Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In my sophomore year, I withdrew from orgo 2 weeks in and made arrangements to take it at summer school. I couldn’t manage the bandwidth it took to think through the reactions plus 4 other courses. Once I was in the summer class and thinking about nothing but orgo (and my mindless 2nd shift job), it finally made sense and came together.

Finding a summer orgo class that you can transfer may be the answer. I was not pre-med but my class was 98% pre-meds who knew the secret.

Another option, is to find a OC class at a community college that the university will accept. My brother did that years ago and it was the only way he would have made it through pharmacy school.
I have a PhD in Chem and hated Organic.

I’m the PP you’re replying to and I was at an Ivy. We were allowed to transfer in 2 outside classes so I went home to a local small, private university with a strong nursing program to take orgo. I chose it based on affordable cost and reputation of the course and professor. Kids from my HS passed down the info about the class.

Start asking around- kids who are seniors in college or in med school who went to your kid’s high school will have local recommendations.

The professors also all hate organic so you often don’t get the best instruction.
My kid is at a top 10 school and getting bs and cs in orgo — her chem advisor says she’s doing fine with those grades. Her other classes are all super easy for her—this is the only slog. But it really depends a lot on the school — it’s hard everywhere but in some schools, it’s really hard and C is considered a pretty good grade. Some other top schools grade inflate a little more and do like a B curve instead of a C curve.

Anonymous wrote:In my sophomore year, I withdrew from orgo 2 weeks in and made arrangements to take it at summer school. I couldn’t manage the bandwidth it took to think through the reactions plus 4 other courses. Once I was in the summer class and thinking about nothing but orgo (and my mindless 2nd shift job), it finally made sense and came together.

Finding a summer orgo class that you can transfer may be the answer. I was not pre-med but my class was 98% pre-meds who knew the secret.

Another option, is to find a OC class at a community college that the university will accept. My brother did that years ago and it was the only way he would have made it through pharmacy school.
I have a PhD in Chem and hated Organic.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Orgo was my only C in college - it's (one reason) why I am not a veterinarian today. I found it incredibly hard.

PP was saying it's because other science classes you could memorize, but not this one - for me it was the opposite. The other chem classes I'd taken till then, I could reason my way through. This one felt like I just had to memorize memorize memorize and also it just made no sense to me.

Anyway - going through that was no fun. My sympathies to your niece.

You were memorizing because it didn't make sense to you. If you understand the content, there is far less to memorize. It's mostly concepts that you apply.

I'm sure that's true. I had zero understanding the whole semester. I felt really dumb. Had a chem major boyfriend at the time who tried to make it make sense for me; poor guy.

Anonymous wrote:In my sophomore year, I withdrew from orgo 2 weeks in and made arrangements to take it at summer school. I couldn’t manage the bandwidth it took to think through the reactions plus 4 other courses. Once I was in the summer class and thinking about nothing but orgo (and my mindless 2nd shift job), it finally made sense and came together.

Finding a summer orgo class that you can transfer may be the answer. I was not pre-med but my class was 98% pre-meds who knew the secret.

We were just given this advice at a campus event. My friend, who ended up being a chem major, also did this.

Anonymous wrote:Why do they need to weed out pre-med? We need more doctors!

But only students who can successfully complete the difficult courses. O chem isn't the issue--it's the lack of med school space and residency spots

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Orgo was my only C in college - it's (one reason) why I am not a veterinarian today. I found it incredibly hard.

PP was saying it's because other science classes you could memorize, but not this one - for me it was the opposite. The other chem classes I'd taken till then, I could reason my way through. This one felt like I just had to memorize memorize memorize and also it just made no sense to me.

Anyway - going through that was no fun. My sympathies to your niece.

You were memorizing because it didn't make sense to you. If you understand the content, there is far less to memorize. It's mostly concepts that you apply.

+100

Anonymous wrote:Orgo was my only C in college - it's (one reason) why I am not a veterinarian today. I found it incredibly hard.

PP was saying it's because other science classes you could memorize, but not this one - for me it was the opposite. The other chem classes I'd taken till then, I could reason my way through. This one felt like I just had to memorize memorize memorize and also it just made no sense to me.

Anyway - going through that was no fun. My sympathies to your niece.

You were memorizing because it didn't make sense to you. If you understand the content, there is far less to memorize. It's mostly concepts that you apply.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Biology majors and pre-meds seem to really struggle with these classes because they're so used to being able to just memorize for the test. ...snip...you have to treat it like math and solve the problems. I know the reactions have names, but that's not the same as anatomy where you can just flashcard your way through the course. You have to think and understand. That's why med schools use it as a weed out class--you don't want doctors who can't think and solve problems.

Teaching a more required skill of how to think rather than what to think.

and to take this back a level, this is why your kid needed to learn algebra in high school and calculus in college even though you may never use them. Your brain is learning patterns of advanced thinking.

is calc required for all premeds?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why do they need to weed out pre-med? We need more doctors!

Having weed-out classes save lives, because they keep stupid ones out.

Not true. It keeps out good doctors and promotes useless textbook memorizers.

Organic chemistry couldn’t be further rote memorization you rube

I was a chem major and hated Orgo, particularly the first semester rote memorization. I did much much better with reaction mechanisms and was way better in the Physical Chem and Inorganic advanced classes (my concentration was Analytical Chem).

I don't know that anyone likes that semester. It sucks. Make flashcards and hope beyond hope your professor isn't a sadist who won't make the weird exceptions the majority of the test. Unfortunately most orgo professors delight in crazy exams.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why do they need to weed out pre-med? We need more doctors!

Having weed-out classes save lives, because they keep stupid ones out.

Not true. It keeps out good doctors and promotes useless textbook memorizers.

I agree. O-Chem was my worst class, but that's because of my learning style. Kids who are good at memorization find it much easier. I'm hopeful for my kid who willbe taking it in a few years b/c they actually really like chem classes. I scraped my way though b/c bio required it.

Orgo was my only C in college - it's (one reason) why I am not a veterinarian today. I found it incredibly hard.

PP was saying it's because other science classes you could memorize, but not this one - for me it was the opposite. The other chem classes I'd taken till then, I could reason my way through. This one felt like I just had to memorize memorize memorize and also it just made no sense to me.

Anyway - going through that was no fun. My sympathies to your niece.

In my sophomore year, I withdrew from orgo 2 weeks in and made arrangements to take it at summer school. I couldn’t manage the bandwidth it took to think through the reactions plus 4 other courses. Once I was in the summer class and thinking about nothing but orgo (and my mindless 2nd shift job), it finally made sense and came together.

Finding a summer orgo class that you can transfer may be the answer. I was not pre-med but my class was 98% pre-meds who knew the secret.

Anonymous wrote:

Biology majors and pre-meds seem to really struggle with these classes because they're so used to being able to just memorize for the test. ...snip...you have to treat it like math and solve the problems. I know the reactions have names, but that's not the same as anatomy where you can just flashcard your way through the course. You have to think and understand. That's why med schools use it as a weed out class--you don't want doctors who can't think and solve problems.

Teaching a more required skill of how to think rather than what to think.

and to take this back a level, this is why your kid needed to learn algebra in high school and calculus in college even though you may never use them. Your brain is learning patterns of advanced thinking.