Anonymous wrote:The math curriculum in US is very slow. It's not advanced academy, it's just normal academy in other countries. In China, Japan and Eastern Europe, all student study Algebra at 7th grade.

Let me fix this for you…

All students who score high on exams given in ES and are placed on specific tracks take Algebra in 7th grade. Kind of like what FCPS does. The rest of the world uses tests in to track students into specific tracks and programs. There were newspaper articles when Prince George was in 5th grade that he was worried about his upcoming exams because they would determine what classes he could take in Year 6 and beyond. If you don’t score well enough on those exams in 5th grade, you attend a different type of school and you don’t sit the exams needed to attend college. Other European and Asian countries have similar systems.

The US doesn’t do this. US test scores include kids in SPED programs, ELL programs, and general Ed programs. European and Asian test scores include kids who tested into the college prep programs. It is very different and the numbers are not really comparable.

I would guess comparing kids in AP/IB programs in the US to the rest of the world would show that the US is not really behind but that is not how the US handles education.

The math curriculum in US is very slow. It's not advanced academy, it's just normal academy in other countries. In China, Japan and Eastern Europe, all student study Algebra at 7th grade.

Anonymous wrote:Most parents see AAP as nothing more than the good old gen ed program, and the current gen ed is the new name for the old remedial instruction. For most advanced students in AAP, the curriculum is watered down to accommodate students admitted on a non-academic, holistic basis. Many individuals who hold grudges against AAP student families assume the AAP curriculum must be challenging, but it’s not. It's quite laughable when one claims outside help is relied on to breeze through the watered down AAP

It’s not my *opinion* that outside help is often needed: my kid’s AAP friends have had tutors at the first sign of trouble. This continues into HS and then breeds cheating. Of course AAP isn’t challenging for other kids. Their parents have been paying for enrichment at Mathnasium / Russian School of Math for years!

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Anonymous wrote:My kids are young adults now but I still look back on the 3rd Grade AAP madness with extreme PTSD. Parents go absolutely nuts over this. I was no exception. Did getting into AAP have any lasting ng term impact on my kids? I don’t know. My inclination is that they learned early on that they achieved an academic accolade that was making everyone’s parents crazy. So in a weird way it instilled in my kids some level of confidence in their own smarts. And it did set the trajectory for the type of kids who became their peers—for better or worse.

My kid is in therapy unwinding the damage AAP did. She’s a sensitive, artsy kid and AAP drove her to perfectionism and imposter theory. She’s clearly not an imposter (at a highly regarded school in a PhD program), but struggles with anxiety that she says was exacerbated by AAP.

Think long and hard about AAP. It’s a nice trophy for the parents but I’m not sure how much is influences ultimate outcome. I would argue it’s not worth it for many kids.

Are you sure it wasn’t exacerbated by you, the parent? Teachers and schools don’t really put pressure, if anything they mostly de-emphasize aap these days.

Partially, yes. She says mainly the other students and the competitive atmosphere. She also thought she was not as smart (especially in math), having no idea that many kids had already seen the material in outside supplemental courses.

There are a lot of factors at play, but she specifically pinpoints AAP as the start of her anxiety. I think it was not a fit for her. Academically, she loved the challenge but she hated the emphasis on math competitions, etc. She is a natural learner and learns because she is curious. She did not like making learning a competition.

Thanks for elaborating and sharing your perspective. Do you think it was AAP generally or something about how it was done at her particular school? I wonder if there's much variation across schools. I have to agree with you that the emphasis on competition seems unnecessary.

She may have been great at math but kids often make self-comparisons with others as well as within themselves (many girls tend to think they are not good at math because they get better grades in LA, for example).

It was several years ago as she is in grad school now so maybe the program has softened. She was at Haycock, which at the time was very competitive (a lot to love there, but crazy competitive). She is actually really good at math, but has ADHD, which I think impacts working memory and computation speed. She was terrible at memorizing and spitting back the math facts, etc but was one of the best puzzle solver/decider types I’ve ever seen. Unfortunately, the focus was on memorizing and spitting back early on and that convinced her she was bad at math. In college she figured out she is good at higher level math but makes simple computational errors.

Anyway, I think AAP can be great for some kids, but it is not great for all. I would not push my kid in or prep for the cogat (which we did not do—we weee shocked at her scores and that she was in the pool). Your kid will be fine without it.

Most parents see AAP as nothing more than the good old gen ed program, and the current gen ed is the new name for the old remedial instruction. For most advanced students in AAP, the curriculum is watered down to accommodate students admitted on a non-academic, holistic basis. Many individuals who hold grudges against AAP student families assume the AAP curriculum must be challenging, but it’s not. It's quite laughable when one claims outside help is relied on to breeze through the watered down AAP curriculum.

What many parents and kids don’t realize is that many families view the AAP program as so crucial that they obtain tutoring to get ahead with academics and hire pricey AAP advisors to ensure their kids get in regardless of initial testing scores. It is ridiculous. No wonder there is rampant cheating and use of AI to maintain high grades through HS. It is so ingrained in these “top” kids that they MUST get As in the highest rigor at any cost — and they’ve been taught through all the outside help that they can’t hack it on their own. It’s really a shame — and a sham. I have one kid in AAP and one not. Yes, it changes the peer group a bit, but honors classes in middle school are opt-in, as are APs/honors in HS. My rule follower kid with great exec functioning skills is in AAP. My outside-the-box thinker kid, who cares less about what everyone thinks and who comes up with ideas for new inventions daily, is not in AAP. Draw your own conclusions.

For vast majority of AAP students, the AAP curriculum is not advanced at all. For most students in Gen Ed, the Gen Ed curriculum itself is quite challenging. Why so?

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kids are young adults now but I still look back on the 3rd Grade AAP madness with extreme PTSD. Parents go absolutely nuts over this. I was no exception. Did getting into AAP have any lasting ng term impact on my kids? I don’t know. My inclination is that they learned early on that they achieved an academic accolade that was making everyone’s parents crazy. So in a weird way it instilled in my kids some level of confidence in their own smarts. And it did set the trajectory for the type of kids who became their peers—for better or worse.

My kid is in therapy unwinding the damage AAP did. She’s a sensitive, artsy kid and AAP drove her to perfectionism and imposter theory. She’s clearly not an imposter (at a highly regarded school in a PhD program), but struggles with anxiety that she says was exacerbated by AAP.

Think long and hard about AAP. It’s a nice trophy for the parents but I’m not sure how much is influences ultimate outcome. I would argue it’s not worth it for many kids.

Are you sure it wasn’t exacerbated by you, the parent? Teachers and schools don’t really put pressure, if anything they mostly de-emphasize aap these days.

Partially, yes. She says mainly the other students and the competitive atmosphere. She also thought she was not as smart (especially in math), having no idea that many kids had already seen the material in outside supplemental courses.

There are a lot of factors at play, but she specifically pinpoints AAP as the start of her anxiety. I think it was not a fit for her. Academically, she loved the challenge but she hated the emphasis on math competitions, etc. She is a natural learner and learns because she is curious. She did not like making learning a competition.

Thanks for elaborating and sharing your perspective. Do you think it was AAP generally or something about how it was done at her particular school? I wonder if there's much variation across schools. I have to agree with you that the emphasis on competition seems unnecessary.

She may have been great at math but kids often make self-comparisons with others as well as within themselves (many girls tend to think they are not good at math because they get better grades in LA, for example).

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kids are young adults now but I still look back on the 3rd Grade AAP madness with extreme PTSD. Parents go absolutely nuts over this. I was no exception. Did getting into AAP have any lasting ng term impact on my kids? I don’t know. My inclination is that they learned early on that they achieved an academic accolade that was making everyone’s parents crazy. So in a weird way it instilled in my kids some level of confidence in their own smarts. And it did set the trajectory for the type of kids who became their peers—for better or worse.

My kid is in therapy unwinding the damage AAP did. She’s a sensitive, artsy kid and AAP drove her to perfectionism and imposter theory. She’s clearly not an imposter (at a highly regarded school in a PhD program), but struggles with anxiety that she says was exacerbated by AAP.

Think long and hard about AAP. It’s a nice trophy for the parents but I’m not sure how much is influences ultimate outcome. I would argue it’s not worth it for many kids.

Are you sure it wasn’t exacerbated by you, the parent? Teachers and schools don’t really put pressure, if anything they mostly de-emphasize aap these days.

Partially, yes. She says mainly the other students and the competitive atmosphere. She also thought she was not as smart (especially in math), having no idea that many kids had already seen the material in outside supplemental courses.

There are a lot of factors at play, but she specifically pinpoints AAP as the start of her anxiety. I think it was not a fit for her. Academically, she loved the challenge but she hated the emphasis on math competitions, etc. She is a natural learner and learns because she is curious. She did not like making learning a competition.

We were at a Title I school. The teacher recommended our kid. We accepted in the hopes she wouldn't be assaulted for a 3rd time in the same year by going to a different school.

Kids at our Title 1 school were more than a handful. Never once, when coming home from school, did our kid talk about a single aspect of the academics during the day, she only told us about the disruptive behavior by other students, day-in and day-out. She was choked, hit w/ a shoe and pantsed, all in 2nd grade.

Now she talks about academics and not student behavior problems.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kids are young adults now but I still look back on the 3rd Grade AAP madness with extreme PTSD. Parents go absolutely nuts over this. I was no exception. Did getting into AAP have any lasting ng term impact on my kids? I don’t know. My inclination is that they learned early on that they achieved an academic accolade that was making everyone’s parents crazy. So in a weird way it instilled in my kids some level of confidence in their own smarts. And it did set the trajectory for the type of kids who became their peers—for better or worse.

My kid is in therapy unwinding the damage AAP did. She’s a sensitive, artsy kid and AAP drove her to perfectionism and imposter theory. She’s clearly not an imposter (at a highly regarded school in a PhD program), but struggles with anxiety that she says was exacerbated by AAP.

Think long and hard about AAP. It’s a nice trophy for the parents but I’m not sure how much is influences ultimate outcome. I would argue it’s not worth it for many kids.

Are you sure it wasn’t exacerbated by you, the parent? Teachers and schools don’t really put pressure, if anything they mostly de-emphasize aap these days.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kids are young adults now but I still look back on the 3rd Grade AAP madness with extreme PTSD. Parents go absolutely nuts over this. I was no exception. Did getting into AAP have any lasting ng term impact on my kids? I don’t know. My inclination is that they learned early on that they achieved an academic accolade that was making everyone’s parents crazy. So in a weird way it instilled in my kids some level of confidence in their own smarts. And it did set the trajectory for the type of kids who became their peers—for better or worse.

My kid is in therapy unwinding the damage AAP did. She’s a sensitive, artsy kid and AAP drove her to perfectionism and imposter theory. She’s clearly not an imposter (at a highly regarded school in a PhD program), but struggles with anxiety that she says was exacerbated by AAP.

Think long and hard about AAP. It’s a nice trophy for the parents but I’m not sure how much is influences ultimate outcome. I would argue it’s not worth it for many kids.

With all due respect, how do you know it was AAP and not, say, parenting or genetics? As someone whose child is not currently in AAP, I'm genuinely curious. What kind of PhD program? Do you think she would have excelled as she did in an ordinary classroom?

Anonymous wrote:My kids are young adults now but I still look back on the 3rd Grade AAP madness with extreme PTSD. Parents go absolutely nuts over this. I was no exception. Did getting into AAP have any lasting ng term impact on my kids? I don’t know. My inclination is that they learned early on that they achieved an academic accolade that was making everyone’s parents crazy. So in a weird way it instilled in my kids some level of confidence in their own smarts. And it did set the trajectory for the type of kids who became their peers—for better or worse.

My kid is in therapy unwinding the damage AAP did. She’s a sensitive, artsy kid and AAP drove her to perfectionism and imposter theory. She’s clearly not an imposter (at a highly regarded school in a PhD program), but struggles with anxiety that she says was exacerbated by AAP.

Think long and hard about AAP. It’s a nice trophy for the parents but I’m not sure how much is influences ultimate outcome. I would argue it’s not worth it for many kids.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:In lower SES schools, getting your kid in the AAP class gets them in a segregated class with mostly white and asian children that are high performing. There are typically fewer disruptive children in that class. Oh, and advanced math. That's pretty much the only curriculum difference.

Yup. Social and economic segregation is the goal of AAP.

Freely admitting that this was a driving factor for me. Poor kids (generally) have bad habits (not their faults) that I didn't want my daughter picking up on. Can't really relate to the race part because I know lots of high performing white, hispanic, asian, black, middle eastern people and I know low performing members of those groups too. If anything interactions with the poor whites (in this area often liberal not conservative) were the biggest fear. Lazy attitudes and expectations of handouts and student loan forgiveness. Yes, AAP segregates, and that's the point.

Wow.

Hey, at least they are honest.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In lower SES schools, getting your kid in the AAP class gets them in a segregated class with mostly white and asian children that are high performing. There are typically fewer disruptive children in that class. Oh, and advanced math. That's pretty much the only curriculum difference.

Yup. Social and economic segregation is the goal of AAP.

Freely admitting that this was a driving factor for me. Poor kids (generally) have bad habits (not their faults) that I didn't want my daughter picking up on. Can't really relate to the race part because I know lots of high performing white, hispanic, asian, black, middle eastern people and I know low performing members of those groups too. If anything interactions with the poor whites (in this area often liberal not conservative) were the biggest fear. Lazy attitudes and expectations of handouts and student loan forgiveness. Yes, AAP segregates, and that's the point.

Wow.