Anonymous wrote:I had a friend who was screwed (likely because she is Asian). She ended at becoming a doctor and is now CMO at a health care company. Super successful - no long term damage!

Asian kids are not screwed by universities. As it is, they're wildly overrepresented. So just stop with that ridiculous nonsense.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Immediately after Floyd’s murder many schools increased their diversity efforts. That combined with the sudden test optional/blind practices (mostly due to Covid but also partly because of diversity pushes) created some new obstacles for the unhooked but academically strong. That period contributed to the anti DEI sentiment of today.

With many things, when the pendulum swings too far one way, it often overcorrects in the other.

Admissions were particularly brutal for the HS class of ‘21, since there were fewer slots following many deferred admissions from the year before, due to Covid.

I’ve been hearing this claim.. but would love to see actual data back it up.

My guess is that test optional impacted admissions which led to a surge in apps to top schools. Admissions offices were overwhelmed. More schools are weighing test scores heavily now, even if still test optional.

I’m not sure what part exactly you seek more evidence for.

Schools were very open about wanting to boost diversity after Floyd, and did so. Between 2020 and 2024 nationwide the Black student population rose from 13 to 15% and the Hispanic from 20 to 23%.

https://www.diverseeducation.com/social-justice/article/15678570/campus-racial-issues-four-years-after-george-floyds-death#:~:text=These%20promises%20varied%20in%20scope,issues%20of%20race%20and%20equity.

The University of California dropped its testing requirement following a 2019 lawsuit alleging standardized tests are racist. It is still test blind.

Some schools are bringing back their testing requirements because they saw a drop in student quality, but overall there is still less emphasis on test scores than, say, a decade ago. At TO schools, students with great scores will submit, but large percentages, sometimes even more than 50%, still hold off.

Anonymous wrote:Ending up at a state flagship is far from being screwed.

Being a kid growing up in Ukraine is getting screwed.

Get some perspective.

Ah, the fallacy of relative privation.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't think any kids get "screwed" in the college application process. What a peculiar way of looking at things.

If you are the #1 kid in your school, aiming for T10/T20, and you end up at the flagship or worse (and not for financial reasons), then yeah, I think you were screwed since kids ranked FAR below you got into the schools you were aiming for?
Maybe it was your application? Your major? Your story?

What a strange sense of entitlement. If that came across in the application process, it might explain the rejection. The bottom line is this mythological "screwed" student is the common denominator here -- there's obviously something defective about them. They don't deserve a T10/T20 because of their stats -- and it's a fallacy to suspect that kids "ranked FAR below you got into schools you were aiming for." It's clear they had something you did not. Deal with it. You (or your kid) isn't nearly as special as you thought and isn't owed anything at all.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is all relative. A kid can is screwed if someone with lower stats gets accepted and you don't. But is has be significantly lower stats.

When I hear about such cases, I am always skeptical that the person who got "screwed" actually knows the other kid's stats, and it is impossible that they know all the information about the other kid that caused the admissions committee to accept that kid and reject the other kid.

You didn't get screwed just because the college didn't take all 60,000 applications, rank them in order of GPA and test scores, and then offer admission to the top 10,000 applications without looking at anything else.

Yes but if a 36/1580, valedictorian, class president and varsity capt of championship sports team with maybe something else (national award in major related activity) doesn't get in, but others with demonstrably lower stats (per teachers) are getting in, that kid was screwed.

absolutely.
and yes, its part of life and it happens. but yes, it was being screwed.

That is ridiculous. There are more kids like that than spots every year. I think there are something like 30,000 high school valedictorians alone every single year.

Disagree. Most Valedictorians don't have all the other bells & whistles. Those bells & whistles are actually more important.