Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This year I’m on the hiring team as the senior/director person in our org’s entry level (consulting, political, policy type shop)…

and one thing I’ve noticed is the boys we are receiving from t20s are not good (on paper or even the few we’ve given interviews to just to get some boys in the hiring pipeline.) the boy interviews have been disasters so far

Granted we don’t get the top boys who go to more prestigious firms, or the stem boys, but the median liberal arts
/social science boys we see in our applicant pool vs the girls is night and day.

The girls even make pro-sports small talk with me better than the boys!

Btw these are all private college t20:t30 class of 2024 or 2025 grads

Why aren’t you hiring from U of M, UCLA, UVA, or Berkeley? Must be a lot of donor spawn

My large consulting firm really cut back on hiring at those schools after several less-than-stellar recruits. We generally find the private school grads to be better prepared to both do the work and succeed socially. We do like both UCs for grad school hires.

The publics have much lower test scores. It'll catch up to them eventually.

UC is test blind

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This year I’m on the hiring team as the senior/director person in our org’s entry level (consulting, political, policy type shop)…

and one thing I’ve noticed is the boys we are receiving from t20s are not good (on paper or even the few we’ve given interviews to just to get some boys in the hiring pipeline.) the boy interviews have been disasters so far

Granted we don’t get the top boys who go to more prestigious firms, or the stem boys, but the median liberal arts
/social science boys we see in our applicant pool vs the girls is night and day.

The girls even make pro-sports small talk with me better than the boys!

Btw these are all private college t20:t30 class of 2024 or 2025 grads

Why aren’t you hiring from U of M, UCLA, UVA, or Berkeley? Must be a lot of donor spawn

My large consulting firm really cut back on hiring at those schools after several less-than-stellar recruits. We generally find the private school grads to be better prepared to both do the work and succeed socially. We do like both UCs for grad school hires.

The undergrad interns out of the UCs last year were not great.

Anonymous wrote:This is probably a different post but I was thinking recently the college applications really don’t reflect a lot of important social skills, and that may show up more with the boys.

This is off point but as an example, my son has had a girlfriend for over a year. It obviously takes some time that he could otherwise be filling with extracurrriculars for his college applications. But, he’s developing real skills in treating women with respect and kindness, considering the needs of others, etc. He interacts well with her parents and has developed something of a bond with her dad, who is from a different culture. These all seem like solid life skills to me that will probably make him a better college citizen and employee some day. But the colleges are filtering for people who don’t have these life experiences, because they have up this social time to instead start a pointless non profit or win some prize at a competition for something you’ll never use. I’m not really throwing shade at those kids — that was my older kid and that’s a fine way to be. But the colleges are definitely not capturing the real breadth of skills we might want out future citizens to have.

But why is that affecting boys but not girls?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This year I’m on the hiring team as the senior/director person in our org’s entry level (consulting, political, policy type shop)…

and one thing I’ve noticed is the boys we are receiving from t20s are not good (on paper or even the few we’ve given interviews to just to get some boys in the hiring pipeline.) the boy interviews have been disasters so far

Granted we don’t get the top boys who go to more prestigious firms, or the stem boys, but the median liberal arts
/social science boys we see in our applicant pool vs the girls is night and day.

The girls even make pro-sports small talk with me better than the boys!

Btw these are all private college t20:t30 class of 2024 or 2025 grads

What is a "median guy" or "median boy"? English is my 2nd language and I don't understand this term. Can you clarify? Is it a sports thing or academic term?

It’s just thinking statistically about the bell curve of boys, ignoring the outliers on either ends of the curve and concentrating on the vast majority who are in the middle.

OP isn’t really using the term correctly. What they mean is that most of the boys they select to interview aren’t turning out well…not that if they interview 11 kids that interviews 1-5 go well, but things go downhill with the 6th best candidate.

The boy applicants on paper are markedly worse and aren’t even getting to the interview stage for the most part

To be fair our worst interviewee was a girl who should’ve really done better - top mpp, t20 ug, solid internships

Why are the boys worse on paper?

lower gpa's, way worse internships from soph/junior year and not as strong extra-curriculars. The girls also wrote much stronger cover letters -- like not even close - an absolutely massive gap. So much so, I wouldn't even care if the boys in the pool used AI to help them close the gap.

I'm personally ok with lower gpa's because for those kids I'll ask for test scores but others on the hiring panel are not so chill about lower gpa's.

We had d1 t20 athlete girls in the applicant pool this year and d3 nescac girls -- mind you I know that d1 t20 / d3 nescac boys go to finance so I wasn't expecting any athletes to apply to be honest. but still - a pretty stark contrast.

the girls had better-structured resumes (boys would either word vomit or have terribly designed resumes with barely any information -- I know there is no way a top school career services staff would ok some of these designs/resume structures if the boys actually walked in and asked for help.

it is interesting to see career-oriented schools vs non-career oriented schools in this regard.

Georgetown -- great resumes. clearly career services there gets their kids 'application/interview ready' even if they don't get the job or go onto subsequent rounds.

yale - there is no school where we received so many resumes formatted with such variety. i know it's yale so they think they can get away with it but still...come on. it didn't hurt the applicants that much but we were just quite surprised.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This year I’m on the hiring team as the senior/director person in our org’s entry level (consulting, political, policy type shop)…

and one thing I’ve noticed is the boys we are receiving from t20s are not good (on paper or even the few we’ve given interviews to just to get some boys in the hiring pipeline.) the boy interviews have been disasters so far

Granted we don’t get the top boys who go to more prestigious firms, or the stem boys, but the median liberal arts
/social science boys we see in our applicant pool vs the girls is night and day.

The girls even make pro-sports small talk with me better than the boys!

Btw these are all private college t20:t30 class of 2024 or 2025 grads

What is a "median guy" or "median boy"? English is my 2nd language and I don't understand this term. Can you clarify? Is it a sports thing or academic term?

It’s just thinking statistically about the bell curve of boys, ignoring the outliers on either ends of the curve and concentrating on the vast majority who are in the middle.

OP isn’t really using the term correctly. What they mean is that most of the boys they select to interview aren’t turning out well…not that if they interview 11 kids that interviews 1-5 go well, but things go downhill with the 6th best candidate.

The boy applicants on paper are markedly worse and aren’t even getting to the interview stage for the most part

To be fair our worst interviewee was a girl who should’ve really done better - top mpp, t20 ug, solid internships

Why are the boys worse on paper?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This year I’m on the hiring team as the senior/director person in our org’s entry level (consulting, political, policy type shop)…

and one thing I’ve noticed is the boys we are receiving from t20s are not good (on paper or even the few we’ve given interviews to just to get some boys in the hiring pipeline.) the boy interviews have been disasters so far

Granted we don’t get the top boys who go to more prestigious firms, or the stem boys, but the median liberal arts
/social science boys we see in our applicant pool vs the girls is night and day.

The girls even make pro-sports small talk with me better than the boys!

Btw these are all private college t20:t30 class of 2024 or 2025 grads

What is a "median guy" or "median boy"? English is my 2nd language and I don't understand this term. Can you clarify? Is it a sports thing or academic term?

It’s just thinking statistically about the bell curve of boys, ignoring the outliers on either ends of the curve and concentrating on the vast majority who are in the middle.

OP isn’t really using the term correctly. What they mean is that most of the boys they select to interview aren’t turning out well…not that if they interview 11 kids that interviews 1-5 go well, but things go downhill with the 6th best candidate.

The boy applicants on paper are markedly worse and aren’t even getting to the interview stage for the most part

To be fair our worst interviewee was a girl who should’ve really done better - top mpp, t20 ug, solid internships

Anonymous wrote:This is a really interesting post. I have a boy at an ivy and his male friends are all pretty engaging and social. That was true K-12 as well. He's going to need a job soon! Wish I knew where to send him to impress you

He’s probably a top tier boy so we won’t be competitive for him.

This is a really interesting post. I have a boy at an ivy and his male friends are all pretty engaging and social. That was true K-12 as well. He's going to need a job soon! Wish I knew where to send him to impress you

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This year I’m on the hiring team as the senior/director person in our org’s entry level (consulting, political, policy type shop)…

and one thing I’ve noticed is the boys we are receiving from t20s are not good (on paper or even the few we’ve given interviews to just to get some boys in the hiring pipeline.) the boy interviews have been disasters so far

Granted we don’t get the top boys who go to more prestigious firms, or the stem boys, but the median liberal arts
/social science boys we see in our applicant pool vs the girls is night and day.

The girls even make pro-sports small talk with me better than the boys!

Btw these are all private college t20:t30 class of 2024 or 2025 grads

What is a "median guy" or "median boy"? English is my 2nd language and I don't understand this term. Can you clarify? Is it a sports thing or academic term?

It’s just thinking statistically about the bell curve of boys, ignoring the outliers on either ends of the curve and concentrating on the vast majority who are in the middle.

OP isn’t really using the term correctly. What they mean is that most of the boys they select to interview aren’t turning out well…not that if they interview 11 kids that interviews 1-5 go well, but things go downhill with the 6th best candidate.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This year I’m on the hiring team as the senior/director person in our org’s entry level (consulting, political, policy type shop)…

and one thing I’ve noticed is the boys we are receiving from t20s are not good (on paper or even the few we’ve given interviews to just to get some boys in the hiring pipeline.) the boy interviews have been disasters so far

Granted we don’t get the top boys who go to more prestigious firms, or the stem boys, but the median liberal arts
/social science boys we see in our applicant pool vs the girls is night and day.

The girls even make pro-sports small talk with me better than the boys!

Btw these are all private college t20:t30 class of 2024 or 2025 grads

What is a "median guy" or "median boy"? English is my 2nd language and I don't understand this term. Can you clarify? Is it a sports thing or academic term?

It’s just thinking statistically about the bell curve of boys, ignoring the outliers on either ends of the curve and concentrating on the vast majority who are in the middle.

Anonymous wrote:This year I’m on the hiring team as the senior/director person in our org’s entry level (consulting, political, policy type shop)…

and one thing I’ve noticed is the boys we are receiving from t20s are not good (on paper or even the few we’ve given interviews to just to get some boys in the hiring pipeline.) the boy interviews have been disasters so far

Granted we don’t get the top boys who go to more prestigious firms, or the stem boys, but the median liberal arts
/social science boys we see in our applicant pool vs the girls is night and day.

The girls even make pro-sports small talk with me better than the boys!

Btw these are all private college t20:t30 class of 2024 or 2025 grads

What is a "median guy" or "median boy"? English is my 2nd language and I don't understand this term. Can you clarify? Is it a sports thing or academic term?

Anonymous wrote:Why are the top boys all going to STEM/Econ? We need good male history majors too.

Men are conditioned to focus on earning a good income and are more aware of the "follow year dreams" myth being a myth.

Anonymous wrote:This is probably a different post but I was thinking recently the college applications really don’t reflect a lot of important social skills, and that may show up more with the boys.

This is off point but as an example, my son has had a girlfriend for over a year. It obviously takes some time that he could otherwise be filling with extracurrriculars for his college applications. But, he’s developing real skills in treating women with respect and kindness, considering the needs of others, etc. He interacts well with her parents and has developed something of a bond with her dad, who is from a different culture. These all seem like solid life skills to me that will probably make him a better college citizen and employee some day. But the colleges are filtering for people who don’t have these life experiences, because they have up this social time to instead start a pointless non profit or win some prize at a competition for something you’ll never use. I’m not really throwing shade at those kids — that was my older kid and that’s a fine way to be. But the colleges are definitely not capturing the real breadth of skills we might want out future citizens to have.

I understand what you're saying but I don't think either need to be mutually exclusive. I know of lots of kids going to T20s who play a sport, have a boyfriend or girlfriend, are "cool," and earned their spot academically.

Anonymous wrote:This year I’m on the hiring team as the senior/director person in our org’s entry level (consulting, political, policy type shop)…

and one thing I’ve noticed is the boys we are receiving from t20s are not good (on paper or even the few we’ve given interviews to just to get some boys in the hiring pipeline.) the boy interviews have been disasters so far

Granted we don’t get the top boys who go to more prestigious firms, or the stem boys, but the median liberal arts
/social science boys we see in our applicant pool vs the girls is night and day.

The girls even make pro-sports small talk with me better than the boys!

Btw these are all private college t20:t30 class of 2024 or 2025 grads

Sounds like your firm creates baloney reports with taxpayer money.

Anonymous wrote:This year I’m on the hiring team as the senior/director person in our org’s entry level (consulting, political, policy type shop)…

and one thing I’ve noticed is the boys we are receiving from t20s are not good (on paper or even the few we’ve given interviews to just to get some boys in the hiring pipeline.) the boy interviews have been disasters so far

Granted we don’t get the top boys who go to more prestigious firms, or the stem boys, but the median liberal arts
/social science boys we see in our applicant pool vs the girls is night and day.

The girls even make pro-sports small talk with me better than the boys!

Btw these are all private college t20:t30 class of 2024 or 2025 grads

Sounds like you have a bias.