Anonymous
Post 04/05/2025 08:30     Subject: Is Italy perfect?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Everytime I visit I am in awe and get depressed going back to the US.

Same goes for when I travel elsewhere in Europe like Spain and Portugal. The food, weather, beautiful people, work-life balance, cost of living.


The cost of living is low because the salaries are low. The average salary in Italy is 1200€/month for a professional with experience. My friend is a teacher and hasn’t had a raise in 19 years.

I’ll take any Weatern European country over the US, but all the countries have their own issues. You just need to pick the issues as they align with your must/nice to haves.

The US is highly individualist and it’s very hard for most of them to be happy in more collectivist societies. There are a lot of sacrifices to be made in the name of the well-being of the group.


Yes, the wages and salaries are ridiculously low.

We spent a few weeks traveling all over Italy last summer and had some rather candid discussions with locals (think: spending the day with a private driver/tour guide). While we assumed the salaries would be low, we were shocked by what we discovered.

There’s a reason people drive scooters or walk: practically nobody can afford a car and insurance costs more than housing does (which gets you to another conversation about crime).

Nonetheless, our time in Italy was magical—and we were there during the very warm summer alongside tons of other tourists. Nonetheless, it was amazing. The food, the atmosphere, and the warm summer nights wandering around cities, villages, and coastal towns were amazing.

Can’t wait to go back (summer 2026 can’t come fast enough!)…but I wouldn’t want to live there.

Anonymous
Post 04/05/2025 08:14     Subject: Is Italy perfect?
Anonymous wrote:A friend moved their for her husbands job a few years ago. She couldn’t wait to move back home. She was treated like an outsider, it was far too religious for her, she hated the inefficiency, found it deeply isolating and more. She still likes being a tourist in Italy but would never live there again.


Maybe she was in the south? I know zero Italians thst are religious. I know waaaaaayyyy more Americans who go to church, synagogue or mosque than I do Italians. The Catholic Church is in a mega crisis because Italians have very little interest in religion.
Anonymous
Post 04/05/2025 08:12     Subject: Is Italy perfect?
Anonymous wrote:I’ve thought about this a lot. The issue isn’t the cost of living - it’s the bureaucracy, difficult to access health care and lack of my own Italian language skills to navigate any of it.


Healthcare is not difficult to access if you don’t live in a rural area. Speaking from experience. Italy has among the top healthcare systems in the world - higher than the U.S. in reality. Your Bethesda life has nothing to do with the average American.
Anonymous
Post 04/05/2025 08:09     Subject: Re:Is Italy perfect?
Anonymous wrote:Good god no.

Over 20% of Italians face food insecurity.
The population is aging.
The bureaucracy is insane and complicated.
Corrupt politics.
Violence against women and girls
Discrimination

It's very difficult to change the status into which you were born.

Just..no. Stop romanticizing it based on your experience in vacation.



But they still have nationalized healthcare and aren’t shooting schools up. Go figure.
Anonymous
Post 04/05/2025 08:06     Subject: Is Italy perfect?
Anonymous wrote:No.

Have you read anything about Giorgia Meloni?



She sucks but is looking pretty damn same next to Trump and Co. and the US oligarchs. The thing with Meloni is she loves fame and power more than being right wing. Still crazy but softening up since she started getting some attention on world stage, eg used to be pro-Putin, then did an about face recently.
Anonymous
Post 04/05/2025 08:04     Subject: Is Italy perfect?
Anonymous wrote:and taxes are outrageous


The taxes are not outrageous, you get what you pay for. How much do you pay for private school, bad public transportation, no nationalized healthcare, few regulations to protect the customer and individuals, and let’s not even go into public safety and the environment? You are paying every month for the mess that the US is, you just haven’t added up the hidden costs. And there are many….
Anonymous
Post 04/05/2025 08:01     Subject: Is Italy perfect?

Well Denmark salaries are very high


Denmark has among the highest taxes in Europe. The average salary after tax is 38,000€. Don’t even look at registration tax on cars - a car worth over 28,000€ has a 150% tax. There is a reason Denmark is the most generous country in Europe. The taxes are very high and residency permits are almost impossible to get.

Anonymous
Post 04/05/2025 07:55     Subject: Is Italy perfect?
Anonymous wrote:Everytime I visit I am in awe and get depressed going back to the US.

Same goes for when I travel elsewhere in Europe like Spain and Portugal. The food, weather, beautiful people, work-life balance, cost of living.


The cost of living is low because the salaries are low. The average salary in Italy is 1200€/month for a professional with experience. My friend is a teacher and hasn’t had a raise in 19 years.

I’ll take any Weatern European country over the US, but all the countries have their own issues. You just need to pick the issues as they align with your must/nice to haves.

The US is highly individualist and it’s very hard for most of them to be happy in more collectivist societies. There are a lot of sacrifices to be made in the name of the well-being of the group.
Anonymous
Post 03/15/2025 18:43     Subject: Is Italy perfect?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Depends on where in Italy you are and what makes you happy but yes, it's very close to perfect for me

All the talk about taxes is BS. Between my property tax, insurance, healthcare, state and fed taxes and tuition for K-12 public school for my 2 kids, no way I am I saving money on the tax from living in US. I do not believe people truly understand the definition of value.

Expensive things are not unreasonable providing ROI. Nobody complains if they spend money on an expensive vacation or dinner if it's worthwhile. Paying tons of money upfront so you don't worry about paying more money in 10 increments is not paying more - you really need to analyze ROI.


Your tax dollars support a functioning (for now!) and leading economy that allows you to hold a high earning job. Wages are much, much higher here in the US and there are reasons why. Go do some research on what salaries look like in even Northern European countries. Of course you need paid parental leave for a year when you’re an engineer who earns 60k at 44 years old.


Well Denmark salaries are very high
Anonymous
Post 03/15/2025 15:28     Subject: Is Italy perfect?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Depends on where in Italy you are and what makes you happy but yes, it's very close to perfect for me

All the talk about taxes is BS. Between my property tax, insurance, healthcare, state and fed taxes and tuition for K-12 public school for my 2 kids, no way I am I saving money on the tax from living in US. I do not believe people truly understand the definition of value.

Expensive things are not unreasonable providing ROI. Nobody complains if they spend money on an expensive vacation or dinner if it's worthwhile. Paying tons of money upfront so you don't worry about paying more money in 10 increments is not paying more - you really need to analyze ROI.


Your tax dollars support a functioning (for now!) and leading economy that allows you to hold a high earning job. Wages are much, much higher here in the US and there are reasons why. Go do some research on what salaries look like in even Northern European countries. Of course you need paid parental leave for a year when you’re an engineer who earns 60k at 44 years old.



All those “successful” Northern European countries are totally racist.
Anonymous
Post 03/15/2025 15:26     Subject: Is Italy perfect?
Anonymous wrote:Everytime I visit I am in awe and get depressed going back to the US.

Same goes for when I travel elsewhere in Europe like Spain and Portugal. The food, weather, beautiful people, work-life balance, cost of living.


HUGE black market economy. So much work spent dodging the law. Try owning a business there.
Anonymous
Post 03/15/2025 11:42     Subject: Is Italy perfect?
Tax evasion is pretty strong. Vendors prefer to be paid in cash and will press you to be paid in cash so that they don’t have to report the income.
Anonymous
Post 03/15/2025 11:39     Subject: Is Italy perfect?
Everyone tries to evade the taxes and work cash jobs in order to evade the taxes.

It can take several months to get your utilities hooked up. Everything takes longer to do than in the US.

Women typically are expected to shop for the groceries. Men do not shop for groceries within the Italian culture.
Anonymous
Post 03/14/2025 05:49     Subject: Is Italy perfect?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I did not want to leave Portugal and was planning to fake my death to stay. I had major depression following my return to work and family life.


I love this

Yeah I did not want to leave CR or Italy. Or Banff. Or Aix.

But Italy has a special place in my heart.

To all you folks that talk about how good US has it over Italy, you're idiots.

Everything about the US is a function of money v time. Yeah we have a lot but it comes at a price, Italy may have little but what you have you didn't have to leverage. You can have it "all" in that you can have your time and your $. It'll be less money but because you have more time, the money goes further so to speak. Make no mistake, the work that brings the cash in white collar any way is totally based on how much you are able to excel and typically that requires quite a commitment. Most people who make a lot don't have that time to play. They can outsource and play hard but they are working longer than they are playing. That's the American way.

In many other countries it's just a different lifestyle. While you may prefer American life, the a Italian one doesn't require the work hard/play hard attitude as much as the love your life attitude and to a lot of people, like myself, that's what I believe.

It's why Italy has the potential to be perfect.


I disagree based on my friendships with Europeans. I find they do work a bit less, but have less flexibility and also can’t outsource. They spend an inordinate amount of time on chores and tasks I don’t have to do. For example one of my friends works PT because it was worse from a cash flow perspective for her to work FT and hire cleaners / use daycare. They also deal with all sorts of restrictions that are aimed at making life easier but don’t necessarily do so. Things like stores being closed on certain days, people being out for ages on sick and parental leave, wait lists for medical care, etc.

Anonymous
Post 03/14/2025 05:45     Subject: Is Italy perfect?
Anonymous wrote:Depends on where in Italy you are and what makes you happy but yes, it's very close to perfect for me

All the talk about taxes is BS. Between my property tax, insurance, healthcare, state and fed taxes and tuition for K-12 public school for my 2 kids, no way I am I saving money on the tax from living in US. I do not believe people truly understand the definition of value.

Expensive things are not unreasonable providing ROI. Nobody complains if they spend money on an expensive vacation or dinner if it's worthwhile. Paying tons of money upfront so you don't worry about paying more money in 10 increments is not paying more - you really need to analyze ROI.


Your tax dollars support a functioning (for now!) and leading economy that allows you to hold a high earning job. Wages are much, much higher here in the US and there are reasons why. Go do some research on what salaries look like in even Northern European countries. Of course you need paid parental leave for a year when you’re an engineer who earns 60k at 44 years old.