Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Okay, you're not high-strung, you're just writing a big-words essay at 6:19 AM about precisely what kind of preschool you think is best for everyone.

It sounds like you want a more play-based and child-led approach than you're going to get in DCPS. Yes, there's research, but DCPS has other considerations too. Like the feasibility of a truly child-led approach within DCPS' adult-child ratio, which is funding-driven. Like how much recess can each class have when the school has only one playground and 20+ classes. And the fact that not all parents feel as strongly about play-based as you do. Myself, I'm very up on the research literature through my job, but still felt that a hybrid play-based and direct instruction approach was perfect for my specific child.

You need to understand that in the lottery it's unlikely you'll get a PK3 spot at a school with strong test scores in the upper grades. Possible but unlikely.

Sadly, my kid woke up at 4:30AM and I didn’t fall back asleep. I had been meaning to post but kept forgetting. Sue me for thinking being more articulate would help get the point across. Your factious comment as to what you think my personality is like isn’t helpful.

And it’s not what I think is best, it’s what research shows. I have also stated that I do not care if there is some academics that are teacher led. The particular school I was in boundary for before I moved just seemed so strict I was worried this might be the norm.

I also didn’t say playground time specifically. 30 minutes isn’t ideal, 45-60 would be better but that would be fine if the rest of the day wasn’t small groups and whole group teacher-led all day.

You're not going to get what you're hoping for from DCPS. You're not going to get a 60-minute recess because those minutes are mandated to be used for other purposes. It's math. It's just not how it works in public school, and it's not up to the individual schools. And what on earth is wrong with small groups?

If you come in being like "The research proves that this is unequivocally best and therefore the school must provide it", you're just going to alienate everyone. Research changes! It comes and goes, it ebbs and flows, all kinds of stupid things have been rolled out as research-based and then rolled back again. If you hang your hat on the research you'll just annoy everyone and seem like an inexperienced preschool parent.

This is 100 years of research…it hasn’t changed in terms of play being best. American public school districts with universal PK don’t listen.

Nothing is wrong with small groups, just 30 minutes each day (for each kid) seems like a lot. And 60 min of whole group, not including the morning meeting. You are right the day is short, that’s why I was worried. When I raised concerns the school said it was the ‘gold standard in DCPS.’

I am inexperienced! That is why I am asking. I think the in boundary school would be Van Ness or Brent.

I'm the same poster who just wrote a novel above (with a kid at Dorothy Height). Gahhhh... I'm sorry those two schools are your possible options. Van Ness is largely Black, Title 1, and underperforming overall... Brent is pretty much the opposite (largely white, high SES, and the white kids are scoring well), but I think I would be more concerned sending my kid to Brent, where there are very few Black kids and the ones who do go there are generally doing poorly (only 15% of Black kids there score on grade level in ELA!).

It's very weird to use a school's 3rd-5th grade test scores to judge a how play-based its ECE program is.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Okay, you're not high-strung, you're just writing a big-words essay at 6:19 AM about precisely what kind of preschool you think is best for everyone.

It sounds like you want a more play-based and child-led approach than you're going to get in DCPS. Yes, there's research, but DCPS has other considerations too. Like the feasibility of a truly child-led approach within DCPS' adult-child ratio, which is funding-driven. Like how much recess can each class have when the school has only one playground and 20+ classes. And the fact that not all parents feel as strongly about play-based as you do. Myself, I'm very up on the research literature through my job, but still felt that a hybrid play-based and direct instruction approach was perfect for my specific child.

You need to understand that in the lottery it's unlikely you'll get a PK3 spot at a school with strong test scores in the upper grades. Possible but unlikely.

Sadly, my kid woke up at 4:30AM and I didn’t fall back asleep. I had been meaning to post but kept forgetting. Sue me for thinking being more articulate would help get the point across. Your factious comment as to what you think my personality is like isn’t helpful.

And it’s not what I think is best, it’s what research shows. I have also stated that I do not care if there is some academics that are teacher led. The particular school I was in boundary for before I moved just seemed so strict I was worried this might be the norm.

I also didn’t say playground time specifically. 30 minutes isn’t ideal, 45-60 would be better but that would be fine if the rest of the day wasn’t small groups and whole group teacher-led all day.

You're not going to get what you're hoping for from DCPS. You're not going to get a 60-minute recess because those minutes are mandated to be used for other purposes. It's math. It's just not how it works in public school, and it's not up to the individual schools. And what on earth is wrong with small groups?

If you come in being like "The research proves that this is unequivocally best and therefore the school must provide it", you're just going to alienate everyone. Research changes! It comes and goes, it ebbs and flows, all kinds of stupid things have been rolled out as research-based and then rolled back again. If you hang your hat on the research you'll just annoy everyone and seem like an inexperienced preschool parent.

This is 100 years of research…it hasn’t changed in terms of play being best. American public school districts with universal PK don’t listen.

Nothing is wrong with small groups, just 30 minutes each day (for each kid) seems like a lot. And 60 min of whole group, not including the morning meeting. You are right the day is short, that’s why I was worried. When I raised concerns the school said it was the ‘gold standard in DCPS.’

I am inexperienced! That is why I am asking. I think the in boundary school would be Van Ness or Brent.

I'm the same poster who just wrote a novel above (with a kid at Dorothy Height). Gahhhh... I'm sorry those two schools are your possible options. Van Ness is largely Black, Title 1, and underperforming overall... Brent is pretty much the opposite (largely white, high SES, and the white kids are scoring well), but I think I would be more concerned sending my kid to Brent, where there are very few Black kids and the ones who do go there are generally doing poorly (only 15% of Black kids there score on grade level in ELA!).

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What a fancy essay you have written here.

Some kids read at 3 regardless of their school's approach and school quality. Some kids wouldn't at even the best school regardless of the approach.

DCPS schools have a choice of certain curricula. Is there a particular curriculum you dislike? You seem to have confused "play-based" instruction with free play recess. They aren't the same thing and aren't intended to be. I doubt anyone is giving lectures to 3 year olds.

No, I have equated it to play. Free-play meaning child-directed and teacher supported. Building Blocks Math is a curriculum all PK teachers must use.

And funny, the research definitely does not show it’s ‘just PK.’
And we are also looking at privates, being a private pre-k does not automatically make it a good school.

I will ask teachers, so far it seems other parents equate Pre-K to glorified babysitting…

Not, high strung I’m simply curious what schools look like. Especially as a newer Black mom, in a city mostly failing Black children.

I completely get it... and I wish this weren't anonymous and there was some way for me to reach out to you directly. It was really disheartening looking at schools for my [Black] child and realizing that there are basically two (maybe three? I'm looking at you, Whittier. Lol.) elementary schools in DC that I would be comfortable sending my kid to long-term... and things don't look much better w/r/t equity in MoCo, PG, Arlington, or Fairfax. (Note to anyone who infers from my writing that I am educated and who wants to tell me that this is all a class issue and my high SES kid will be academically successful at a school where most Black kids are not doing well and that their [relative] wealth will insulate them, that's not how it works... if most kids who look like them at their school are performing far below grade level, they will be assumed to be low-performing by other kids and teachers, and that's a crappy situation to be in, to spend your time when you should be focused on learning having to prove that you are not low performing and to have to potentially distance yourself from the kids who look like you in order to do so.)

Most of the DCPS schools I visited do a lot of explicit, scripted phonics instruction starting in PK3 that has kids sitting at desks staring at a teacher writing on the whiteboard... which isn't developmentally appropriate and not what we were looking for. (We do want explicit letter recognition and phonics instruction, just not through that method.) Because we did not win the lottery last year, my kid ended up at our top-choice realistic (lottery-wise) school, Dorothy Height in Petworth, and we have been very happy with it... our only real complaint is that my kid hates having to wear a uniform color and it causes our family regular morning angst. Lol. My kid is thriving there in a very small class (11 kids) with a lead teacher with 25 years of PK3 experience (plus a full-time assistant teacher with 6 years of PK3 experience) and a Reggio Emilia play-based instructional methodology...other DCPS schools seem to use the Creative Curriculum instead. The Dorothy Height PK program is extremely diverse in all sorts of ways (especially racially and w/r/t SES) that are not currently reflected in the upper grades there. I don't know whether we will keep my kid there for all of elementary school... it largely depends on whether the other middle-class families choose to keep their kids there past PK and how the school is doing academically as a result of those choices. That typically doesn't happen because Dorothy Height doesn't have an inbound area and most of the middle class families move their kids to their bilingual inbound (Powell or Bruce Monroe) when they are guaranteed a seat in K, or to a bilingual charter, if they lottery into one. I'm wondering though whether more middle class families may stay now that the school is housed in a beautiful new building and has a good middle class school vibe... tbd.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We did not do prek in DCPS. But our neighbor did and there was worksheet homework. It wasn’t required but that was that. She pulled her kid out after 1 year.

What?? We’re in pre-k 4 now and they send homework packets home for long breaks. They are totally optional but my kid likes to do them (and I like to see what they’re working on). They also do little projects every now and then— draw a poster about your favorite animal and present it to these class. All of these things have been age appropriate and my kid has enjoyed— and they’re not getting graded or anything.

+1 Optional worksheets in pre-k are nice because some kids actually enjoy them. I've always had a worksheet kid -- she requests academic workbooks for long trips because she thinks they're fun.

I think the DCPS approach to homework in ECE and early grades is really about encouraging parental interest and involvement. It gives p parents something to look at and discuss with their kid. That's something the teachers used to tell us -- ask your child what they learned about the weather last week, ask them what we saw on our neighborhood walk today, etc. These are good, age appropriate "assignments" that get parents involved and connect home life and school life in productive ways.

+1. My 4 year old is also a homework kid. She usually does the entire optional packet on day one of break. It’s really not all bad!

Anonymous wrote:I think some of the variability at DCPS schools is due to parent communities and student needs.

I think Title 1 schools are more likely to assign homework because they are more likely to see the value in creating good habits around schoolwork earlier, and also will work harder to try and engage parents with school. There is no punishment for failing to complete the homework (and at a Title 1 school many students likely don't compete it because, by definition, many students at Title 1 schools have unstable home environments). But for the students who have parents who want to be supportive but many not know how, homework is an easy way to engage them with what is happening at school.

I think for students from families where English is not the primary language, homework can also be a helpful way to bridge that gap. For younger students, the instructions for homework are often in both English and Spanish. Homework can be a touchpoint with a parent who might otherwise struggle communicating with the teacher -- written communication makes it easier to bridge the language gap.

I think schools with higher income families often fight against homework because they don't consider it age appropriate. But also these families are much more likely to have their kids in enrichment activities including academic enrichment, and more likely to checking in on reading and math progress independently, because the parents often have more education and subscribe to a more intensive parenting approach. Homework is less needed at a school where parents will send their kids to math camp and buy them beast academy work books, and if the parents will complain anyway, why bother.

+1 this is the most succinct way I've seen this put. Homework for younger students is about learning habits at home, not content. And there are wide gaps between kids even at Title I schools.

I think some of the variability at DCPS schools is due to parent communities and student needs.

I think Title 1 schools are more likely to assign homework because they are more likely to see the value in creating good habits around schoolwork earlier, and also will work harder to try and engage parents with school. There is no punishment for failing to complete the homework (and at a Title 1 school many students likely don't compete it because, by definition, many students at Title 1 schools have unstable home environments). But for the students who have parents who want to be supportive but many not know how, homework is an easy way to engage them with what is happening at school.

I think for students from families where English is not the primary language, homework can also be a helpful way to bridge that gap. For younger students, the instructions for homework are often in both English and Spanish. Homework can be a touchpoint with a parent who might otherwise struggle communicating with the teacher -- written communication makes it easier to bridge the language gap.

I think schools with higher income families often fight against homework because they don't consider it age appropriate. But also these families are much more likely to have their kids in enrichment activities including academic enrichment, and more likely to checking in on reading and math progress independently, because the parents often have more education and subscribe to a more intensive parenting approach. Homework is less needed at a school where parents will send their kids to math camp and buy them beast academy work books, and if the parents will complain anyway, why bother.

Anonymous wrote:I’m curious about these schools that are getting optional homework starting in K? I have a second grader and we’ve never had homework or worksheets sent home. I have another in PK4 and I have no idea what they’re learning because we get next to no information. It would be great to get questions to ask. It’s interesting how much variability seems to exist across schools in DCPS.

my kids have been in two different DCPS elementary schools so I've experienced some of the variability.

the first one gave homework every day starting in 1st grade through 5th, although there was no consequence to not completing it. sometimes the admins at aftercare would make the kids do it and scold me and my kid for not doing it. My older kid dutifully did it, my younger kid never did. They both had near perfect report cards so I don't think the HW had any impact whatsoever on their grades or their learning. seemed to just add pressure to the kids without teaching them much.

The second one, there is no HW so far in 2nd. i've heard that this is optional HW starting in 3rd if the parents want something for their kids to work on at home. Since it's optional, I'm assuming there is no consequence to not doing it. This school also makes the kids do a lot more work during school (compared to the first school.)

First school Title 1, second school not Title 1.

I’m curious about these schools that are getting optional homework starting in K? I have a second grader and we’ve never had homework or worksheets sent home. I have another in PK4 and I have no idea what they’re learning because we get next to no information. It would be great to get questions to ask. It’s interesting how much variability seems to exist across schools in DCPS.

Our kid is in K. We get weekly worksheet packets from the teacher, which is 100% optional. But our kid likes to do about half the work sheets each week in the evenings.

I like it because it supplements what he's learning in class and I'm seeing what he's doing that week.

We did not get any worksheets in PK3 or PK4 at our school.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We did not do prek in DCPS. But our neighbor did and there was worksheet homework. It wasn’t required but that was that. She pulled her kid out after 1 year.

What?? We’re in pre-k 4 now and they send homework packets home for long breaks. They are totally optional but my kid likes to do them (and I like to see what they’re working on). They also do little projects every now and then— draw a poster about your favorite animal and present it to these class. All of these things have been age appropriate and my kid has enjoyed— and they’re not getting graded or anything.

+1 Optional worksheets in pre-k are nice because some kids actually enjoy them. I've always had a worksheet kid -- she requests academic workbooks for long trips because she thinks they're fun.

I think the DCPS approach to homework in ECE and early grades is really about encouraging parental interest and involvement. It gives p parents something to look at and discuss with their kid. That's something the teachers used to tell us -- ask your child what they learned about the weather last week, ask them what we saw on our neighborhood walk today, etc. These are good, age appropriate "assignments" that get parents involved and connect home life and school life in productive ways.

Anonymous wrote:We did not do prek in DCPS. But our neighbor did and there was worksheet homework. It wasn’t required but that was that. She pulled her kid out after 1 year.

Our Title 1 DCPS had no worksheets in PK. In K they would send home a bingo sheet for homework with the suggestion you try to get a "bingo" during the week. But the stuff on the sheet was stuff like "read together for 15 minutes" or "show my parents what I learned in PE" or "practice saying 1-10 in Spanish." They would sometimes put some worksheet items on the back of the bingo sheet (phonics or math stuff) and your kid could fill it out or not -- I think it was mostly to help parents know what they were working on.

Starting in 1st we had 10 minutes of homework each night. This moved to 20 minutes in 2nd and so on. Most kids do their homework during "power hour" at aftercare when teachers are available for tutoring. So we generally just review it when they get home.

I remember when DC was in K, a friend with kids in a charter saw the bingo sheet in our house and picked it up and started ranting about how terrible it was. But it wasn't. It was fine, helped keep us in the loop as to what was happening at school, and was very low pressure since you could always skip it if you needed to (which we did during times when our kid was clearly just worn out from the school day or we had other stuff going on in our lives).

I think people without kids in DCPS often assume the worst to help justify their own choices. Which you don't need to do. Do what you want. But this belief you have that DCPS is so terrible and doing all these developmentally inappropriate things... at least for us, it hasnt' been true at all. PK was phenomenal and while we haven't loved every single thing in K-3rd, on balance I think our kids are getting a good education, the teachers are skilled and kind, and the curriculum is very solid. It's a traditional public school education, which is also what I got and I am well-educated and successful.

Not every PreK in DCPS uses the same curriculum. Also, not every in bound kid is guaranteed a spot.

One of ours used a Reggio-inspired curriculum, and the other used Creative Curriculum.

Anonymous wrote:We did not do prek in DCPS. But our neighbor did and there was worksheet homework. It wasn’t required but that was that. She pulled her kid out after 1 year.

What?? We’re in pre-k 4 now and they send homework packets home for long breaks. They are totally optional but my kid likes to do them (and I like to see what they’re working on). They also do little projects every now and then— draw a poster about your favorite animal and present it to these class. All of these things have been age appropriate and my kid has enjoyed— and they’re not getting graded or anything.

DCPS identified multiple areas where our PK3 was developmentally behind and crafted an encompassing IEP that began in PK4. We talked about it with teachers and SpecEd reps throughout PK3. Our kid is now in K and doing A LOT better and still progressing with his IEP.

Very grateful for that. Our private well-regarded daycare (a feeder to Beauvoir) didn't point out any of the developmental issues that were apparent.

Anonymous wrote:I don't doubt the research, but my favorite thing about PK3 and PK4 is that my kid learned to follow directions and routines! I don't quite the see the longterm value of a 5 year old who still tantrums about having to put on a coat to go outside or needing to listening quietly while someone else is talking, if those things can be avoided with a little instruction and social reinforcement. Not trying to make this an either/or - just admitting that I don't know the parameters of this child-led play theory.

Same! My kid thrived with firm but gentle instructions and routine.