Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Mudd/Pomona if you can get into the lottery and Grinnell.

Not really worth it otherwise.

+1, but even Grinnell is also heavily lotteried, esp students targeting CS + Stats / Data Science

What does lotteried mean in the Grinnell context? There is no limit on number of CS majors at Grinnell. The classes can be difficult to get but they prioritize them like they do other popular classes. I don’t know all the algorithm details but older students needing courses for major generally have priority.

You can only take 1 class per semester and the course registration system has 4 rounds. There’s a lot of issues with grinnell’s CS program

DD wants CS and a LAC so Grinnell is on the list. Can you elaborate on the issues?

It looks like PP DID elaborate.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Mudd/Pomona if you can get into the lottery and Grinnell.

Not really worth it otherwise.

+1, but even Grinnell is also heavily lotteried, esp students targeting CS + Stats / Data Science

What does lotteried mean in the Grinnell context? There is no limit on number of CS majors at Grinnell. The classes can be difficult to get but they prioritize them like they do other popular classes. I don’t know all the algorithm details but older students needing courses for major generally have priority.

You can only take 1 class per semester and the course registration system has 4 rounds. There’s a lot of issues with grinnell’s CS program

DD wants CS and a LAC so Grinnell is on the list. Can you elaborate on the issues?

One way to get a sense of which of these undergraduate focused institutions have the most developed CS curriculums is to count the number of professors in their CS depts. I have made an attempt to do so below for LACs mentioned on this thread and a couple others I thought might be of interest. I did not include emeritus profs (usually retired) or lecturers (usually either not full time or lack PhDs.) I did include visiting profs. Of course this is a quick and dirty take; faculty count is an interesting data point but is not the full picture. Of course universities will have far larger counts, but then you have to take into account the usual stuff (the undergrads are a third priority after research and grad students, and what time is spent on undergrads is spread over far larger populations.)

1. Harvey Mudd- 18
2. Swarthmore- 16
3. Carleton- 15
4. Williams- 14
4. Middlebury- 14
6. Oberlin- 12
7. Smith- 11
8. Davidson- 9 *
8. Bowdoin- 9
8. Amherst- 9
8. Lafayette- 9
8. Union- 9
13. Grinnell- 8
13. Pomona- 8
13. Denison- 8
16. Hamilton- 6
16. Reed- 6
16. Wesleyan- 6
19. St Olaf- 5
20. Kenyon- 3**


* Davidson doesn’t have a separate CS department but they do have a CS major. The dept is still combined with math, a practice that was common in past decades. I made an attempt to determine how many of the combined faculty are primarily focused on CS based on research interests.

** Kenyon doesn’t have a CS dept or major but a CS “concentration” which is more like an interdepartmental minor. I made an attempt to determine how many faculty are primarily focused on CS based on research interests.

University of Tulsa. Serious merit scholarships.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What are some of the real good LACs or small colleges for computer science? + also good creative writing

Want to avoid greek / frat culture

Honestly for CS go to an ivy other than dartmouth or brown, or go to CMU caltech or MIT. The class sizes are not too huge, comparable to LAC, and the CS bubble is bursting as far as hiring, for all but the tippy top schools. If it must be a LACthen harvey mudd or swarthmore for CS. Mine is CS at penn and have high school friends engineering/CS Swarthmore columbia and cmu. All great programs with top outcomes even in 2024 downturn

+1
Would add about 5-6 schools to this list, but basically if you do not do a CS Bachelors at one of 20ish schools these days, plan to get a masters or phD if your goal is a job not replaceable by AI. The target school list for hiring straight from a BS shrunk dramatically the past 2 cycles. It is clear it is already a little worse for current seniors, marking what appears to be the biggest CSbubble to burst since early 00s. Go for any Engineering, or math or physics instead, or as a double major.

Shut up.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Mudd/Pomona if you can get into the lottery and Grinnell.

Not really worth it otherwise.

-1 Williams cs is okay and swat is great for CS PhD

Who wants to go to grad school for CS? CS professors are WAY underpaid and the good tech work is done in private industry

Yes, with great salaries and research opportunities for people with PhDs..

CS PhD is 400k plus right out of school at Meta.

If you’re talented enough for meta, you can ditch the PhD and work up with two year job stints and get the same pay without having to experience abject poverty for a degree.

phD stipends in STEM are not at all "abject poverty", they run 50-70k if you maximize grant apps. Even masters can get stipends: DS friend at masters in stem at Stanford and gets 65k per year to live off of plus can get more if wants to TA extra. In addition free tuition, fees, health insurance and more. DS is going for phD (applying now, has interviews already) and the job he wants needs phD. All the programs he is applying to are fully funded with very generous stipends guaranteed and many get additional funding. Private sector tech targets these programs for grads to head labs and similar. 300k+ starting, vs same companies pay 110-140k for bachelors from a TOP school(think ivy+ or CMU, UCB, GaTech), otherwise want masters. DS interned for a known tech sector company and the hiring tiers for different degrees as well as what school you come from was eye-opening.

Id love for you to try to stretch 65k in Palo Alto. That’s a miserable stipend that’s only that “high” because the area is so expensive.

Palo Alto parent checking in. It's hard to make ends meet with even a salary of $200K in Palo Alto. Housing (and food) costs are insane.

Anonymous wrote:DS double majoring in CS and Econ at Davidson. Excellent education and he’s been able to get into CS courses with ease, although freshman year was more challenging. The research and internship opps are stellar.

+1

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What are some of the real good LACs or small colleges for computer science? + also good creative writing

Want to avoid greek / frat culture

Honestly for CS go to an ivy other than dartmouth or brown, or go to CMU caltech or MIT. The class sizes are not too huge, comparable to LAC, and the CS bubble is bursting as far as hiring, for all but the tippy top schools. If it must be a LACthen harvey mudd or swarthmore for CS. Mine is CS at penn and have high school friends engineering/CS Swarthmore columbia and cmu. All great programs with top outcomes even in 2024 downturn

+1
Would add about 5-6 schools to this list, but basically if you do not do a CS Bachelors at one of 20ish schools these days, plan to get a masters or phD if your goal is a job not replaceable by AI. The target school list for hiring straight from a BS shrunk dramatically the past 2 cycles. It is clear it is already a little worse for current seniors, marking what appears to be the biggest CSbubble to burst since early 00s. Go for any Engineering, or math or physics instead, or as a double major.

*should

15 of the top 20 feeders into CS PhD programs by matriculation rate are LACs. Considering how CS is the most selective PhD program right now, that should tell you something. Only the very top CS students have a chance. Most CS PhDs go into high level industry jobs. Far easier to use AI or outsourcing for tasks that don’t require the research skills developed during a PhD program.

I have hired hundreds of software developers. The anti LAC bias of some on this site shout be ignored.

https://www.collegetransitions.com/dataverse/top-feeders-phd-programs

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What are some of the real good LACs or small colleges for computer science? + also good creative writing

Want to avoid greek / frat culture

Honestly for CS go to an ivy other than dartmouth or brown, or go to CMU caltech or MIT. The class sizes are not too huge, comparable to LAC, and the CS bubble is bursting as far as hiring, for all but the tippy top schools. If it must be a LACthen harvey mudd or swarthmore for CS. Mine is CS at penn and have high school friends engineering/CS Swarthmore columbia and cmu. All great programs with top outcomes even in 2024 downturn

So only go to schools with 2% acceptance rates for cs majors. Noted.

lol. Go to CMU. Easy admit. 😂😂😂

Anonymous wrote:Mudd/Pomona if you can get into the lottery and Grinnell.

Not really worth it otherwise.

+1

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What are some of the real good LACs or small colleges for computer science? + also good creative writing

Want to avoid greek / frat culture

Honestly for CS go to an ivy other than dartmouth or brown, or go to CMU caltech or MIT. The class sizes are not too huge, comparable to LAC, and the CS bubble is bursting as far as hiring, for all but the tippy top schools. If it must be a LACthen harvey mudd or swarthmore for CS. Mine is CS at penn and have high school friends engineering/CS Swarthmore columbia and cmu. All great programs with top outcomes even in 2024 downturn

So only go to schools with 2% acceptance rates for cs majors. Noted.

Anonymous wrote:What are some of the real good LACs or small colleges for computer science? + also good creative writing

Want to avoid greek / frat culture

Honestly for CS go to an ivy other than dartmouth or brown, or go to CMU caltech or MIT. The class sizes are not too huge, comparable to LAC, and the CS bubble is bursting as far as hiring, for all but the tippy top schools. If it must be a LACthen harvey mudd or swarthmore for CS. Mine is CS at penn and have high school friends engineering/CS Swarthmore columbia and cmu. All great programs with top outcomes even in 2024 downturn

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Mudd/Pomona if you can get into the lottery and Grinnell.

Not really worth it otherwise.

-1 Williams cs is okay and swat is great for CS PhD

Who wants to go to grad school for CS? CS professors are WAY underpaid and the good tech work is done in private industry

Yes, with great salaries and research opportunities for people with PhDs..

CS PhD is 400k plus right out of school at Meta.

If you’re talented enough for meta, you can ditch the PhD and work up with two year job stints and get the same pay without having to experience abject poverty for a degree.

phD stipends in STEM are not at all "abject poverty", they run 50-70k if you maximize grant apps. Even masters can get stipends: DS friend at masters in stem at Stanford and gets 65k per year to live off of plus can get more if wants to TA extra. In addition free tuition, fees, health insurance and more. DS is going for phD (applying now, has interviews already) and the job he wants needs phD. All the programs he is applying to are fully funded with very generous stipends guaranteed and many get additional funding. Private sector tech targets these programs for grads to head labs and similar. 300k+ starting, vs same companies pay 110-140k for bachelors from a TOP school(think ivy+ or CMU, UCB, GaTech), otherwise want masters. DS interned for a known tech sector company and the hiring tiers for different degrees as well as what school you come from was eye-opening.

Id love for you to try to stretch 65k in Palo Alto. That’s a miserable stipend that’s only that “high” because the area is so expensive.

+100 susbsidized housing has an income limit of $250,000 (that’s a crazy sentence to type)! The median income is in the $300,000 range. $60k is a poverty wage in Palo Alto.