Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Parents are delusional, or normalize or excuse the behavior and/or are simply ignoring - hoping kid will grow out of it.

Or they medicate the heck out of the kid and consider that the sole solution but they’ve essentially checked out at that point. .

This really doesn’t make sense. Parenting used to be far more hands off. Kids just went outside and played. That’s what kids do in hunter gatherer cultures that are still around.

We’re parenting all the time and it wears us all out. Being stricter is better as it makes kids better to be around.

I agree with this. I also don't see the "gentle parenting" shift others always complain about. Are there some outlier parents who don't discipline their kids at all? If course. That was also true in the 80s when I grew up -- my area had some hippies who did stuff like smoke weed with their kids and considered any kind of rules as an imposition of "the man." Their kids ran wild. Ironically, a lot of them became super traditional as adults. Though some stayed wild.

In my circle of parents (UMC, DC and close in suburbs, mostly highly educated professionals) the norm is intensive, highly involved parenting. Even the more "hands off" parents are more involved than even the strictest parents where I grew up. My parents were pretty strict but they let me watch TV for hours a day, didn't supervise homework (though I'd get in high trouble if my grades slipped), and rarely if ever got involved in my social life. But most parents I know restrict screen time, are highly involved in kids academics, extra-curriculars, and social lives, and spend a lot more time watching their kids and addressing behaviors that could be considered problematic, whether it's poor table manners or refusing to interact with adults.

I have a kid with special needs and am in some support groups for that. One thing that comes up often is that the very high standards for parenting and kid behavior causes a lot of anxiety for parents of SN kids. Like not just behavioral standards and worrying about our kids being rude or annoying. But very high standards for achievement, socializing, and extra-curriculars. I think there is less understanding around kids who don't make friends easily or can't balance intense extra-curriculars amd school. When the "average" kid (in our social circle) gets mostly As and Bs, does a travel sport, plays an instrument, speaks a second language at least conversationally, can converse comfortable with adults, and has an active social life outside school and ECs, that's daunting for kids with executive functioning issues, social issues, or anxiety. The standards are so high.

I just do not see a widespread trend of parents who are checked out or ignoring bad behavior. Outliers, yes. Always been true. But mostly I think standards for parents have gone up and expectations for what kids do and how they behave are sky high.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Crying, screaming, and even hitting are developmentally normal at certain ages so it is hard to tell given the vagueness what is normal/not and what is just a developmental stage/personality/a problem.

Swearing is not, and I would say cursing/swearing reveals something more about your friends than anything else. Plenty of people can come off as put together or normal parents but might go home and be completely out of control — cursing at their kids, berating them, and otherwise being emotionally or physically abused.

Their “good” kids don’t tell you anything — I was a “good” kid to emotionally immature parents because I knew making a “mistake” (being a normal child) would end in abuse for me. My parents were always complimented on being excellent parents and came off as normal but they were terrible at home. My older brother — with severe behavioral issues, who drinks, swears, has issues with domestic violence, really tells the truth of what was going on in my house.

Modeling is the answer here. Smack your kid and yell/berate/curse at them? You’ve just normalized that for the rest of their lives

The kid is 10, not 2-3.

NP here: that is the case sometimes unfortunately and it’s not seen from the outside. My kid has some mild special needs so that predisposes them further. From the outside we are a great family. Well, behind closed doors the dad yells, swears, throws things at spouse and kid. Not enough for the mom to get full custody though. So this is where said kid learns this stuff. Kid speaks that way at school but dad will never admit it. I hope they don’t end up like your brother but they might.

I don’t know ..
However we’ve had kids tell their parents to F off and another one to go away in our home in our face

Husband and I could t believe it..

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Their parentings skills suck. I know people like this. They are the type to sit in first class and leave their kids alone in economy to fend for themselves. They will give 3 of them 1 I-pad to fight over for the flight and stay blissfully unaware several rows ahead.

...this is oddly specific

We have a friend whose kids fight constantly. I wish they would give them an iPad. Even on a flight or long road trip, the parents refuse to give the kids any screens. Instead they suffer through whining and fighting and parents often say how terrible the trip was because kids were fighting the whole time.

Sometimes you have to play the long game, though.

We went on a summer odyssey from dc to the midwest and back in our packed to the gills Honda Odyssey (8 people, including the grandparents.) Two day trip in both directions. Zero screens in the car. Air conditioning conked out half way through. The kids did absolutely, unbelievably well -- giggling, chatting, reading, singing, playing card games. A few years back, shorter trips were more thunderdomey.

Anonymous wrote:Parents are delusional, or normalize or excuse the behavior and/or are simply ignoring - hoping kid will grow out of it.

Or they medicate the heck out of the kid and consider that the sole solution but they’ve essentially checked out at that point. .

This really doesn’t make sense. Parenting used to be far more hands off. Kids just went outside and played. That’s what kids do in hunter gatherer cultures that are still around.

We’re parenting all the time and it wears us all out. Being stricter is better as it makes kids better to be around.

You sound like a very young, inexperienced parent. Do kids misbehave sometimes? Yes. For you to label them bad is pretty arrogant. Give it some time. Either your kid will be the "bad" kid sometime or you just got lucky.

Parents are delusional, or normalize or excuse the behavior and/or are simply ignoring - hoping kid will grow out of it.

Or they medicate the heck out of the kid and consider that the sole solution but they’ve essentially checked out at that point. .

Parenting culture is very unhelpful. It socializes us to be too lenient. That's all well and good for that % of children who are naturally cooperative and don't make trouble. It's much less effective for the other sort of kid and there's plenty of those too.

My kids are spread across a wide range of ages. I am getting sterner by the year. Not mean, but more stern. It is helping, although I suspect ADHD is present in more than one kid.

I just want to note that as a parent if a very difficult kid who is a really pretty well behaved like 90% of the time (and whom we parent with limits, appropriate discipline, and lots one lots of modeling/teaching of skills and tools to navigate life) I never judge parents by a single experience with their kids. You just don't know.

People with easy going or highly compliant kids don't get it. When their kids get dysregulated because they are hungry or tired or had a bad day, they might get quiet, fall asleep in the car, whine a little.

When my kid gets dysregulated, she gets angry and loud. It's actually a million times better now than a few years ago, but I have absolutely been the parent whose kid is screaming at the top of her lungs, refusing to do what's asked, making a huge scene. I think I've handled those moments okay as a parent but the truth is no one cares. You can have the perfect response to that and most people will still look at you like lepers because your kid is being disruptive and scary and they just want you to go away.

You can't parent in those situations hoping for the approval of other parents. That is sure to steer you wrong. I've had parenting coaching and read ALL the books and worked with a behavioral therapist and most of the time, in that situation, your kid needs understanding and kindness. No one wants to hear that. I'm a parent who sets limits, gives consequences. But not if my kid has just completely lost it. That's actually exactly when you need to be gentle, non-punitive, and supportive. You talk through it later, they will probably be other consequences. But in the moment when the whole playground is staring and thinking what a crap mom you must be? That is the moment when you are very gentle. And they'll all think "oh look at this terrible, permissive mom -- that's why her kid is like that." And you just gave to let them think that. Oh well.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Crying, screaming, and even hitting are developmentally normal at certain ages so it is hard to tell given the vagueness what is normal/not and what is just a developmental stage/personality/a problem.

Swearing is not, and I would say cursing/swearing reveals something more about your friends than anything else. Plenty of people can come off as put together or normal parents but might go home and be completely out of control — cursing at their kids, berating them, and otherwise being emotionally or physically abused.

Their “good” kids don’t tell you anything — I was a “good” kid to emotionally immature parents because I knew making a “mistake” (being a normal child) would end in abuse for me. My parents were always complimented on being excellent parents and came off as normal but they were terrible at home. My older brother — with severe behavioral issues, who drinks, swears, has issues with domestic violence, really tells the truth of what was going on in my house.

Modeling is the answer here. Smack your kid and yell/berate/curse at them? You’ve just normalized that for the rest of their lives

Perhaps that kid has parents like yours, but it very well could be that the kid picked it up cursing from other kids and continues to do it because the parents do not approve. There’s no way, from the outside, to tell which scenario is happening inside the home.

The OP replied that the kid is 10 — still young to be exposed to explicit language, so again causes me to ask what are the parents really like and what exactly is that child being exposed to at home (either by their parents saying it, or exposing them to explicit media).

You are right - there is no way to tell what is going on at home, so to jump to the conclusion that these are perfect people with a bad egg is just as much as a reach as me saying a kid isn’t born learning to curse and rage but is probably picking that up in their home environment from parents who know better than to show their friends that side of them during 1-2 hour ocasional public outings.

More than anything, bad parents like this are desperate for approval from their peers and put public perception over the wellbeing of their children. It’s easy to write it off as “the woes of gentle parenting” but the reality is that there are a lot of actually bad parents that care more about what their friends think than how their kids feel, and it is so so stupid.

The process might be a little endogenous. People with kids who are ADHD or who have sensory issues might experience a lot of cognitive dissonance if they admit that their kids have poor behavior. Instead, they becomeore blasé about acting up than they might otherwise have been.

Anonymous wrote:Special needs either you don’t know about or they don’t.

This.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Their parentings skills suck. I know people like this. They are the type to sit in first class and leave their kids alone in economy to fend for themselves. They will give 3 of them 1 I-pad to fight over for the flight and stay blissfully unaware several rows ahead.

...this is oddly specific

We have a friend whose kids fight constantly. I wish they would give them an iPad. Even on a flight or long road trip, the parents refuse to give the kids any screens. Instead they suffer through whining and fighting and parents often say how terrible the trip was because kids were fighting the whole time.

Anonymous wrote:Their parentings skills suck. I know people like this. They are the type to sit in first class and leave their kids alone in economy to fend for themselves. They will give 3 of them 1 I-pad to fight over for the flight and stay blissfully unaware several rows ahead.

...this is oddly specific

Anonymous wrote:Crying, screaming, and even hitting are developmentally normal at certain ages so it is hard to tell given the vagueness what is normal/not and what is just a developmental stage/personality/a problem.

Swearing is not, and I would say cursing/swearing reveals something more about your friends than anything else. Plenty of people can come off as put together or normal parents but might go home and be completely out of control — cursing at their kids, berating them, and otherwise being emotionally or physically abused.

Their “good” kids don’t tell you anything — I was a “good” kid to emotionally immature parents because I knew making a “mistake” (being a normal child) would end in abuse for me. My parents were always complimented on being excellent parents and came off as normal but they were terrible at home. My older brother — with severe behavioral issues, who drinks, swears, has issues with domestic violence, really tells the truth of what was going on in my house.

Modeling is the answer here. Smack your kid and yell/berate/curse at them? You’ve just normalized that for the rest of their lives

Perhaps that kid has parents like yours, but it very well could be that the kid picked it up cursing from other kids and continues to do it because the parents do not approve. There’s no way, from the outside, to tell which scenario is happening inside the home.