Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, DCUM can’t see the point you are making because you said you were a Christian and then they all went blind with rage.

I think you’re right about that. Apparently’ they think freedom of religion applies to everyone except Christians.

Freedom of religion also means that I am free from the influence of YOUR religion as well. Jewish law states that life does not begin at conception, it begins at birth. Why should Christianity overrule Judaism?

Again, Christians can have freedom of religion- they don't have to get abortions. Your religion does NOT get to dictate what others do.

Yep, and that’s exact why the fourth sentence of my original post says that I am not asking anyone to agree with me. That is why I have repeatedly said that I think abortion should be legal for all because we all have such varying views.

The messaging is that we need to return to protections of roe that were in place for 50 years. In order to begin to do that, trump must not get another shot at the presidency and at women's reproductive rights. That messaging is spot on.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, DCUM can’t see the point you are making because you said you were a Christian and then they all went blind with rage.

I think you’re right about that. Apparently’ they think freedom of religion applies to everyone except Christians.

Freedom of religion also means that I am free from the influence of YOUR religion as well. Jewish law states that life does not begin at conception, it begins at birth. Why should Christianity overrule Judaism?

Again, Christians can have freedom of religion- they don't have to get abortions. Your religion does NOT get to dictate what others do.

Yep, and that’s exact why the fourth sentence of my original post says that I am not asking anyone to agree with me. That is why I have repeatedly said that I think abortion should be legal for all because we all have such varying views.

yes, for the record, that message was not for you, it was for the person who I quoted.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Give up OP. Your fellow Democrats only see red in this user and cannot think logically or emphatically. You have people out there messaging how proud they are of their abortions. It is one thing for abortion to be legal. Quite another to be proud. The messaging is so far gone it is an echo chamber. They are not at all trying to find a middle ground/consensus.

The middle ground was Roe. Happy to go back to that. But Republican evangelical warriors are too extreme to agree to it.

Op here. I agree. And Obama was extremely effective at reducing abortion rate without infringing on our rights.

Obama was the one who say the “and rare” portion of the “safe legal and rare” abortion messaging expunged. Maybe he should have found some middle ground.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, DCUM can’t see the point you are making because you said you were a Christian and then they all went blind with rage.

I think you’re right about that. Apparently’ they think freedom of religion applies to everyone except Christians.

Freedom of religion also means that I am free from the influence of YOUR religion as well. Jewish law states that life does not begin at conception, it begins at birth. Why should Christianity overrule Judaism?

Again, Christians can have freedom of religion- they don't have to get abortions. Your religion does NOT get to dictate what others do.

Yep, and that’s exact why the fourth sentence of my original post says that I am not asking anyone to agree with me. That is why I have repeatedly said that I think abortion should be legal for all because we all have such varying views.

Here's the thing with abortion as a "lifestyle choice". Things happen.

Birth control fails.

Sometimes the circumstances after we get pregnant change and it is no longer a good option to have a baby, ie: the father leaves, job loss, etc.

Also, we are humans, mistakes happen, and there are some women who just do not have the capacity to raise a child.

Either way, as a Christian, the Bible tells us, "Judge not, that ye be not judged."

Abortion laws should not be determined based on who should have one and who shouldn't. It makes every women go through some sort of test as to whether or not she should be allowed to have an abortion. This is already a devastating situation for women to walk into an abortion clinic or hospital, and to have that extra layer of trauma is just cruel. Just let women live their lives.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I honestly wish the democrats would stop talking about abortion. Anyone who is open to understanding how disastrous the GOP is for women’s rights, health, and safety has already turned.

It would be difficult for you to be more wrong about this. The Democrats didn’t talk about abortion enough in the previous decades and that’s what led us to where we are now. And public opinion has been turning and continues to turn against the right wing’s total bans, which produce terrible health outcomes for women with problematic pregnancies and is already resulting in a shortage of doctors of all specialties in those states.

Also, anyone who thinks they have a hot take on abortion here, have you read the Roe v Wade overturned thread? Because I guarantee your great wisdom has been discussed there.

+1

OP blaming the Democrats for the lies of the Republicans is big “what was she wearing” energy.

Op here. I am not blaming the democrats. This post was actually prompted by another post asking what democrats should do differently in their campaign. This is just what I wish they would do to improve messaging - speak to those of us who don’t see abortion as a black and white issue - like I said, untapped demographic.

No, you’re not an “untapped demographic.” Do you trust women? Do you think they deserve the basic human right of bodily autonomy? Then you should vote pro choice and do with your own body as your conscience dictates. That’s your answer. You took a thousand words to scold the Democrats for your inability to feel okay with letting women run their own lives.

This is the fundamental disconnect you will never understand because you don't make an effort to. Antiabortionists have the sincerely held belief that abortion is about TWO people, not just the woman involved. You can say that this is just the patriarch wanting to keep women pregnant in the kitchen, but all that tells me is that you don't know any antiabortionisrs and have never engaged with them, because that's not how they think.

Antiabortionists do not see the humanity in a pregnant person who does not want to spend 9 months gestating a zygote into being or to continue carrying a fetus that is going to die upon birth or kill its mother before then. Every pregnancy has the potential to kill or maim or permanently alter the person who carries it and therefore this must be the main factor in deciding the legality of abortion.

I have a sincerely held belief that a soul enters the body close to birth and so the growing fetus is a shell and not yet a person. Who are you to tell me that I am wrong? Nature kills off more than half of conceptions before they become fully formed into babies. You can never convince me god has endowed all those zygotes and fetuses with souls only to kill them off. My sincerely held belief has as much weight as yours when it comes to making a decision to donate my body to a potentially deadly process to turn a conceptions into a person fully endowed with god given rights. I get to make that decision, not you or your pastor.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The middle on abortion is so offensive to women. It implies that a bunch of old men who legislate things have to protect women from just getting abortions willy-nilly, because they want to fit back into their bikinis or they want their wine time and change their mind on pregnancy.

Unplanned pregnancies happen, birth control fails, partner, sabotage birth control, rape happens, the whole deal. So there needs to be legal access to abortion. When you Start talking about the middle it starts to get into that some abortions are criminal and that’s when we start getting into the land of miscarrying becomes a crime.

For women later in the pregnancies… the middle Implies that women are changing their mind willy-nilly, and not seeking an abortion because their life their future fertility is in danger or their babies Life is in danger.

Why can’t we women and medical professionals make these decisions?!?! You think you’re being rational but you sound insane and misogynistic.

Op here. Forgive me if I was unclear. I ABSOLUTELY think women should make this decision along with their support network, if they choose. That’s why I am in the legal, safe, and rare camp.

Legal - women and doctors should not need to worry about being arrested for abortion or suspected abortion.

Safe - goes along with legal. Since women are trusted to make this choice, back-alley abortions become unnecessary.

Rare - The need for abortion is minimized through many avenues - access to BC, education, counseling, promote adaption

My issue is with the messaging. I wish democrats would acknowledge that many Americans think abortion should be legal, but it is not always in line with our personal values. So it is off-putting when they oversimplify and imply that I am against women’s rights if I do not believe women should get abortions as a lifestyle choice. I am not asking for legislation to reflect my views. That would be a slippery slope. I am asking to be considered in the messaging.

You do not get be the judge and jury about which abortions are ok with you and with are not ok with you. That is between the patient and her doc and her God. Stay out of it.

Op here. Yep, that is exactly what I said…over and over again. Yet your tone seems argumentative. So I’m confused.

You started in with your lifestyle abortions, not me. I would never say such a thing. You sound like you are sticking your judgy self where you don't belong. Focus on your own life and uterus and stay away from the rest of us.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Give up OP. Your fellow Democrats only see red in this user and cannot think logically or emphatically. You have people out there messaging how proud they are of their abortions. It is one thing for abortion to be legal. Quite another to be proud. The messaging is so far gone it is an echo chamber. They are not at all trying to find a middle ground/consensus.

The middle ground was Roe. Happy to go back to that. But Republican evangelical warriors are too extreme to agree to it.

Op here. I agree. And Obama was extremely effective at reducing abortion rate without infringing on our rights.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The middle on abortion is so offensive to women. It implies that a bunch of old men who legislate things have to protect women from just getting abortions willy-nilly, because they want to fit back into their bikinis or they want their wine time and change their mind on pregnancy.

Unplanned pregnancies happen, birth control fails, partner, sabotage birth control, rape happens, the whole deal. So there needs to be legal access to abortion. When you Start talking about the middle it starts to get into that some abortions are criminal and that’s when we start getting into the land of miscarrying becomes a crime.

For women later in the pregnancies… the middle Implies that women are changing their mind willy-nilly, and not seeking an abortion because their life their future fertility is in danger or their babies Life is in danger.

Why can’t we women and medical professionals make these decisions?!?! You think you’re being rational but you sound insane and misogynistic.

Op here. Forgive me if I was unclear. I ABSOLUTELY think women should make this decision along with their support network, if they choose. That’s why I am in the legal, safe, and rare camp.

Legal - women and doctors should not need to worry about being arrested for abortion or suspected abortion.

Safe - goes along with legal. Since women are trusted to make this choice, back-alley abortions become unnecessary.

Rare - The need for abortion is minimized through many avenues - access to BC, education, counseling, promote adaption

My issue is with the messaging. I wish democrats would acknowledge that many Americans think abortion should be legal, but it is not always in line with our personal values. So it is off-putting when they oversimplify and imply that I am against women’s rights if I do not believe women should get abortions as a lifestyle choice. I am not asking for legislation to reflect my views. That would be a slippery slope. I am asking to be considered in the messaging.

You do not get be the judge and jury about which abortions are ok with you and with are not ok with you. That is between the patient and her doc and her God. Stay out of it.

Actually we the people do get to decide. If you don’t like it, work on it from the grassroots in your own state.

Not really. Banning abortion does not stop abortion. Just makes it illegal. It is not really possible to force women to give birth. Not your place and not the people's place.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The middle on abortion is so offensive to women. It implies that a bunch of old men who legislate things have to protect women from just getting abortions willy-nilly, because they want to fit back into their bikinis or they want their wine time and change their mind on pregnancy.

Unplanned pregnancies happen, birth control fails, partner, sabotage birth control, rape happens, the whole deal. So there needs to be legal access to abortion. When you Start talking about the middle it starts to get into that some abortions are criminal and that’s when we start getting into the land of miscarrying becomes a crime.

For women later in the pregnancies… the middle Implies that women are changing their mind willy-nilly, and not seeking an abortion because their life their future fertility is in danger or their babies Life is in danger.

Why can’t we women and medical professionals make these decisions?!?! You think you’re being rational but you sound insane and misogynistic.

Op here. Forgive me if I was unclear. I ABSOLUTELY think women should make this decision along with their support network, if they choose. That’s why I am in the legal, safe, and rare camp.

Legal - women and doctors should not need to worry about being arrested for abortion or suspected abortion.

Safe - goes along with legal. Since women are trusted to make this choice, back-alley abortions become unnecessary.

Rare - The need for abortion is minimized through many avenues - access to BC, education, counseling, promote adaption

My issue is with the messaging. I wish democrats would acknowledge that many Americans think abortion should be legal, but it is not always in line with our personal values. So it is off-putting when they oversimplify and imply that I am against women’s rights if I do not believe women should get abortions as a lifestyle choice. I am not asking for legislation to reflect my views. That would be a slippery slope. I am asking to be considered in the messaging.

You do not get be the judge and jury about which abortions are ok with you and with are not ok with you. That is between the patient and her doc and her God. Stay out of it.

Op here. Yep, that is exactly what I said…over and over again. Yet your tone seems argumentative. So I’m confused.

Anonymous wrote:Give up OP. Your fellow Democrats only see red in this user and cannot think logically or emphatically. You have people out there messaging how proud they are of their abortions. It is one thing for abortion to be legal. Quite another to be proud. The messaging is so far gone it is an echo chamber. They are not at all trying to find a middle ground/consensus.

The middle ground was Roe. Happy to go back to that. But Republican evangelical warriors are too extreme to agree to it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, DCUM can’t see the point you are making because you said you were a Christian and then they all went blind with rage.

I think you’re right about that. Apparently’ they think freedom of religion applies to everyone except Christians.

Freedom of religion also means that I am free from the influence of YOUR religion as well. Jewish law states that life does not begin at conception, it begins at birth. Why should Christianity overrule Judaism?

Again, Christians can have freedom of religion- they don't have to get abortions. Your religion does NOT get to dictate what others do.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The middle on abortion is so offensive to women. It implies that a bunch of old men who legislate things have to protect women from just getting abortions willy-nilly, because they want to fit back into their bikinis or they want their wine time and change their mind on pregnancy.

Unplanned pregnancies happen, birth control fails, partner, sabotage birth control, rape happens, the whole deal. So there needs to be legal access to abortion. When you Start talking about the middle it starts to get into that some abortions are criminal and that’s when we start getting into the land of miscarrying becomes a crime.

For women later in the pregnancies… the middle Implies that women are changing their mind willy-nilly, and not seeking an abortion because their life their future fertility is in danger or their babies Life is in danger.

Why can’t we women and medical professionals make these decisions?!?! You think you’re being rational but you sound insane and misogynistic.

Op here. Forgive me if I was unclear. I ABSOLUTELY think women should make this decision along with their support network, if they choose. That’s why I am in the legal, safe, and rare camp.

Legal - women and doctors should not need to worry about being arrested for abortion or suspected abortion.

Safe - goes along with legal. Since women are trusted to make this choice, back-alley abortions become unnecessary.

Rare - The need for abortion is minimized through many avenues - access to BC, education, counseling, promote adaption

My issue is with the messaging. I wish democrats would acknowledge that many Americans think abortion should be legal, but it is not always in line with our personal values. So it is off-putting when they oversimplify and imply that I am against women’s rights if I do not believe women should get abortions as a lifestyle choice. I am not asking for legislation to reflect my views. That would be a slippery slope. I am asking to be considered in the messaging.

You do not get be the judge and jury about which abortions are ok with you and with are not ok with you. That is between the patient and her doc and her God. Stay out of it.

Actually we the people do get to decide. If you don’t like it, work on it from the grassroots in your own state.

Anonymous wrote:No, you don’t get to separate “lifestyle choice” from the rest of it.

Yeah that’s completely unworkable.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The middle on abortion is so offensive to women. It implies that a bunch of old men who legislate things have to protect women from just getting abortions willy-nilly, because they want to fit back into their bikinis or they want their wine time and change their mind on pregnancy.

Unplanned pregnancies happen, birth control fails, partner, sabotage birth control, rape happens, the whole deal. So there needs to be legal access to abortion. When you Start talking about the middle it starts to get into that some abortions are criminal and that’s when we start getting into the land of miscarrying becomes a crime.

For women later in the pregnancies… the middle Implies that women are changing their mind willy-nilly, and not seeking an abortion because their life their future fertility is in danger or their babies Life is in danger.

Why can’t we women and medical professionals make these decisions?!?! You think you’re being rational but you sound insane and misogynistic.

Op here. Forgive me if I was unclear. I ABSOLUTELY think women should make this decision along with their support network, if they choose. That’s why I am in the legal, safe, and rare camp.

Legal - women and doctors should not need to worry about being arrested for abortion or suspected abortion.

Safe - goes along with legal. Since women are trusted to make this choice, back-alley abortions become unnecessary.

Rare - The need for abortion is minimized through many avenues - access to BC, education, counseling, promote adaption

My issue is with the messaging. I wish democrats would acknowledge that many Americans think abortion should be legal, but it is not always in line with our personal values. So it is off-putting when they oversimplify and imply that I am against women’s rights if I do not believe women should get abortions as a lifestyle choice. I am not asking for legislation to reflect my views. That would be a slippery slope. I am asking to be considered in the messaging.

You do not get be the judge and jury about which abortions are ok with you and with are not ok with you. That is between the patient and her doc and her God. Stay out of it.