Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is UVA worth the high cost of attendance for out of staters? Other state schools are so much more reasonable - I understand the prestige of UVA but is it worth that much more? DS wants to go south to an academically rigorous school but one that has good sports and a lot of school spirit.

What field of interest? I'm sure you can take rigorous courses at any school.

Yes, you can take rigorous courses at most schools. But for some academically driven (or gifted) students, it’s also a question of classmates and peer group.

DS has been happiest with his six AP courses (with five more scheduled for senior year), in part because his AP classmates are (mostly) very motivated, well-prepared, and engaged in class discussion. Do things move quickly and they can dig in and a deeper level.

Sadly, this has not been his experience with his non-AP classes. He’s been frustrated because too many kids just phone it in, and the classes move slowly and are more superficial as a result.

We truly don’t know how this translates to college. DS knows he doesn’t want to be with gunner peers who are completely obsessed with grades and building a resume etc. He’s more of a work hard / play hard kid - a very social, academically motivated three sport athlete. So he wants to be with peers who are similar (not necessarily athletes, but academically motivated kids with big interests and lives beyond the classroom.)

UVA seems to fit the bill. Michigan, too. But like OP, we’re wondering whether they’re worth the high OOS cost. (Not sure about OP, but we’re also looking at private colleges that fit this profile, and we’d welcome all suggestions.)

UVA and Michigan fit the bill and are worth it OOS if the student does not have any T25 privates or Top10 LACs that would give the same academically rigorous courses and peer groups. UVA and Michigan are not going to have the same academically intense peers as ivies/Stanford/JHU type schools (I have one at UVA and two at/finished with ivies--it is quite a contrast). The ivy subset can be overly competitive for many gifted kids, as gifted in general means 95th%ile, which would be below average at the most challenging schools but above average at UVA/Michigan level of school. Wanting top rigor is great as long as one knows what he or she is getting into

Yes it is worth the cost and if kid gets Echols it’s a no brainer.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No public school is worth paying out-of-state tuition.

it depends which state you are from...

No it doesn’t.

OP, what is the next option? I'm assuming there is lots of merit for you kids once you drop out of the top 40.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are considering OOS UVA, and the tuition, although high for a state school, compares favorably to the private university options we have. Pros and cons to every school, and looking for DC's best fit.

But why go UvA when can go to Ivy and now odds close for admits?

Because you don't get into the Ivy?

Indeed, if DD had been admitted to an Ivy, that would have beat UVA. Do people not know how difficult Ivy admits are?

Holy crap, UVA is $80,000 out of state?!!

I would never consider paying that unless:

1) Top 3 school for major;

2) Brings high likelihood of admission to a top law school, or into any medical school, which you can afford without loans; or

3) You have no budget and don't care what it costs.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No public school is worth paying out-of-state tuition.

I think W&M may be unique in this regard, for the right kid.

Agreed. I would gladly pay OOS for W&M over any private university and many publics. Instate publics are not comparable for many students.

+1. You’d have to make the assessment for yourself. But for us it was WM vs a private SLAC, not WM vs an a different public flagship. The financial calculus is different. $60k for WM is a lot. $90k for a SLAC is more. And of full pay you can get merit some places. But not too much for than $30k at most decent SLACs. So, it made financial sense.

Anonymous wrote:Is UVA worth the high cost of attendance for out of staters? Other state schools are so much more reasonable - I understand the prestige of UVA but is it worth that much more? DS wants to go south to an academically rigorous school but one that has good sports and a lot of school spirit.

As a UVA grad I don’t think so. It’s ridiculously expensive OOS, and kids that can get in generally have other excellent options that are almost certainly cheaper.

Correct me if I’m wrong but I think Wake is about $90K/year and UVA OOS is almost $80K/year. If your child is heaving into rah rah I would think UVA may be the better fit but academically Wake would be better. There’s also the difference of being in a town etc.

Anonymous wrote:For southern and academically rigorous the only publics are UNC, UVA, William and Mary and Georgia Tech for engineering, it is not on par with UVA for other subjects. UNC is slightly weaker academically to UVA. Privates are Vanderbilt Duke Rice Emory Wake. They have varying degrees of sports culture, and Duke and Rice do not feel southern at all as the majority of students are not from the south. Vanderbilt is edging that way too, all three very popular with northeast and CA kids, as well as 10-15 % international.

My understanding is that Wake is only 18-20% from NC now. But not sure what % are from other southern states vs. rest of the country. Does anyone know?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:UVA is worth if you’re going pre professional route. Banking, law consulting. Due to top recruitment

Curious to hear what law firms are recruiting UVA undergrads.

Law firms do not recruit undergrads. There’s a intermediate step called law school 🙄

And some undergrad schools are better feeders to T-20 law schools than others.

For example, some schools’ pre-law advisors have better relationships than others with top law schools’ admissions officers, which helps with law school acceptances. Also, the data shows that some undergrad schools have a better track record of their grads succeeding once they’re at T-20 law schools (even those grads with slightly lower GPAs), so again, that could create a slight advantage with law school admissions.

Finally, to get back to your point about law firm recruiting, it’s the T-20 law schools from which top law firms recruit most heavily. And they do so very early in the law school process (first year), which means the undergrad name/status/experience counts a bit more than it used to.

As for UVA, my understanding is that it’s an excellent pre-law feeder with strong nand recognition/respect and a large and strong alumni base in the law firm world - especially in major markets up and down the east coast and into the south.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are considering OOS UVA, and the tuition, although high for a state school, compares favorably to the private university options we have. Pros and cons to every school, and looking for DC's best fit.

But why go UvA when can go to Ivy and now odds close for admits?

Because you don't get into the Ivy?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is UVA worth the high cost of attendance for out of staters? Other state schools are so much more reasonable - I understand the prestige of UVA but is it worth that much more? DS wants to go south to an academically rigorous school but one that has good sports and a lot of school spirit.

What field of interest? I'm sure you can take rigorous courses at any school.

Yes, you can take rigorous courses at most schools. But for some academically driven (or gifted) students, it’s also a question of classmates and peer group.

DS has been happiest with his six AP courses (with five more scheduled for senior year), in part because his AP classmates are (mostly) very motivated, well-prepared, and engaged in class discussion. Do things move quickly and they can dig in and a deeper level.

Sadly, this has not been his experience with his non-AP classes. He’s been frustrated because too many kids just phone it in, and the classes move slowly and are more superficial as a result.

We truly don’t know how this translates to college. DS knows he doesn’t want to be with gunner peers who are completely obsessed with grades and building a resume etc. He’s more of a work hard / play hard kid - a very social, academically motivated three sport athlete. So he wants to be with peers who are similar (not necessarily athletes, but academically motivated kids with big interests and lives beyond the classroom.)

UVA seems to fit the bill. Michigan, too. But like OP, we’re wondering whether they’re worth the high OOS cost. (Not sure about OP, but we’re also looking at private colleges that fit this profile, and we’d welcome all suggestions.)

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is UVA worth the high cost of attendance for out of staters? Other state schools are so much more reasonable - I understand the prestige of UVA but is it worth that much more? DS wants to go south to an academically rigorous school but one that has good sports and a lot of school spirit.

Have you heard of North Carolina?

Not OP, but we have similar questions.

Apparently, UNC-CH is even harder to get into OOS than UVA. And it’s much less geographically diverse. I think only 20-25% of students are from outside NC.

That last part seems completely appropriate to me for a state school. It’s supported by state funds and is designed primarily to create opportunities for NC students. All good. Just now what our DC is looking for.

Anonymous wrote:We are considering OOS UVA, and the tuition, although high for a state school, compares favorably to the private university options we have. Pros and cons to every school, and looking for DC's best fit.

But why go UvA when can go to Ivy and now odds close for admits?