Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP Here to answer additional questions:
Deed to the house is in MIL's name only.

BIL refuses to get a diagnosis or even speak to any sort of mental or physical health provider. We tried and he told them that we were trying to have him committed, but all we wanted was a diagnosis so we could look at group homes for him. He speaks to ghosts, has paranormal experiences, yells and screams irrational things at people, refuses to engage with helping his mom with anything (won't even read her mail to her), and spends all his time airing grievances against everyone and everything. He's also loud and big so he scares and intiimates people.

He can't afford the house on his own after she passes away. It will have to be sold. We might be able to buy him a condo with the proceeds, but we just don't think he can live independently. He doesn't cook, clean, pay bills, or understand that thins like power cost money.

Your husband needs to get POA over your MIL’s finances ASAP. We had the same situation and mentally ill brother got POA because they lived together. It was a nightmare.

OP here, we tried. The lawyer said she wasn't competent enough to sign the forms. But she gave DH access to her bank account so we pay all her bills and make sure she has some savings.

Then why isn’t your DH seeking a conservatorship or guardianship? Your BIL sounds like he may be suffering from schizophrenia. The time to act is now, and it will be safest for MIL if you can move her out before telling BIL. She shouldn’t be alone with him. For all of your sakes you need to get a handle on the numbers and act now.

That’s surprising; someone can have dementia and still be competent enough to make certain decisions, like POA. I didn’t know a lawyer can determine capacity. In MD, you and your BIL would be joint decision-makers. It’s great that you have access to her finances, that will be a huge help when the time comes for placement in assisted living or nursing home.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You should not spend one dime funding him.

You also shouldn’t count on getting one dime when she passes.

Realistically, there’s nothing you can do.

We had the same situation in my family. Siblings washed their hands of insane uncle and signed the house over to him after their mother passed. He lost the house within a year and has disappeared.

This may be how it goes, OP.

How is MIL’s health besides memory?

+1 I am a PP who works in a hospital and we have many homeless patients who are similar to your BIL. It’s terrible but this is a consequence of years of dysfunction and bad decisions.

Anonymous wrote:OP Here to answer additional questions:
Deed to the house is in MIL's name only.

BIL refuses to get a diagnosis or even speak to any sort of mental or physical health provider. We tried and he told them that we were trying to have him committed, but all we wanted was a diagnosis so we could look at group homes for him. He speaks to ghosts, has paranormal experiences, yells and screams irrational things at people, refuses to engage with helping his mom with anything (won't even read her mail to her), and spends all his time airing grievances against everyone and everything. He's also loud and big so he scares and intiimates people.

He can't afford the house on his own after she passes away. It will have to be sold. We might be able to buy him a condo with the proceeds, but we just don't think he can live independently. He doesn't cook, clean, pay bills, or understand that thins like power cost money.

What is his job, then? It must be menial labor (if he does not understand basic things/life skills). Is he able to manage his own bank account/finances (I understand he is not paying bills)? Does he drive or take public transportation? I’m just trying to get a sense of the extent of his limitations/disability.

Regardless - it is going to take a crisis to get any forward momentum, unfortunately. If your mother has a hospitalization, you should take advantage of the social work staff there. They are mandated reporters and can loop in Adult Protective Services if her home environment is unsafe for discharge due to hoarding or if her decision-making puts her at risk (i.e. planning to depend upon your brother for whatever care she needs at home). She can also be evaluated by the psychiatry team for decision-making capacity if need be. But all of that relates to a crisis like a hospitalization; it’s a bit harder to do anything while your mom is at home. APS does step in when the hoarding gets to an extent that a home is uninhabitable or the situation is unsafe (you would likely have to report it).

I did not read the whole thread so I apologize if this was answered - is there a POA (medical and financial)? That is essential. It would enable you to step in if and when your mother loses capacity. You would be able to get her into the assisted living, sell the house, work with a rehab facility to transition your mom to long-term care, whatever the scenario. And if your mom is in the hospital and is deemed to lack capacity, you could step in as her surrogate decision-maker, not your BIL.

But again, you’re likely going to have to wait for a crisis point. There will simply be no choice - your BIL will have to move out and the chips will fall as they will. Hopefully, the bad news won’t have to come from you and he might see you as an ally to help get him out of a bad situation rather than trying to “ruin his life.”

It’s an incredibly difficult situation with no easy path or situation.

As someone whose relative was hoarding and refusing treatment for anything and everything she had, I have to agree with the poster saying there isn’t much you can do. Try to make sure the home ownership is transferred to your H asap (Medicaid asset protection being one of the reasons). After mil dies try to have bil involuntarily committed during one of his outbursts to start the paper trail. It’s not for the faint of heart

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here, wow, that escalated quickly.

A few notes:
BIL is not dangerous, never has been, and holds down a PT job where he works 30ish hours a week, mostly overnight.

Yes, we are going to help MIL and BIL. We care about them and don't want them to suffer.

Thanks for all the input! We're going to reach out to adult services in their county for help.

The symptoms you described are consistent with schizophrenia and psychosis. It’s great he hasn’t been violent, but that’s not the only way danger comes into the situation. Your MIL is a vulnerable person living with a mentally ill AC who is probably also vulnerable. It’s not safe. It escalated because multiple posters suggested that MIL should essentially be punished and that her family has no responsibility. It’s relieving to know you actually plan to help.

That’s not what ppl were saying. Not punished, but, the fact remains that she does live with a mentally ill person and that will complicate the situation beyond belief. I’m sure most of the ppl telling OP to leave it alone have experience with this. In my opinion (based on experience), it’s actually worse that the BIL is with it enough to hold down a job because that means he’s with it enough to fight OP’s husband on everything. He’s got a job, no documented history of mental illness and he lives in the home, he’s going to be calling the shots because no court is going to declare him incompetent or give OP’s husband sole control of the MIL and her assets. He’s not going to take help from OP and her husband because he won’t see an upside in moving out of his home. So, it’s going to be a major conflict and there is a high likelihood that OP and her husband lose.

I assume some of these issues existed before he turned 18? To the person complaining about punishment, this is not punishment, this is dealing with the consequences of choices MIL made. Nobody can rescue her from these choices and save the brother. I would see if Adult Protective Services can help assess the situation and figure out options for him-which likely don't exist if he won't get evaluated.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would actually try to take a couple steps til I improve and help prolong the situation. I would talk her into getting a storage unit to store some of her stuff. I would hire a home healthcare helper and maid to come in a few days a week.

Best case scenario she passes away peacefully in her sleep at home and he keeps the house and he/you can afford a maid/helper to help keep him stable there.

Thanks, I think we're going to talk to a social worker next week about taking some of these steps. We just want her to be safe.

We've spoken to him about having to sell the house and he just refuses to understand that will happen. He can't afford to keep it; the property taxes will revert back to normal level (currently a senior rate) of $12k a year. He made $24k last year. We also can't help with these costs or paying for an aide for him. I think we could take the proceeds from the house and buy him a small condo, but he'd have to pay for monthly dues, power, etc. However, he tells us weekly how we've ruined his life, we don't want to help him, and tht he's not leaving, so we're sort of at a loss (much of this is the mental health issues rearing their ugly heads).

Thanks for the advice.

This entire thing will fall on your DH if your MIL dies suddenly. Please look into getting him SSDI if you think it’s a possibility. Sadly your best bet is if your MIL lives another 4 years so he can get early SS at age 62. I’d also seriously look into getting him on a waiting list for Section 8 housing. You can do almost everything online so you don’t have to worry about him not following up.

She can't get any of this if he has no diagnosis.