Anonymous
Post 07/11/2024 18:41     Subject: Undergrad doesn’t matter
Anonymous wrote:Law school admissions are not a good metric by which to determine the value of undergrad degrees from particular universities. LSAT and GPA are all that matters.

By and large, in 2024 if you go to a school that's roughly ranked in the top 100 or so, your opportunities are not going to be limited by the brand name of your school. Sure, Wall Street remains a bit of an anachronism. But generally, every industry is aware that there are very talented students at all state flagships, particularly in honors programs, and that many, many stellar students have chosen "lesser" ranked schools because of the merit they offered.

When undergrad degrees cost $400,000, smart students are making very different choices today compared to 25 years ago. And most industries and Fortune 500 companies recognize that. As long as it's a top 100 school, it's all good. Only IB, and to a somewhat lesser extent consulting, remain fixated on the "traditional" 10 or so prestige schools. But real talent largely goes elsewhere anyway these days.


It matters for top med schools and top law schools. Med schools give more points to the tier 1& 2 schools, thus allowing “average” (3.8) students with the same mcat to get in much easier than the 3.9 from a known weaker undergrad, because they understand the competition pool at the more rigorous uni is a different ball game. Med committees admit the tier system. It matters for some fully-funded humanities phD programs only offered at ivies/t20. By and large the undergrad school is a big leg up for a lot of sectors, not just IB/consulting.
Anonymous
Post 07/11/2024 18:33     Subject: Undergrad doesn’t matter
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:A spinoff of sorts from the chasing merit thread.

https://hls.harvard.edu/jdadmissions/apply-to-harvard-law-school/jdapplicants/hls-profile-and-facts/undergraduate-institutions/

Look at all the schools that are represented in Harvard’s L1 class for 23-24.

You don’t need a highly ranked school to get into an excellent grad program. This isn’t 80% of the class from T50’s. These schools are all over the board in ranking.




You clearly didn't go there or you would know what is wrong with your post. There are only 147 undergrad institutions given there. The entering class of Harvard Law is 560. The remaining 413 come predominantly from only from the Ivies + Stanford with Harvard undergrads making up about 30% of the entire class (in my year). So if you really want to go there you go to Harvard undergrad, then Yale, Stanford, etc. The leftover 147 are the valedictorians or token reps to fill in the rest of the class.


THIS. The data for ALL students not schools reveals that 30+% are from ivy/plus schools (ivies plus S, D, C, Mit) and OVER 60% are from T30unis/T15Lacs.
The same/similar is true for the rest of T14 law and the T25 med schools. Those who want a shot at being in big law/supreme court/top specialists or research/academic medicine need to target these top grad programs, which in turn preferentially pick from the top undergraduate schools. You have to be a singular superstar at the top of your T75-100 university to have a shot at these programs; you just have to be top half from the most elite undergraduate programs.
Undergrad does matter.
Anonymous
Post 07/11/2024 18:19     Subject: Undergrad doesn’t matter
Law school admissions are not a good metric by which to determine the value of undergrad degrees from particular universities. LSAT and GPA are all that matters.

By and large, in 2024 if you go to a school that's roughly ranked in the top 100 or so, your opportunities are not going to be limited by the brand name of your school. Sure, Wall Street remains a bit of an anachronism. But generally, every industry is aware that there are very talented students at all state flagships, particularly in honors programs, and that many, many stellar students have chosen "lesser" ranked schools because of the merit they offered.

When undergrad degrees cost $400,000, smart students are making very different choices today compared to 25 years ago. And most industries and Fortune 500 companies recognize that. As long as it's a top 100 school, it's all good. Only IB, and to a somewhat lesser extent consulting, remain fixated on the "traditional" 10 or so prestige schools. But real talent largely goes elsewhere anyway these days.
Anonymous
Post 07/11/2024 18:00     Subject: Undergrad doesn’t matter
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:A spinoff of sorts from the chasing merit thread.

https://hls.harvard.edu/jdadmissions/apply-to-harvard-law-school/jdapplicants/hls-profile-and-facts/undergraduate-institutions/

Look at all the schools that are represented in Harvard’s L1 class for 23-24.

You don’t need a highly ranked school to get into an excellent grad program. This isn’t 80% of the class from T50’s. These schools are all over the board in ranking.





Uh it’s 147 schools for a class of 500+.


Uh we don’t know how many kids came from each school



In my experience it was one. And the current stats show that to be true. HLS publishes its class GPA spread: 25th percentile: 3.84/4.0. 50th percentile: 3.93/4.0. 75th percentile: 3.99/4.0.Jan 2, 2024.

In order to get that 3.99 HLS IS taking the valedictorian of the 147 SLACs.
Anonymous
Post 07/11/2024 17:41     Subject: Undergrad doesn’t matter
[quote=Anonymous][quote=Wrong]A spinoff of sorts from the chasing merit thread.

https://hls.harvard.edu/jdadmissions/apply-to-harvard-law-school/jdapplicants/hls-profile-and-facts/undergraduate-institutions/

Look at all the schools that are represented in Harvard’s L1 class for 23-24.

You don’t need a highly ranked school to get into an excellent grad program. This isn’t 80% of the class from T50’s. These schools are all over the board in ranking.


[/quote]

Disagree because for many a solid undergrad is all you need for highly lucrative and enjoyable careers. Lots of MIT grads don’t need a master’s or PhD, lots of Wharton grads don’t need a MBA. [/quote]
I don't think you disagreed with the other person, though.

Most graduates in any undergrad don't need another degree. If you major in accounting at UVA, you are fine. It honestly might be easier to pivot through a career with a Science or Math degree than to waste a ton of money on non-PHD grad schools, same with the humanities.
Anonymous
Post 07/11/2024 17:41     Subject: Undergrad doesn’t matter
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Point taken about the class size. But the point still stands (from the misconception on the other thread) that almost all of the class is not from top schools.

Are you saying that a student is just as likely to get into HLS from a non-top school as someone who attends a top school, all else being equal?
They are wrong. See above. The Harvard entering class is 560. Only 147 come from the SLACs listed. The rest all come from Harvard (a huge percentage of the class), Yale, Princeton, Stanford, then the lesser Ivies. Yes, Harvard likes to sweep up the valedictorian at many small colleges but most of those kids check off another box - like me - I was first gen and had other odd skills that Harvard Law could brag about to its alumni when it sends out its letter every year saying 147 schools! 4 Rhodes Scholars! 8 pancake turners! 13 eagle scouts! 12 Marshalls, 87 foreign languages!, and so on. Skin color is paramount. a 180 LSAT helps (believe it or not the 75th percentile at HLS has a 179 LSAT and a 3.99 GPA - that's off the top of my head so might be slightly off - but still very impressive, I guess).

Harvard posts this list every year just so some poor dupes at a slac somewhere think they have a chance. It's very unfair. 30% of my class was from Harvard undergrad so that's 168 students. Note you won't find this information on the HLS website anywhere.
Yeah, maybe because it's all wrong/lies. At least it would have been wildly inaccurate when I was there. Harvard ("the college") was the biggest HLS feeder, but at well less than 10% of the class--and they regularly were mocked as the dumb ones.
Anonymous
Post 07/11/2024 17:33     Subject: Undergrad doesn’t matter
[quote=Anonymous]A spinoff of sorts from the chasing merit thread.

https://hls.harvard.edu/jdadmissions/apply-to-harvard-law-school/jdapplicants/hls-profile-and-facts/undergraduate-institutions/

Look at all the schools that are represented in Harvard’s L1 class for 23-24.

You don’t need a highly ranked school to get into an excellent grad program. This isn’t 80% of the class from T50’s. These schools are all over the board in ranking.


[/quote]

Disagree because for many a solid undergrad is all you need for highly lucrative and enjoyable careers. Lots of MIT grads don’t need a master’s or PhD, lots of Wharton grads don’t need a MBA.
Anonymous
Post 07/11/2024 17:26     Subject: Undergrad doesn’t matter
Anonymous wrote:Uh we don’t know how many kids came from each school

You would have us believe that there's no correlation between the number of students from a school and its undergraduate ranking?
Anonymous
Post 07/11/2024 17:15     Subject: Undergrad doesn’t matter
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:A spinoff of sorts from the chasing merit thread.

https://hls.harvard.edu/jdadmissions/apply-to-harvard-law-school/jdapplicants/hls-profile-and-facts/undergraduate-institutions/

Look at all the schools that are represented in Harvard’s L1 class for 23-24.

You don’t need a highly ranked school to get into an excellent grad program. This isn’t 80% of the class from T50’s. These schools are all over the board in ranking.





Uh it’s 147 schools for a class of 500+.


Uh we don’t know how many kids came from each school
Anonymous
Post 07/11/2024 16:52     Subject: Undergrad doesn’t matter
Agreed. It's the grad school, PhD, med school, law school or business school that matters. Or job experience after college.

I went to a top 5 ivy law school and was pleasantly surprised at the mix of undergrads represented.
Anonymous
Post 07/11/2024 16:40     Subject: Undergrad doesn’t matter
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:A spinoff of sorts from the chasing merit thread.

https://hls.harvard.edu/jdadmissions/apply-to-harvard-law-school/jdapplicants/hls-profile-and-facts/undergraduate-institutions/

Look at all the schools that are represented in Harvard’s L1 class for 23-24.

You don’t need a highly ranked school to get into an excellent grad program. This isn’t 80% of the class from T50’s. These schools are all over the board in ranking.




You clearly didn't go there or you would know what is wrong with your post. There are only 147 undergrad institutions given there. The entering class of Harvard Law is 560. The remaining 413 come predominantly from only from the Ivies + Stanford with Harvard undergrads making up about 30% of the entire class (in my year). So if you really want to go there you go to Harvard undergrad, then Yale, Stanford, etc. The leftover 147 are the valedictorians or token reps to fill in the rest of the class.


Point taken about the class size. But the point still stands (from the misconception on the other thread) that almost all of the class is not from top schools.

And this 147 you speak of - you know it’s only 1 person from each of these schools?

Yea that guys wrong. I remember a few years ago on here that some poster pointed out that Emory had 11 students in one Harvard law class, more than Duke.


This is why I hate these boards. One poster says “most, if not all of top ranked law schools students come from ivys/highly ranked undergrad schools” and people think that’s true. It’s not even close to true. Then some guy comes on and says “someone came from a lower ranked school in 1928 but no one is doing it now” like it’s fact.

Never change DCUM.
Anonymous
Post 07/11/2024 16:28     Subject: Undergrad doesn’t matter
Anonymous wrote:A spinoff of sorts from the chasing merit thread.

https://hls.harvard.edu/jdadmissions/apply-to-harvard-law-school/jdapplicants/hls-profile-and-facts/undergraduate-institutions/

Look at all the schools that are represented in Harvard’s L1 class for 23-24.

You don’t need a highly ranked school to get into an excellent grad program. This isn’t 80% of the class from T50’s. These schools are all over the board in ranking.





Uh it’s 147 schools for a class of 500+.
Anonymous
Post 07/11/2024 15:54     Subject: Undergrad doesn’t matter
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:A spinoff of sorts from the chasing merit thread.

https://hls.harvard.edu/jdadmissions/apply-to-harvard-law-school/jdapplicants/hls-profile-and-facts/undergraduate-institutions/

Look at all the schools that are represented in Harvard’s L1 class for 23-24.

You don’t need a highly ranked school to get into an excellent grad program. This isn’t 80% of the class from T50’s. These schools are all over the board in ranking.




You clearly didn't go there or you would know what is wrong with your post. There are only 147 undergrad institutions given there. The entering class of Harvard Law is 560. The remaining 413 come predominantly from only from the Ivies + Stanford with Harvard undergrads making up about 30% of the entire class (in my year). So if you really want to go there you go to Harvard undergrad, then Yale, Stanford, etc. The leftover 147 are the valedictorians or token reps to fill in the rest of the class.


Point taken about the class size. But the point still stands (from the misconception on the other thread) that almost all of the class is not from top schools.

And this 147 you speak of - you know it’s only 1 person from each of these schools?

Yea that guys wrong. I remember a few years ago on here that some poster pointed out that Emory had 11 students in one Harvard law class, more than Duke.
Anonymous
Post 07/11/2024 15:42     Subject: Undergrad doesn’t matter
Anonymous wrote:OP doesn't understand stats AT ALL. Goodness. You have NO idea how many kids from these colleges applied to HLS, what percentage of those were admitted, or their stats. In the past HLS and Yale used to post how many kids in each entering class came from which college. An astronomical percentage were "home grown," i.e., Harvard College to HLS. Also, 5 kids going to HLS from Williams (2000 undergrads) is statistically a really different story than 5 kids going to HLS from FSU (32,000 undergrads).
So, upshot, undergrad usually matters when you're talking about elite graduate institutions. There are exceptions, of course, as this is not an ironclad situation, but don't kid yourself.


Well, not only that - they didn't factor in the fact that HLS deliberates posts this list every year in some feigned attempt to show how inclusive it is - "wow! look at the 147 schools we take from!" but not acknowledging every incoming class is 560 so the remaining 420 odd students ALWAYS come primarily from Harvard Undergrad (good luck finding that figure, HLS delibately hides it), Yale, Princeton, Stanford, Cornell, etc. Go and try to find the stats as to exactly how many Harvard undergrads are at Harvard law. You can't. I can because I have the HLS facebook.
Anonymous
Post 07/11/2024 15:39     Subject: Undergrad doesn’t matter
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:A spinoff of sorts from the chasing merit thread.

https://hls.harvard.edu/jdadmissions/apply-to-harvard-law-school/jdapplicants/hls-profile-and-facts/undergraduate-institutions/

Look at all the schools that are represented in Harvard’s L1 class for 23-24.

You don’t need a highly ranked school to get into an excellent grad program. This isn’t 80% of the class from T50’s. These schools are all over the board in ranking.




You clearly didn't go there or you would know what is wrong with your post. There are only 147 undergrad institutions given there. The entering class of Harvard Law is 560. The remaining 413 come predominantly from only from the Ivies + Stanford with Harvard undergrads making up about 30% of the entire class (in my year). So if you really want to go there you go to Harvard undergrad, then Yale, Stanford, etc. The leftover 147 are the valedictorians or token reps to fill in the rest of the class.


Point taken about the class size. But the point still stands (from the misconception on the other thread) that almost all of the class is not from top schools.

And this 147 you speak of - you know it’s only 1 person from each of these schools?



Yes, I was one of them. Like you, from an unimpressive SLAC, but no 1 in my class, Rhodes, 4.0, high LSAT, etc.


So wait - your rational is because you are the only one that came from your specific school, this must be the case for every other school on the list? You can’t be serious.




That was certainly the case when I attended HLS. 560 in a class. Most from Harvard and Ivy and Stanford undergrad. And yes 140 or so valedictorians from SLACs. I was certainly the only one from mine. My SLAC sent someone to HLS only once every ten years or so. Maybe 15.