Anonymous wrote:Ok can someone please square the circle

Schools are harder to get into than ever before yet we are hearing from faculty that there is a crisis of basic competence in the student body.

What is going on?

There are still excellent public schools out there. Mostly in blue states.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The kids from my DS’s (affluent) high school who are getting into T25 schools are so extraordinarily well-prepared it’s not even funny. Once there, they encounter students from other parts of the country who are on financial aid and ill-prepared.

Fixed it for you

We can quibble over word choice, but it answers the question. Colleges are choosing kids BECAUSE they come from disadvantaged backgrounds. So it should come as no surprise that there is a basic competence problem. A friend’s son at HYP is blown away by how incapable his DEIFGLI peers are. Truly struggling.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ok can someone please square the circle

Schools are harder to get into than ever before yet we are hearing from faculty that there is a crisis of basic competence in the student body.

What is going on?

IT's simple---those applying to T25 schools are not the same ones who are "in a crisis of basic competence"

A kid can get into Harvard, despite the fact 40% of their HS class will not graduate/barely graduate and 60% won't even go to college. One has nothing to do with the other

No, I mean specifically faculty at t20s who say that there is a crisis of competence with their undergrads these days

Not the general unwashed population

The type of kids who go to Ivies are cramming academics. They are not babysitting, working at fast food restaurants, mingling with the hoipolloi, trying sketchy substances and making mistakes, dating, fixing cars, hunting, fishing, balancing checkbooks, helping single parents, etc. They don't have responsibilities and so crumble at life.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My DS is at a Catholic college. He was used to writing essays on midterms and finals in HS (Catholic). His college friends from public school avoid or drop courses where they have to write essays on tests/midterms/finals (think blue books) because they have no experience writing them without help.

Cool. It more than likely won’t matter in the long run. Very few people are really good writers—even among the highly educated—and very few people really need to be these days.

Interesting. I work in law and policy and I basically write for a living. Being able to organize my thoughts and cogently communicate them is an essential skill for me. Chat GPT is fine for emails and performance reviews but is not effective (maybe not effective yet) for in depth policy papers or legal briefs.

Anonymous wrote:There are more students but not more colleges.

There are over 3,000 colleges, many of which are struggling with enrollment decline. There just aren’t enough seats in the colleges you think are good enough for your kid. We don’t need more colleges, we need people to stop the singular focus on T25.

Anonymous wrote:My DS is at a Catholic college. He was used to writing essays on midterms and finals in HS (Catholic). His college friends from public school avoid or drop courses where they have to write essays on tests/midterms/finals (think blue books) because they have no experience writing them without help.

Cool. It more than likely won’t matter in the long run. Very few people are really good writers—even among the highly educated—and very few people really need to be these days.

My DS is at a Catholic college. He was used to writing essays on midterms and finals in HS (Catholic). His college friends from public school avoid or drop courses where they have to write essays on tests/midterms/finals (think blue books) because they have no experience writing them without help.

Anonymous wrote:There are more students but not more colleges.

This is certainly a factor. I’ve read this was the biggest class of 18yr olds and it declines from here

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ok can someone please square the circle

Schools are harder to get into than ever before yet we are hearing from faculty that there is a crisis of basic competence in the student body.

What is going on?

IT's simple---those applying to T25 schools are not the same ones who are "in a crisis of basic competence"

A kid can get into Harvard, despite the fact 40% of their HS class will not graduate/barely graduate and 60% won't even go to college. One has nothing to do with the other

No, I mean specifically faculty at t20s who say that there is a crisis of competence with their undergrads these days

Not the general unwashed population

Academics at these colleges live off of belittling those they deem insignificant. It’s utter bs, the top of the current generation is the most prepared cohort of students in living memory.

Based on… what exactly?

chatgpt doing a lot of work plus cheating

also test optional

There are more students but not more colleges.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ok can someone please square the circle

Schools are harder to get into than ever before yet we are hearing from faculty that there is a crisis of basic competence in the student body.

What is going on?

IT's simple---those applying to T25 schools are not the same ones who are "in a crisis of basic competence"

A kid can get into Harvard, despite the fact 40% of their HS class will not graduate/barely graduate and 60% won't even go to college. One has nothing to do with the other

No, I mean specifically faculty at t20s who say that there is a crisis of competence with their undergrads these days

Not the general unwashed population

Academics at these colleges live off of belittling those they deem insignificant. It’s utter bs, the top of the current generation is the most prepared cohort of students in living memory.

This is just one, subjective datapoint, but I went to a T20 school in the 90's, and my DD and her classmates are far superior to the high school version of me. They work harder, have way more ECs, have better standardized scores, are taking more advanced classes and APs, and are generally nicer and more empathetic that my generation was. This generation, at least in my circles, feels far more competent than my generation.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Holistic admissions is the problem. Admit high stat test takers only and you won’t need remedial classes in T20 schools.

I disagree. First, test taking ability is not the only indicator of success and second, how do you distinguish between all of the 1580-1600s?

Less than 10k test takers every year score a non-superscored 1560+… Less than 1k score 1600. Not too many to sort through.

But schools allow superscoring. The prep maniacs will lose their sh!t if their kids can’t take the test 5-10 times to get a 1600.

Anonymous wrote:The kids from my DS’s (affluent) high school who are getting into T25 schools are so extraordinarily well-prepared it’s not even funny. Once there, they encounter students from other parts of the country who are on financial aid and ill-prepared.

Fixed it for you