Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FWIW: Jobs, Gates, Branson, Zuckerberg, Winfrey, Spielberg, Turner, Dell ... Geffen ... Wozniak ... did not graduate from college.

Most of that list does not persuade me toward the anti-college perspective.

Plus that puts terrible pressure on our kids.

A liberal arts education is invaluable and especially needed in today’s world.

Not attending is not an option for my kids. We will be sure to make the best financial and academic decisions to get the highest ROI.

Just what we need in America, more uneducated people 😉

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sounds like an excuse to not save for college

Genuinely curious - What is with the blind allegiance to college here? This board is so antsy and active. Honestly wondering why so many hopes are pinned to this and why worth seems to be measured by what college your kid goes to. "Pointy" kids? Even the terminology is dehumanizing. What is the allure?

Well, this the college forum. Would you post on the travel forum that people should rethink travel or on the parenting forums that folks should rethink children? Another forum might get you a bigger range of opinions.

Anonymous wrote:For upward mobility, college is usually the go to… however, if the family doesn’t have money to afford school, it can be done for a low cost and with upward mobility achieved.

Neither of my parents had degrees… My dad worked at the grocery store, my mom was a stay at home mom until I was in high school, she then worked as a bank teller. Needless to say, they didn’t have money. We were not impoverished, but definitely lower middle class.

My parents hammered college into me from as long as I can remember. But, they didn’t have money. So, I went to community college for 60 credits and then transferred to a commutable state school, where I got my engineering degree. I went on to get a graduate degree in business and I may have graduated with around $6k in student loans. And I graduated Around 25 years ago.

In my opinion, that is much better than graduating with ~$100k or more in student loans debt for going to an expensive university.

Although, had I known more then, some of the prestigious universities may have given me a full ride on need-based aid…

The alternative for kids where college is not the answer is a decent trade school. Electricians and plumbers can do very well.

And if they don’t know what to do. Perhaps consider the appropriate branch of military or coast guard and take a few years to figure it out.

AND let them help pay for your education/training.

Anonymous wrote:We recently remodeled and both our plummer and electrician told us they're not recommending a trade for their kids. They want their kids to go to college. A good friends is a driver at UPS, who makes good money as a union member, is paying for his kid to attend college. The jobs don't offer flexibility or mobility and as a PP noted, are physically demanding. Everyone can't be in a trade. While there is demand now, that will taper. Look at what happened to all the folks who jumped into truck driving during Covid. Those jobs dried up as demand ebbed. Despite the current anti-education trend by some, note Barron is at NYU and Elon has a kid at Brown. So college for me, but not for thee.

This is exactly what they want. They want access to higher education to return to aristocrats only. It's much harder to gain authority over and govern an educated populace, far easier and ego-sustaining to exert power over the poor and ignorant who are dependent upon you and your resources and "generosity."
Look how many Republican politicians bash the "elite Ivy" leaguers and want to do away with the "liberal" university system; yet where did they all get their law degrees that got them where they are? Hypocrites.

Anonymous wrote:Absolutely, absolutely not.

I strongly, strongly believe even in the trades, a solid business understanding is critical. My view is even if they are working and licensed as a plumber, they need to build themselves up because the physical labor will be too much at a certain point and they need to own/run their own business to protect themselves, mentor other apprentices, etc. That requires education. It may not be in a dorm, but I would expect them to study at NOVA and GMU and get a business degree/accounting degree to understand the financials of their livelihood.

Really, college is also a critical social opportunity. In terms of networks, it is really important to build one with peers and those kids who are doing well are the ones you want to know/date/marry.

DP I would add that, since our public K-12 system is clearly doing a very poor job of it, we would be better off with more of our electorate getting a good liberal arts college degree - or at least a rudimentary understanding of our government, what it is, why it is the way it is, how it works, and how it is not intended to work. An educated electorate, however, is the last thing Republicans want.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sounds like an excuse to not save for college

Genuinely curious - What is with the blind allegiance to college here? This board is so antsy and active. Honestly wondering why so many hopes are pinned to this and why worth seems to be measured by what college your kid goes to. "Pointy" kids? Even the terminology is dehumanizing. What is the allure?

Can your kid not get out of the 1200s, is that it, Barbara?

OP here. My kids are in elementary school. Who's Barbara? If you mean Streisand, it's spelled Barbra.

What alternative post-high school path will you encourage your kids to go down, OP? I think the main reason most parents focus on college is the fact that statistically, college educated adults earn much more money than non-college educated adults. We are all hoping to set our kids up for financial stability and success.

Good question! My kids are young but already I see myself getting sucked into the stressful ecosystem of tracking, leveling, rankings -- it comes up in social conversations, on the sidelines at sports, etc. Parents enrolling their kids in club sports to get an edge or Russian math so they're a grade ahead. It just all seems so sad. I don't know that I wouldn't want my kids to go to college -- but I would want to think long and hard about what truly sparks joy for them. Perhaps a gap year. Perhaps a trade school. Perhaps an apprenticeship.

But I am reluctant to just send them into the sausage-grinder where their worth is measured by Naviance and "stats." It feels inhumane.

Pursuing college does not require joining the hyper-competitive superficial parents who are focused on the college name and rank. If you can't separate the two, then it seems to me that you just can't/won't understand the value of a college-level education.

Anonymous wrote:FWIW: Jobs, Gates, Branson, Zuckerberg, Winfrey, Spielberg, Turner, Dell ... Geffen ... Wozniak ... did not graduate from college.

Most of that list does not persuade me toward the anti-college perspective.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We've told our kids to pursue the trades or anything they like -- after college. They will have a college degree.

Why would you pay for college, and for a trade school?

DP. I would prefer that my kids have a full education for the sake of being a well-educated person. I don't care what career they choose to follow.

For upward mobility, college is usually the go to… however, if the family doesn’t have money to afford school, it can be done for a low cost and with upward mobility achieved.

Neither of my parents had degrees… My dad worked at the grocery store, my mom was a stay at home mom until I was in high school, she then worked as a bank teller. Needless to say, they didn’t have money. We were not impoverished, but definitely lower middle class.

My parents hammered college into me from as long as I can remember. But, they didn’t have money. So, I went to community college for 60 credits and then transferred to a commutable state school, where I got my engineering degree. I went on to get a graduate degree in business and I may have graduated with around $6k in student loans. And I graduated Around 25 years ago.

In my opinion, that is much better than graduating with ~$100k or more in student loans debt for going to an expensive university.

Although, had I known more then, some of the prestigious universities may have given me a full ride on need-based aid…

The alternative for kids where college is not the answer is a decent trade school. Electricians and plumbers can do very well.

And if they don’t know what to do. Perhaps consider the appropriate branch of military or coast guard and take a few years to figure it out.

Anonymous wrote:I come from a trade family and I am super proud of it, but it was insanely hard on the body over time. Outdoor work, physical labor, it’s a job you need an early exit plan for

My dad worked a trade. He would have been livid if I had done the same. It was hard on him.

I come from a trade family and I am super proud of it, but it was insanely hard on the body over time. Outdoor work, physical labor, it’s a job you need an early exit plan for

Anonymous wrote:FWIW: Jobs, Gates, Branson, Zuckerberg, Winfrey, Spielberg, Turner, Dell ... Geffen ... Wozniak ... did not graduate from college.

Same for pretty much everyone in maximum security prisons.