Anonymous wrote:Literally just advanced math and more Indian and Asian students. Literally that's it. I personally don't love the peer group, those parents are nuts and they don't want to socialize outside of their little groups.

AAP classes are definitely more Asian. At our center, you can tell which classes are AAP by the racial makeup. The AAP classes are over 50% Asian.

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Anonymous wrote:I do a lot of in-school volunteer work. AAP gets the better teachers and for the most part the kids are better behaved. The parents of kids on the cusp lobby really hard to get their kids into AAP, because the non-AAP classes are really slow. Lots of non-English speakers, lots of remediation, lots of behavioral/emotional challenges, lots of kids who are way too mature for their age (not in a good way).

The AAP classes have enrichment because they have parents at home supporting that enrichment: securing supplies, reminding kids of deadlines, helping out with the projects. Usually the AAP kids are the ones in the after-school chess lessons, or Lego robotics, or Odyssey of the Mind. The AAP classes win the read-a-thon and thus get the pizza or ice cream parties. The AAP parents buy the “pizza with the principal” at the PTA auction.

What is the cusp? There seems to be a ton of overlap between the two groups. Some of the top of Gen Ed kids would probably fall right in the middle of aap....
Signed mom of a Gen ed kid with 99%ile on iready with no supplementation or enrichment. Imagine what this kid could do with enrichment, but that would just make the 8 hours spent at school even more boring...

Not sure iready is the best indicator for advanced learner.

That didn't answer the question. Probably made you feel really good about yourself.
What is the cusp? It is known that there is a lot of overlap between the kids at the top of Gen Ed and the kids in aap.

Not the PP you quoted who said stuff about the cusp. The bolded is true. If you really want to know you can look at the hard numbers in the 2020 outside committee report and see exactly what the cusp is. In terms of CogAT/NNAT there's a huge range around 100-135 on both where a kid could either be in or out (mostly out on the lower end and mostly in on the higher end), plus that tail at high SES schools of kids with great scores who don't get in.

And it's probably 100% school dependent whether those "kids on the cusp" actually fight to get in. I worked hard to get my kids admitted, but I know lots of people at our mid SES base/center who really didn't care either way. They put together a parent referral and once they got rejected happily moved on to gen ed.

I suspect that we can toss that report out at this point in time. It has been used to guide many of the changes that have occured int h last 5 years. There has been a push to make sure that most every school has LLIV, I think we are down to around 15 ES without LLIV at this point. The GBRSs has been replaced with a different method of teacher evaluation. There are now local norms. All seem to be direct responses to the 2020 report. There is no way that the thresholds listed in that report are anywhere near accurate at this time. I would guess that there are schools were the local norms has CoGAT/NNAT scores in the 115 range while other schools are in the 140's.

What matters most is what the scores are at your school and the county is not releasing that information, which I think is bogus. I think the in-pool thresholds should be public knowledge. I don't have a problem with the thresholds being different because different schools are meeting the needs of very different populations. The kids needing AAP at a Title 1 school look very different then the kids at a high SES school. That kid with a 120 at a Title 1 school is ahead in reading and math, even if it is only a bit ahead, is probably 1-3 grade levels ahead of most of their peers at that school and needs a class that meets their needs. The kid with a 120 at a high SES school is on grade level and has no need for LIV services. I almost feel like the schools with more kids on grade level should be determining services on an annual basis using iReady, grades, and SOL scores, the same way many schools determine Advanced Math. I suspect that is too close to tracking, which seems to be a dirty word, so it won't happen but I think it would be a better fit for most kids.

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Anonymous wrote:I do a lot of in-school volunteer work. AAP gets the better teachers and for the most part the kids are better behaved. The parents of kids on the cusp lobby really hard to get their kids into AAP, because the non-AAP classes are really slow. Lots of non-English speakers, lots of remediation, lots of behavioral/emotional challenges, lots of kids who are way too mature for their age (not in a good way).

The AAP classes have enrichment because they have parents at home supporting that enrichment: securing supplies, reminding kids of deadlines, helping out with the projects. Usually the AAP kids are the ones in the after-school chess lessons, or Lego robotics, or Odyssey of the Mind. The AAP classes win the read-a-thon and thus get the pizza or ice cream parties. The AAP parents buy the “pizza with the principal” at the PTA auction.

What is the cusp? There seems to be a ton of overlap between the two groups. Some of the top of Gen Ed kids would probably fall right in the middle of aap....
Signed mom of a Gen ed kid with 99%ile on iready with no supplementation or enrichment. Imagine what this kid could do with enrichment, but that would just make the 8 hours spent at school even more boring...

Not sure iready is the best indicator for advanced learner.

That didn't answer the question. Probably made you feel really good about yourself.
What is the cusp? It is known that there is a lot of overlap between the kids at the top of Gen Ed and the kids in aap.

Not the PP you quoted who said stuff about the cusp. The bolded is true. If you really want to know you can look at the hard numbers in the 2020 outside committee report and see exactly what the cusp is. In terms of CogAT/NNAT there's a huge range around 100-135 on both where a kid could either be in or out (mostly out on the lower end and mostly in on the higher end), plus that tail at high SES schools of kids with great scores who don't get in.

And it's probably 100% school dependent whether those "kids on the cusp" actually fight to get in. I worked hard to get my kids admitted, but I know lots of people at our mid SES base/center who really didn't care either way. They put together a parent referral and once they got rejected happily moved on to gen ed.

What did this fighting entail?

1. Parents may appeal the original AAP decision
2. Parents may lobby the base school principal/staff to have the child principal placed in a LLIV classroom
3. Parents may apply on behalf of the child for AAP again in 3rd, 4th, etc. This may involve supplementing while waiting, prepping & retaking the CogAT, etc.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I do a lot of in-school volunteer work. AAP gets the better teachers and for the most part the kids are better behaved. The parents of kids on the cusp lobby really hard to get their kids into AAP, because the non-AAP classes are really slow. Lots of non-English speakers, lots of remediation, lots of behavioral/emotional challenges, lots of kids who are way too mature for their age (not in a good way).

The AAP classes have enrichment because they have parents at home supporting that enrichment: securing supplies, reminding kids of deadlines, helping out with the projects. Usually the AAP kids are the ones in the after-school chess lessons, or Lego robotics, or Odyssey of the Mind. The AAP classes win the read-a-thon and thus get the pizza or ice cream parties. The AAP parents buy the “pizza with the principal” at the PTA auction.

What is the cusp? There seems to be a ton of overlap between the two groups. Some of the top of Gen Ed kids would probably fall right in the middle of aap....
Signed mom of a Gen ed kid with 99%ile on iready with no supplementation or enrichment. Imagine what this kid could do with enrichment, but that would just make the 8 hours spent at school even more boring...

Not sure iready is the best indicator for advanced learner.

That didn't answer the question. Probably made you feel really good about yourself.
What is the cusp? It is known that there is a lot of overlap between the kids at the top of Gen Ed and the kids in aap.

Not the PP you quoted who said stuff about the cusp. The bolded is true. If you really want to know you can look at the hard numbers in the 2020 outside committee report and see exactly what the cusp is. In terms of CogAT/NNAT there's a huge range around 100-135 on both where a kid could either be in or out (mostly out on the lower end and mostly in on the higher end), plus that tail at high SES schools of kids with great scores who don't get in.

And it's probably 100% school dependent whether those "kids on the cusp" actually fight to get in. I worked hard to get my kids admitted, but I know lots of people at our mid SES base/center who really didn't care either way. They put together a parent referral and once they got rejected happily moved on to gen ed.

What did this fighting entail?

It depends on the school. My kids go to a school with a bunch of high SES kids - there's like a 5% low income population. Everyone is super high achieving. The only difference between the AAP and the general ed classes is advanced math.

My friends kids go to a school with a high low-income population, but not high enough to be able to get Title I resources. In that school, the AAP class moves faster because all the kids know English and most of the children are well behaved.

5th Grade math has progressed quite rapidly this year.

Anonymous wrote:If your child’s has a strong teacher, they know how to challenge them. AAP is not needed.

but one can predict stronger teachers in AAP, per this thread. my child is in second grade now and teacher is not good. very excited for AAP.

Literally just advanced math and more Indian and Asian students. Literally that's it. I personally don't love the peer group, those parents are nuts and they don't want to socialize outside of their little groups.

Only the math is accelerated in late elementary.

Literally just advanced math. Can confirm. Twins - one in AAP and one is not. Center school.

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Anonymous wrote:More project based learning. The math is a full grade advanced. Kids are overall more interested in learning so the teacher can move at a faster pace.

So they literally start with fourth grade math in third? That would be fine with me but was not expecting it.

Any examples of what you mean by project-based learning? Is it defined by the curriculum or does it vary by teacher? Also curious about how much independence they get relative to regular class.

They are doing the same math but just more extensions. So where are the other classes are tested on multiplication tables up to 10 the aap class will go to 12 or for subtraction they might go out two additional digits. My child has a lot of friends in the pbl classes and the work hasn't been significantly different. They are also doing the same science and social studies units at our school.

I have two kids who went through AAP and have a kid who just got in. The 3rd grade math is not all that advanced or fast. I can only imagine how slow gen ed math is. A bright kid can do the AAP math with zero effort. My oldest will take AP calculus BC as a junior as will most of the kids he was in AAP with in elementary school. A few kids will move forward in math outside of school and try to take algebra in 6th grade.

Given that they just watered down 3rd grade advanced math even more for 2024-2025, enjoy next year!

Anonymous wrote:AAP is a self-selecting group of UMC kids whose parents prioritize education.

At some centers.

At the lower SES centers this is not guaranteed.

If your child’s has a strong teacher, they know how to challenge them. AAP is not needed.

Seems at our non center school all the kids are mixed together. There are very few AAP kids