Anonymous
08/30/2024 20:32
Subject: Toxic Masculinity
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Of course it is real. There is evidence everywhere.
Besides raising boys to respect females as equal, to have and exy the range of feelings (including fear and tears), to seek consent before touching another else’s body for your own gratification , they need time role models who live this way.
That means dads who also care for children and women who contribute to society outside the home, and contribute to their household financially.
Please explain how the rather misogynist sentiment expressed in bold helps dissuade toxic masculinity.
When children see only a woman not working and doing only domestic duties, it teaches them that is what women do. Versus equality in duties and care equal to their male spouse.
I’m a true believer that sahm contribute to male entitlement.
Even if we accepted your premise in true in 2024, when boys interact with all sorts of men and women outside their home in a professional capacity (e.g. doctors, teachers, retail employees, etc.) , what exactly is the issue with thinking that women perform domestic labor?
You learn how to be a man or woman, how to be a husband or wife, from your family of origin.
Anonymous
08/30/2024 19:49
Subject: Toxic Masculinity
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Of course it is real. There is evidence everywhere.
Besides raising boys to respect females as equal, to have and exy the range of feelings (including fear and tears), to seek consent before touching another else’s body for your own gratification , they need time role models who live this way.
That means dads who also care for children and women who contribute to society outside the home, and contribute to their household financially.
Please explain how the rather misogynist sentiment expressed in bold helps dissuade toxic masculinity.
When children see only a woman not working and doing only domestic duties, it teaches them that is what women do. Versus equality in duties and care equal to their male spouse.
I’m a true believer that sahm contribute to male entitlement.
Even if we accepted your premise in true in 2024, when boys interact with all sorts of men and women outside their home in a professional capacity (e.g. doctors, teachers, retail employees, etc.) , what exactly is the issue with thinking that women perform domestic labor?
Anonymous
08/30/2024 19:46
Subject: Toxic Masculinity
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Of course it is real. There is evidence everywhere.
Besides raising boys to respect females as equal, to have and exy the range of feelings (including fear and tears), to seek consent before touching another else’s body for your own gratification , they need time role models who live this way.
That means dads who also care for children and women who contribute to society outside the home, and contribute to their household financially.
Please explain how the rather misogynist sentiment expressed in bold helps dissuade toxic masculinity.
Because women are less free to leave controlling abusive men, or refuse them sex, if their spouse is their only way to feed their children or keep a roof over their heads.
Are you familiar with history? With how many women around the world are entirely dependent upon men?
We are better off when we are independent , and perceived as capable of independence/ strength.
Choosing to stay home and care for the house and family does not equal being dependent upon men.
Does not dad’s position as a wage earner employee (rather than a business owner) also mean that he is dependent upon (other) men (or sometimes women)?
Like so many, you haven’t thought this through. If you really want to end toxic masculinity, stop considering men to be the default and women to be the other.
Anonymous
08/30/2024 19:40
Subject: Toxic Masculinity
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Of course it is real. There is evidence everywhere.
Besides raising boys to respect females as equal, to have and exy the range of feelings (including fear and tears), to seek consent before touching another else’s body for your own gratification , they need time role models who live this way.
That means dads who also care for children and women who contribute to society outside the home, and contribute to their household financially.
Please explain how the rather misogynist sentiment expressed in bold helps dissuade toxic masculinity.
When children see only a woman not working and doing only domestic duties, it teaches them that is what women do. Versus equality in duties and care equal to their male spouse.
I’m a true believer that sahm contribute to male entitlement.
Anonymous
08/30/2024 19:33
Subject: Toxic Masculinity
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Of course it is real. There is evidence everywhere.
Besides raising boys to respect females as equal, to have and exy the range of feelings (including fear and tears), to seek consent before touching another else’s body for your own gratification , they need time role models who live this way.
That means dads who also care for children and women who contribute to society outside the home, and contribute to their household financially.
Please explain how the rather misogynist sentiment expressed in bold helps dissuade toxic masculinity.
Because women are less free to leave controlling abusive men, or refuse them sex, if their spouse is their only way to feed their children or keep a roof over their heads.
Are you familiar with history? With how many women around the world are entirely dependent upon men?
We are better off when we are independent , and perceived as capable of independence/ strength.
Anonymous
08/30/2024 19:28
Subject: Toxic Masculinity
Anonymous wrote:I am doing better, as someone raising both sexes I refuse to let them buy into social constructs of any type or to let the world convince them that toxicity is somehow gender based.Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Toxic behavior from ANY gender means the inability to control one’s emotions. Overly aggressive behavior like physical or verbal intimidation when the situation does not call for it, being a jerk because you can, entitled behavior regarding sex, attention, money, affection, manipulation of someone’s emotions, violence in the form of hitting, pushing, shoving, throwing things, damaging property etc., crying or threatening to harm oneself to get one’s way.
As you can see I don’t believe in toxic male behavior, I believe in toxic behaviors. Being strong, assertive, aggressive in certain situations like sports/business, not being a pushover, and showing mental toughness are great traits for all genders.
With all due respect, this thread is about toxic masculinity.
Do better.
Who carries out most rapes? Homicides? Sexual harassment? Wars?
Who are more likely to abandon their children? Domestic violence?
The answer is nowhere near 50/50. Around the globe.
Sorry, your line sounds good, but it absolutely does not match objective reality.
Anonymous
08/30/2024 19:27
Subject: Toxic Masculinity
Anonymous wrote:Of course it is real. There is evidence everywhere.
Besides raising boys to respect females as equal, to have and exy the range of feelings (including fear and tears), to seek consent before touching another else’s body for your own gratification , they need time role models who live this way.
That means dads who also care for children and women who contribute to society outside the home, and contribute to their household financially.
Please explain how the rather misogynist sentiment expressed in bold helps dissuade toxic masculinity.
Anonymous
08/30/2024 19:23
Subject: Toxic Masculinity
Of course it is real. There is evidence everywhere.
Besides raising boys to respect females as equal, to have and exy the range of feelings (including fear and tears), to seek consent before touching another else’s body for your own gratification , they need time role models who live this way.
That means dads who also care for children and women who contribute to society outside the home, and contribute to their household financially.
Besides raising boys to respect females as equal, to have and exy the range of feelings (including fear and tears), to seek consent before touching another else’s body for your own gratification , they need time role models who live this way.
That means dads who also care for children and women who contribute to society outside the home, and contribute to their household financially.
Anonymous
08/30/2024 19:03
Subject: Toxic Masculinity
Anonymous wrote:The Op original asked how do you raise your son if you believe in toxic masculinity. I am responding as some raising both genders to see Roxy in society. Did a womam not cast one of the deciding votes to remove women’s reproductive rights? Didn’t women play a real role in helping to elect Trump? My daughter experiencing “mean girl” behavior in middle schools and on social media? So yes I am helping my children become educated on toxic behaviors and what they can do to recognize and curtail it. I don’t buy the narrative that my son is more wired for bad behavior then my daughter.Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I am doing better, as someone raising both sexes I refuse to let them buy into social constructs of any type or to let the world convince them that toxicity is somehow gender based.Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Toxic behavior from ANY gender means the inability to control one’s emotions. Overly aggressive behavior like physical or verbal intimidation when the situation does not call for it, being a jerk because you can, entitled behavior regarding sex, attention, money, affection, manipulation of someone’s emotions, violence in the form of hitting, pushing, shoving, throwing things, damaging property etc., crying or threatening to harm oneself to get one’s way.
As you can see I don’t believe in toxic male behavior, I believe in toxic behaviors. Being strong, assertive, aggressive in certain situations like sports/business, not being a pushover, and showing mental toughness are great traits for all genders.
With all due respect, this thread is about toxic masculinity.
Do better.
No one claimed women have no issues whatsoever linked to their gender. Go start your own thread on toxic femininity, if you actually believe that exists.
This thread is about the very real crisis facing American society:
toxic masculinity.
DP. Spare us your misplaced outrage. Not a single person has even suggested men/boys are "more wired for bad behavior". No one is saying women don't have toxic behaviors or are not complicit in upholding toxic masculinity. This is a thread about toxic masculinity. Feel free to start your own thread.
~Mother of 2 boys/2 girls who grew up in the conservative, rural midwest and has experienced more than enough toxic masculinity and women who perpetuate it.
Anonymous
08/30/2024 18:45
Subject: Toxic Masculinity
I suppose it depends on what is meant by toxic masculinity. The reality is that nearly all violent crime and sexual assault is perpetrated by males. Is toxic masculinity another name for violent crimes? Either way, I am not sure if it is possible to decouple toxic masculinity from positive or heroic masculinity at a societal level in any meaningful way.
The feminine analogy is of course toxic femininity but I think a more appropriate description of this behavior is toxic empathy. Widely practiced primarily by females but also a significant percentage of males. While less violent than toxic masculinity, it is equally as harmful but in a different way.
The feminine analogy is of course toxic femininity but I think a more appropriate description of this behavior is toxic empathy. Widely practiced primarily by females but also a significant percentage of males. While less violent than toxic masculinity, it is equally as harmful but in a different way.
Anonymous
08/30/2024 18:30
Subject: Toxic Masculinity
The Op original asked how do you raise your son if you believe in toxic masculinity. I am responding as some raising both genders to see Roxy in society. Did a womam not cast one of the deciding votes to remove women’s reproductive rights? Didn’t women play a real role in helping to elect Trump? My daughter experiencing “mean girl” behavior in middle schools and on social media? So yes I am helping my children become educated on toxic behaviors and what they can do to recognize and curtail it. I don’t buy the narrative that my son is more wired for bad behavior then my daughter.Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I am doing better, as someone raising both sexes I refuse to let them buy into social constructs of any type or to let the world convince them that toxicity is somehow gender based.Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Toxic behavior from ANY gender means the inability to control one’s emotions. Overly aggressive behavior like physical or verbal intimidation when the situation does not call for it, being a jerk because you can, entitled behavior regarding sex, attention, money, affection, manipulation of someone’s emotions, violence in the form of hitting, pushing, shoving, throwing things, damaging property etc., crying or threatening to harm oneself to get one’s way.
As you can see I don’t believe in toxic male behavior, I believe in toxic behaviors. Being strong, assertive, aggressive in certain situations like sports/business, not being a pushover, and showing mental toughness are great traits for all genders.
With all due respect, this thread is about toxic masculinity.
Do better.
No one claimed women have no issues whatsoever linked to their gender. Go start your own thread on toxic femininity, if you actually believe that exists.
This thread is about the very real crisis facing American society:
toxic masculinity.
Anonymous
08/30/2024 18:01
Subject: Toxic Masculinity
Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thanks everyone for chiming in. A thought that came to mind is, how do raise girls to interrupt toxic masculinity?
Here again: it is the binary itself that is the problem. When a critical mass of people--male, female, and otherwise--can see that expression of one's gender is not an either/or alternative but a full spectrum in which acceptable self-expression can fall at many, changing places throughout life, we'll be onto something.
Until that hoped-for time, I raise my eyebrows at expressions of toxic masculinity and walk away. Yes, this does include at work.
Anonymous
08/30/2024 17:46
Subject: Toxic Masculinity
Anonymous wrote:I am doing better, as someone raising both sexes I refuse to let them buy into social constructs of any type or to let the world convince them that toxicity is somehow gender based.Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Toxic behavior from ANY gender means the inability to control one’s emotions. Overly aggressive behavior like physical or verbal intimidation when the situation does not call for it, being a jerk because you can, entitled behavior regarding sex, attention, money, affection, manipulation of someone’s emotions, violence in the form of hitting, pushing, shoving, throwing things, damaging property etc., crying or threatening to harm oneself to get one’s way.
As you can see I don’t believe in toxic male behavior, I believe in toxic behaviors. Being strong, assertive, aggressive in certain situations like sports/business, not being a pushover, and showing mental toughness are great traits for all genders.
With all due respect, this thread is about toxic masculinity.
Do better.
No one claimed women have no issues whatsoever linked to their gender. Go start your own thread on toxic femininity, if you actually believe that exists.
This thread is about the very real crisis facing American society:
toxic masculinity.
Anonymous
08/30/2024 17:04
Subject: Re:Toxic Masculinity
Anonymous wrote:Before we allow men to become fathers, I feel it’s crucial they participate; really participate in a group like this one:
https://www.gq.com/story/inside-a-group-where-men-confront-their-feelings
Wow, really participate? Like really?
Anonymous
08/30/2024 16:19
Subject: Toxic Masculinity
I am doing better, as someone raising both sexes I refuse to let them buy into social constructs of any type or to let the world convince them that toxicity is somehow gender based.Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Toxic behavior from ANY gender means the inability to control one’s emotions. Overly aggressive behavior like physical or verbal intimidation when the situation does not call for it, being a jerk because you can, entitled behavior regarding sex, attention, money, affection, manipulation of someone’s emotions, violence in the form of hitting, pushing, shoving, throwing things, damaging property etc., crying or threatening to harm oneself to get one’s way.
As you can see I don’t believe in toxic male behavior, I believe in toxic behaviors. Being strong, assertive, aggressive in certain situations like sports/business, not being a pushover, and showing mental toughness are great traits for all genders.
With all due respect, this thread is about toxic masculinity.
Do better.