Anonymous
07/01/2024 15:56
Subject: Huge ECNL News coming 7/1/2024
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:What does this mean for the clubs…just regular travel teams? Would they also make the switch?
This is a really good question.
Does different rec leagues now need to switch over?
What about EA or GA or NAL or DPL?
Most rec programs never made the switch so no changes for them. This alignment is much better for a college track program IMO and avoids the jumbling of age groups at the very back end when you hit u19. Most ECNL teams mostly do their closed showcases and in the off chance they do something outside of that they would just play up an age group. I welcome the change and the fact that it creates chaos for the other leagues isn't a problem ECNL cares to solve. They have just as much pull as the MLS/GA side for youth soccer so this is them flexing. MLS is pro tracked and they could care less about college bound kids. They just want to sell 1-2 players a year.
Anonymous
07/01/2024 15:33
Subject: Huge ECNL News coming 7/1/2024
Anonymous wrote:What does this mean for the clubs…just regular travel teams? Would they also make the switch?
This is a really good question.
Does different rec leagues now need to switch over?
What about EA or GA or NAL or DPL?
Anonymous
07/01/2024 15:08
Subject: Huge ECNL News coming 7/1/2024
What does this mean for the clubs…just regular travel teams? Would they also make the switch?
Anonymous
07/01/2024 14:44
Subject: Huge ECNL News coming 7/1/2024
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:If US Soccer goes back to school year, then there will be no “trapped player”. I see people mixing in ideas of bio-banding and playing up, but that’s all noise. The term “trapped player” is specific to kids who are born in (September?) Oct, Nov, December and therefore are in a different school class than the kids born Jan-September.
That’s it, nothing fancy or strange. Sure, there will be edge cases of kids who are held back or moved forward in school, but for the vast majority, the move would re-align them for the purposes of college recruiting.
Frankly, if I had a trapped player I would want this. It really sucks for the kids who are sophomores in HS during that crucial year when all of their teammates are all-in on recruiting. Most significant is just the sheer number of coaches that show up. If you are U17, you might have 60-120 College coaches show up at your ECNL showcase or Jeff Cup game. When you are U18/19, it’s 35 coaches, and half of them are only showing up to make sure the kids they already signed aren’t slacking off.
Won't there still be players whose soccer year and club year are misaligned? If the soccer year starts 8/1 but the school cut off is 10/1, the August-September kids are playing a year "down" compared to their school year, right? Is the answer just that there are fewer of them or they are somehow not "trapped"?
“Trapper” players are so rarely on a top team or a top player it is stupid to move everything for these few players. The vast majority of good players(75%j have birthdays Jan - June. Why upset everything for so little benefit.
My kids a "trapped" player and starts on a top 50 ranked team for the age group she plays in.
Not sure where you got the data on trapped players not being good.
I think, or hope, its sarcastic... There are so few players from the later quartiles because of 1. birth date bias but 2. because the late quartile kids are cut off from their classmates. My kid, a late Nov birth, has never played on a team with his best friend and classmate because he's a June birth. He's played with bigger, more mature kids that he rarely is friends with.
Anonymous
07/01/2024 14:38
Subject: Huge ECNL News coming 7/1/2024
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:If US Soccer goes back to school year, then there will be no “trapped player”. I see people mixing in ideas of bio-banding and playing up, but that’s all noise. The term “trapped player” is specific to kids who are born in (September?) Oct, Nov, December and therefore are in a different school class than the kids born Jan-September.
That’s it, nothing fancy or strange. Sure, there will be edge cases of kids who are held back or moved forward in school, but for the vast majority, the move would re-align them for the purposes of college recruiting.
Frankly, if I had a trapped player I would want this. It really sucks for the kids who are sophomores in HS during that crucial year when all of their teammates are all-in on recruiting. Most significant is just the sheer number of coaches that show up. If you are U17, you might have 60-120 College coaches show up at your ECNL showcase or Jeff Cup game. When you are U18/19, it’s 35 coaches, and half of them are only showing up to make sure the kids they already signed aren’t slacking off.
Won't there still be players whose soccer year and club year are misaligned? If the soccer year starts 8/1 but the school cut off is 10/1, the August-September kids are playing a year "down" compared to their school year, right? Is the answer just that there are fewer of them or they are somehow not "trapped"?
“Trapper” players are so rarely on a top team or a top player it is stupid to move everything for these few players. The vast majority of good players(75%j have birthdays Jan - June. Why upset everything for so little benefit.
My kids a "trapped" player and starts on a top 50 ranked team for the age group she plays in.
Not sure where you got the data on trapped players not being good.
Anonymous
07/01/2024 14:27
Subject: Huge ECNL News coming 7/1/2024
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:If US Soccer goes back to school year, then there will be no “trapped player”. I see people mixing in ideas of bio-banding and playing up, but that’s all noise. The term “trapped player” is specific to kids who are born in (September?) Oct, Nov, December and therefore are in a different school class than the kids born Jan-September.
That’s it, nothing fancy or strange. Sure, there will be edge cases of kids who are held back or moved forward in school, but for the vast majority, the move would re-align them for the purposes of college recruiting.
Frankly, if I had a trapped player I would want this. It really sucks for the kids who are sophomores in HS during that crucial year when all of their teammates are all-in on recruiting. Most significant is just the sheer number of coaches that show up. If you are U17, you might have 60-120 College coaches show up at your ECNL showcase or Jeff Cup game. When you are U18/19, it’s 35 coaches, and half of them are only showing up to make sure the kids they already signed aren’t slacking off.
Won't there still be players whose soccer year and club year are misaligned? If the soccer year starts 8/1 but the school cut off is 10/1, the August-September kids are playing a year "down" compared to their school year, right? Is the answer just that there are fewer of them or they are somehow not "trapped"?
“Trapper” players are so rarely on a top team or a top player it is stupid to move everything for these few players. The vast majority of good players(75%j have birthdays Jan - June. Why upset everything for so little benefit.
This is so true. And the issue is mainly an issue with playing competitively AND with your friends in HS (the 8th grade trap).
Best teams won’t allow you to play HS too. It’s 6th team parents with just another issue to Karen about to the coaches and administrators from the litany of reasons why Johnny is special and nobody else seems to recognize it.
Anonymous
07/01/2024 14:21
Subject: Huge ECNL News coming 7/1/2024
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:If US Soccer goes back to school year, then there will be no “trapped player”. I see people mixing in ideas of bio-banding and playing up, but that’s all noise. The term “trapped player” is specific to kids who are born in (September?) Oct, Nov, December and therefore are in a different school class than the kids born Jan-September.
That’s it, nothing fancy or strange. Sure, there will be edge cases of kids who are held back or moved forward in school, but for the vast majority, the move would re-align them for the purposes of college recruiting.
Frankly, if I had a trapped player I would want this. It really sucks for the kids who are sophomores in HS during that crucial year when all of their teammates are all-in on recruiting. Most significant is just the sheer number of coaches that show up. If you are U17, you might have 60-120 College coaches show up at your ECNL showcase or Jeff Cup game. When you are U18/19, it’s 35 coaches, and half of them are only showing up to make sure the kids they already signed aren’t slacking off.
Won't there still be players whose soccer year and club year are misaligned? If the soccer year starts 8/1 but the school cut off is 10/1, the August-September kids are playing a year "down" compared to their school year, right? Is the answer just that there are fewer of them or they are somehow not "trapped"?
“Trapper” players are so rarely on a top team or a top player it is stupid to move everything for these few players. The vast majority of good players(75%j have birthdays Jan - June. Why upset everything for so little benefit.
Haha - excellent post
Anonymous
07/01/2024 14:17
Subject: Huge ECNL News coming 7/1/2024
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:If US Soccer goes back to school year, then there will be no “trapped player”. I see people mixing in ideas of bio-banding and playing up, but that’s all noise. The term “trapped player” is specific to kids who are born in (September?) Oct, Nov, December and therefore are in a different school class than the kids born Jan-September.
That’s it, nothing fancy or strange. Sure, there will be edge cases of kids who are held back or moved forward in school, but for the vast majority, the move would re-align them for the purposes of college recruiting.
Frankly, if I had a trapped player I would want this. It really sucks for the kids who are sophomores in HS during that crucial year when all of their teammates are all-in on recruiting. Most significant is just the sheer number of coaches that show up. If you are U17, you might have 60-120 College coaches show up at your ECNL showcase or Jeff Cup game. When you are U18/19, it’s 35 coaches, and half of them are only showing up to make sure the kids they already signed aren’t slacking off.
Won't there still be players whose soccer year and club year are misaligned? If the soccer year starts 8/1 but the school cut off is 10/1, the August-September kids are playing a year "down" compared to their school year, right? Is the answer just that there are fewer of them or they are somehow not "trapped"?
“Trapper” players are so rarely on a top team or a top player it is stupid to move everything for these few players. The vast majority of good players(75%j have birthdays Jan - June. Why upset everything for so little benefit.
Anonymous
07/01/2024 14:12
Subject: Huge ECNL News coming 7/1/2024
Anonymous wrote:What about kids that are ahead academically and are a certain birth year but maybe a year or two above where they would be grade wise?
What about them? What is their Birthdate that would dictate what age group they play in. They can always play up if they are good enough.
Anonymous
07/01/2024 14:03
Subject: Huge ECNL News coming 7/1/2024
What about kids that are ahead academically and are a certain birth year but maybe a year or two above where they would be grade wise?
Anonymous
07/01/2024 13:41
Subject: Huge ECNL News coming 7/1/2024
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:If US Soccer goes back to school year, then there will be no “trapped player”. I see people mixing in ideas of bio-banding and playing up, but that’s all noise. The term “trapped player” is specific to kids who are born in (September?) Oct, Nov, December and therefore are in a different school class than the kids born Jan-September.
That’s it, nothing fancy or strange. Sure, there will be edge cases of kids who are held back or moved forward in school, but for the vast majority, the move would re-align them for the purposes of college recruiting.
Frankly, if I had a trapped player I would want this. It really sucks for the kids who are sophomores in HS during that crucial year when all of their teammates are all-in on recruiting. Most significant is just the sheer number of coaches that show up. If you are U17, you might have 60-120 College coaches show up at your ECNL showcase or Jeff Cup game. When you are U18/19, it’s 35 coaches, and half of them are only showing up to make sure the kids they already signed aren’t slacking off.
Won't there still be players whose soccer year and club year are misaligned? If the soccer year starts 8/1 but the school cut off is 10/1, the August-September kids are playing a year "down" compared to their school year, right? Is the answer just that there are fewer of them or they are somehow not "trapped"?
This ^^^
Yes most schools are earlier than 10/1 for the cut off but yes. It reduces the number of kids playing in an age group that doesn't align with their school year peers. I don't know what the person above is going on about with the Q1, Q4 nonsense. The study looked at the number of kids making teams and when they were born. Shockingly the older kids were more highly represented on the Teams. That has nothing to do with being a trapped player. You know not having a team to play for because the rest of your team is off playing highschool.
The way the system is now there is a quarter of the kids that are not playing with their school year peers. If that gets dropped from 1/4 down to 1/12, or 1/6th that's a net loss of trapped players no?
Anonymous
07/01/2024 13:35
Subject: Huge ECNL News coming 7/1/2024
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:If US Soccer goes back to school year, then there will be no “trapped player”. I see people mixing in ideas of bio-banding and playing up, but that’s all noise. The term “trapped player” is specific to kids who are born in (September?) Oct, Nov, December and therefore are in a different school class than the kids born Jan-September.
That’s it, nothing fancy or strange. Sure, there will be edge cases of kids who are held back or moved forward in school, but for the vast majority, the move would re-align them for the purposes of college recruiting.
Frankly, if I had a trapped player I would want this. It really sucks for the kids who are sophomores in HS during that crucial year when all of their teammates are all-in on recruiting. Most significant is just the sheer number of coaches that show up. If you are U17, you might have 60-120 College coaches show up at your ECNL showcase or Jeff Cup game. When you are U18/19, it’s 35 coaches, and half of them are only showing up to make sure the kids they already signed aren’t slacking off.
Won't there still be players whose soccer year and club year are misaligned? If the soccer year starts 8/1 but the school cut off is 10/1, the August-September kids are playing a year "down" compared to their school year, right? Is the answer just that there are fewer of them or they are somehow not "trapped"?
This ^^^
Anonymous
07/01/2024 13:35
Subject: Huge ECNL News coming 7/1/2024
That is not an announcement.
That is gossip
Anonymous
07/01/2024 13:32
Subject: Huge ECNL News coming 7/1/2024
Anonymous wrote:If US Soccer goes back to school year, then there will be no “trapped player”. I see people mixing in ideas of bio-banding and playing up, but that’s all noise. The term “trapped player” is specific to kids who are born in (September?) Oct, Nov, December and therefore are in a different school class than the kids born Jan-September.
That’s it, nothing fancy or strange. Sure, there will be edge cases of kids who are held back or moved forward in school, but for the vast majority, the move would re-align them for the purposes of college recruiting.
Frankly, if I had a trapped player I would want this. It really sucks for the kids who are sophomores in HS during that crucial year when all of their teammates are all-in on recruiting. Most significant is just the sheer number of coaches that show up. If you are U17, you might have 60-120 College coaches show up at your ECNL showcase or Jeff Cup game. When you are U18/19, it’s 35 coaches, and half of them are only showing up to make sure the kids they already signed aren’t slacking off.
Won't there still be players whose soccer year and club year are misaligned? If the soccer year starts 8/1 but the school cut off is 10/1, the August-September kids are playing a year "down" compared to their school year, right? Is the answer just that there are fewer of them or they are somehow not "trapped"?
Anonymous
07/01/2024 13:31
Subject: Huge ECNL News coming 7/1/2024
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Is this announced officially yet? Or is this the annual summer break gossip / buzz?
it's coming. it should be that all leagues will change back.
What is coming? An official announcement? Or are you saying that the change is inevitable?
International play is birth year, recruiting is graduation year, it seems this buzz is about returning to the old 8/1 cutoff - which is neither, it just turns Q2 players into Q4 players and creates a new sacrificial lamb / trap player - albeit a convenient on for NCAA since coaches are too busy running their programs to actually keep a player on their radar for more than 18-24m.
How does aligning the calendar to more closely align with a school year cut offs create a new trapped player?
How does changing it from school year to birth year create a trap player?
This is not a serious question. Until they’re all adults, there is always a trap set of players, the banding is all arbitrary.
Bio-banding, with all its flaws, and its narrow age window relevance, at least recognizes that and tries to account for the relative age with developmental milestones.
I promise the experts ENCL will use to justify the change have an equal number of counterparties in the other side of this debate. And in 10 years we’ll be repeating the cycle.
Yes seriously. I'm not talking about the kids parents hold back but looking at everyone there will be less trapped players if the age groups are aligned to the school year calendar. It's math not opinion.
What is the math?
Are you referring to birth month distribution? If so you need to exclude older demographics and you’ll see that it turns August, September, October, into June, July, August, October with July and August being peak.
The 1990 study that spurred much of the relative age research doesn’t account for changing demographics, economics, geographic distribution, even climate change. A lot has changed, and birth month distribution has been flattening for the better part of 2 decades.
There is always a trap kid. You’re just arguing that on historical averages, (including boomers) for birth month distribution, there are fewer Q2 / Q3 births than Q1 / Q4 so the harm falls on a smaller number of children. One could use the same argument to say, let’s just shift the window so that the Q1/Q2 kids are in the trap, then the vast majority are happy….