Anonymous wrote:What does “norm grade level mean” mean? Is that the school average?

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some years it is in early Nov.

Why on earth does it take so long? The score literally pops up on the kids' screens instantly...

Umm...you are on this forum. Have you not picked up on the trend? It's mcps. folks are here because something is wrong, information is not clear, no one knows the actual answer. So, to answer your question: it would be too easy for mcps to do what you think (scores appearing right away). If your precious Larlo didn't jot down his score (and didnt make a mistake writing it down), or memorize it, you gotta wait until report comes. Or bug the teacher.

The score reports are delivered 2 weeks after testing ends. The report includes county averages, so they need everyone's scores before they publish any reports. Then some admin has to go push some buttons. Do you want to pay for GAFA engineers to make a super sophisticated instant system?

Chilll out, folks.

Well noted, but riddle me this, Batman:

If middle school criteria-based magnet lotteries utilize these Fall MAP scores from 5th graders as entry gates (albeit locally normed), and

If score reports are delivered 2 weeks after testing ends, and

If that means mid-/late October for the Fall MAPs, and

If some schools scheduled MAP in the first week+ of September, and

If MAP scores largely correlate with exposure to content, and

If a considerable amount of content is taught between early September and early October (e.g., Math 5/6 covering operations with fractions), then

What does that say about the expected relative MAP scores for students fortunate enough to be taking MAP at the end of the testing window, and the resulting likelihood of placement in a magnet lottery pool?

Perhaps those who know the import of the test from schools having administered it early in the window have a more difficult time keeping it cool over the extra month.

(Notes: The MCPS Fall MAP testing window was 9/3-10/4. The Winter window, where 3rd-grade MAP-R scores are similarly used for placement in the CES lottery pool, is 12/16-1/28. MCPS has not employed the weeks-of-instruction adjustment available from NWEA to normalize MAP scores when determining lottery candidacy, and NWEA recommends a maximum 3-week testing window to reduce improper comparison among students.)

Kids who test high enough to qualify for these pools do so because of the exposure to content they receive outside of school, not because they happened to learn how to do long division late in the first quarter of the school year

This is not true. There are those who do not engage in outside tutoring/enrichment, and there are concepts to which students are newly exposed during the first quarter, which notably includes operations with fractions in Math 5/6. From these, there are some who test high enough. There are some who test just at the border of high enough, as well, and that extra content exposure can make the difference as to the side of the border on which they end up.

The only cohort for whom this is true is kids at high FARMS schools who can qualify for the pool with scores in the 70th percentile due to locally normed scores. There’s no way a kid at a low FARMS school where the cutoff can be as high as the low 90s percentile can pass that hurdle just by being very good at the content they’ve been exposed to at school.

You'd be wrong, there. There are kids with mathematically inclined minds who absorb concepts from daily life or are able to deduce concepts, to a degree, when presented with a question, though mathematical vocabulary can be an impediment when comparing to those receiving more formal exposure (e.g., tutoring). They demonstrate that across multiple tests (i.e., not in a one-off manner that would suggest lucky guessing).

And the low FARMS MAP-M cutoff has been higher than national percentiles in the low 90s. The low 90s made public by MCPS was in response to an MPIA request from a couple of years back and they haven't publicized the actual numbers since (those change each year with the actual set of scores achieved among MCPS students). They have acknowledged that the scores in MCPS, particularly in the low-FARMS and moderate-low-FARMS groupings, (and, then, locally normed percentiles) had gone up in following years. Parent comparisons of scores for those making/not making the lottery have suggested mid- to high-90s national percentiles for MAP-M.

I’m not buying it. A first grader who has never seen a division symbol isn’t going to know how to solve the problem regardless of how “mathematically inclined” their mind is. Same for a second grader who is asked to multiply fractions or find the area of a triangle. To score in the 95th, 96th percentile, a kid needs to have exposure to concepts grade levels beyond what they currently get. There’s no amount of “deducing concepts, to a degree” that will get there. I’m sure it helps in making educated guesses, but MAP-M is almost entirely a test of one’s mastery of content, not one’s math aptitude.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some years it is in early Nov.

Why on earth does it take so long? The score literally pops up on the kids' screens instantly...

Umm...you are on this forum. Have you not picked up on the trend? It's mcps. folks are here because something is wrong, information is not clear, no one knows the actual answer. So, to answer your question: it would be too easy for mcps to do what you think (scores appearing right away). If your precious Larlo didn't jot down his score (and didnt make a mistake writing it down), or memorize it, you gotta wait until report comes. Or bug the teacher.

The score reports are delivered 2 weeks after testing ends. The report includes county averages, so they need everyone's scores before they publish any reports. Then some admin has to go push some buttons. Do you want to pay for GAFA engineers to make a super sophisticated instant system?

Chilll out, folks.

Well noted, but riddle me this, Batman:

If middle school criteria-based magnet lotteries utilize these Fall MAP scores from 5th graders as entry gates (albeit locally normed), and

If score reports are delivered 2 weeks after testing ends, and

If that means mid-/late October for the Fall MAPs, and

If some schools scheduled MAP in the first week+ of September, and

If MAP scores largely correlate with exposure to content, and

If a considerable amount of content is taught between early September and early October (e.g., Math 5/6 covering operations with fractions), then

What does that say about the expected relative MAP scores for students fortunate enough to be taking MAP at the end of the testing window, and the resulting likelihood of placement in a magnet lottery pool?

Perhaps those who know the import of the test from schools having administered it early in the window have a more difficult time keeping it cool over the extra month.

(Notes: The MCPS Fall MAP testing window was 9/3-10/4. The Winter window, where 3rd-grade MAP-R scores are similarly used for placement in the CES lottery pool, is 12/16-1/28. MCPS has not employed the weeks-of-instruction adjustment available from NWEA to normalize MAP scores when determining lottery candidacy, and NWEA recommends a maximum 3-week testing window to reduce improper comparison among students.)

Kids who test high enough to qualify for these pools do so because of the exposure to content they receive outside of school, not because they happened to learn how to do long division late in the first quarter of the school year

This is not true. There are those who do not engage in outside tutoring/enrichment, and there are concepts to which students are newly exposed during the first quarter, which notably includes operations with fractions in Math 5/6. From these, there are some who test high enough. There are some who test just at the border of high enough, as well, and that extra content exposure can make the difference as to the side of the border on which they end up.

The only cohort for whom this is true is kids at high FARMS schools who can qualify for the pool with scores in the 70th percentile due to locally normed scores. There’s no way a kid at a low FARMS school where the cutoff can be as high as the low 90s percentile can pass that hurdle just by being very good at the content they’ve been exposed to at school.

You'd be wrong, there. There are kids with mathematically inclined minds who absorb concepts from daily life or are able to deduce concepts, to a degree, when presented with a question, though mathematical vocabulary can be an impediment when comparing to those receiving more formal exposure (e.g., tutoring). They demonstrate that across multiple tests (i.e., not in a one-off manner that would suggest lucky guessing).

And the low FARMS MAP-M cutoff has been higher than national percentiles in the low 90s. The low 90s made public by MCPS was in response to an MPIA request from a couple of years back and they haven't publicized the actual numbers since (those change each year with the actual set of scores achieved among MCPS students). They have acknowledged that the scores in MCPS, particularly in the low-FARMS and moderate-low-FARMS groupings, (and, then, locally normed percentiles) had gone up in following years. Parent comparisons of scores for those making/not making the lottery have suggested mid- to high-90s national percentiles for MAP-M.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes just checked and they’re up…

How do we know how many students in MCPS are within nth percentile? Is there a report that MCPS provides to tax payers?

There’s a different test in the spring that is used for accountability. Not the MAP

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes just checked and they’re up…

How do we know how many students in MCPS are within nth percentile? Is there a report that MCPS provides to tax payers?

Anonymous wrote:Yes just checked and they’re up…

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ours got posted today

Same

Anonymous wrote:Ours got posted today

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some years it is in early Nov.

Why on earth does it take so long? The score literally pops up on the kids' screens instantly...

Umm...you are on this forum. Have you not picked up on the trend? It's mcps. folks are here because something is wrong, information is not clear, no one knows the actual answer. So, to answer your question: it would be too easy for mcps to do what you think (scores appearing right away). If your precious Larlo didn't jot down his score (and didnt make a mistake writing it down), or memorize it, you gotta wait until report comes. Or bug the teacher.

The score reports are delivered 2 weeks after testing ends. The report includes county averages, so they need everyone's scores before they publish any reports. Then some admin has to go push some buttons. Do you want to pay for GAFA engineers to make a super sophisticated instant system?

Chilll out, folks.

Well noted, but riddle me this, Batman:

If middle school criteria-based magnet lotteries utilize these Fall MAP scores from 5th graders as entry gates (albeit locally normed), and

If score reports are delivered 2 weeks after testing ends, and

If that means mid-/late October for the Fall MAPs, and

If some schools scheduled MAP in the first week+ of September, and

If MAP scores largely correlate with exposure to content, and

If a considerable amount of content is taught between early September and early October (e.g., Math 5/6 covering operations with fractions), then

What does that say about the expected relative MAP scores for students fortunate enough to be taking MAP at the end of the testing window, and the resulting likelihood of placement in a magnet lottery pool?

Perhaps those who know the import of the test from schools having administered it early in the window have a more difficult time keeping it cool over the extra month.

(Notes: The MCPS Fall MAP testing window was 9/3-10/4. The Winter window, where 3rd-grade MAP-R scores are similarly used for placement in the CES lottery pool, is 12/16-1/28. MCPS has not employed the weeks-of-instruction adjustment available from NWEA to normalize MAP scores when determining lottery candidacy, and NWEA recommends a maximum 3-week testing window to reduce improper comparison among students.)

Kids who test high enough to qualify for these pools do so because of the exposure to content they receive outside of school, not because they happened to learn how to do long division late in the first quarter of the school year

This is not true. There are those who do not engage in outside tutoring/enrichment, and there are concepts to which students are newly exposed during the first quarter, which notably includes operations with fractions in Math 5/6. From these, there are some who test high enough. There are some who test just at the border of high enough, as well, and that extra content exposure can make the difference as to the side of the border on which they end up.

The only cohort for whom this is true is kids at high FARMS schools who can qualify for the pool with scores in the 70th percentile due to locally normed scores. There’s no way a kid at a low FARMS school where the cutoff can be as high as the low 90s percentile can pass that hurdle just by being very good at the content they’ve been exposed to at school.