Anonymous
08/31/2024 02:36
Subject: Re:Top National EC/Awards
Anonymous wrote:This doesn’t make any sense, honestly? Winning a national competition (a single student in the USA) is just one tier above president of a club? What?
At our school, anyone can get president of the club if they really want it because not many kids want to do it. The same kid has like 4 president of this and that club because nobody wanted it. Also our clubs barely meet.
Anonymous
08/30/2024 22:58
Subject: Top National EC/Awards
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:T20 Scoring advice (if you have at least one level 1 and a few level 2, your app should get to committee (assuming academics).
Score all 10 of your ECs.
Level 1:
displays outstanding achievement and is unlikely to be encountered on a regular basis by admissions committees
- Winning a National Competition (math, debate, sports)
- Writing a Novel
- Raising substantial money for a Non-Profit
- Founding a successful Startup or business
Level 2:
Noteworthy but universities are more likely to see it (more impressive if you founded the club with impact)
- President of a Club
- President MUN or debate
- Regional Sports
- Regional Orchestra or band
- Regional Volunteer experiences
*** leadership positions are key
Level 3
Less impactful or impressive, but still show commitment to your community and interests
- lower tier officer of aClub
-Tutoring outside school
-Player of Week Award
-School's awards or recognitions
Level 4
universities are more likely to see it, but they're still valuable for showing your potential
-MUN participant
-Science Olympiads
-School's Sports
-Playing in the school band
-Learning piano outside of school
-Local Volunteer
Look at the Yale AO podcast to understand the EC scoring (it goes up to nine but most kids get a score between four and seven). A very high EC score can somewhat offset weakness in other places.
Is this accurate?
Maybe? Both of mine had 2+ level twos and one had a level one, both had maximum course difficulty and excellent scores, both T10. From our school seems as though course difficulty and scores still matter most. And not being a brat. LOR matter a lot
Anonymous
08/30/2024 20:41
Subject: Re:Top National EC/Awards
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:This doesn’t make any sense, honestly? Winning a national competition (a single student in the USA) is just one tier above president of a club? What?
Tier 1 - National recognition
Name brand competition wins. National championships in sports (individual better than team), Deca, NSDA, USAMO, etc. URM also counts as a free tier 1 EC.
Tier 2 - Regional recognition
Varsity sport leadership, major club leadership, etc. ABRSM 8, black belt in karate, etc also fall in here although because they have no synergy with major, they are worth far less than major specific EC's.
Tier 3 - Everything else, thanks for participating
College Vine has an excellent tier list. You can enter your own EC in profile and see how it stacks up.
Generally you need tier 2's to crack a t20. Multiple tier 2's or tier 1 to hit t5.
EC's that synergize with your major gives double the benefit. I.e. if your goal is CS in MIT, NSDA national champion of debate is not nearly as valuable as USAMO. Even if they are roughly same tier.
This is helpful.
What types of sports are Tier 1? Other than Olympics?
Anonymous
08/30/2024 20:40
Subject: Top National EC/Awards
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Presidential scholar doesn’t matter that much anymore. Sure it’s great to get a 1600 but the 1600 kids I know were all rejected by ivies. They are brilliant and will do great in life but it was not a help at all for college admission at Top20 universities.
Better to get 1580 than 1600 I hear. Stereotypes/tropes etc.
True. Perfectionist tendencies will crater app season. Not a good thing.
Anonymous
08/30/2024 20:37
Subject: Top National EC/Awards
Anonymous wrote:T20 Scoring advice (if you have at least one level 1 and a few level 2, your app should get to committee (assuming academics).
Score all 10 of your ECs.
Level 1:
displays outstanding achievement and is unlikely to be encountered on a regular basis by admissions committees
- Winning a National Competition (math, debate, sports)
- Writing a Novel
- Raising substantial money for a Non-Profit
- Founding a successful Startup or business
Level 2:
Noteworthy but universities are more likely to see it (more impressive if you founded the club with impact)
- President of a Club
- President MUN or debate
- Regional Sports
- Regional Orchestra or band
- Regional Volunteer experiences
*** leadership positions are key
Level 3
Less impactful or impressive, but still show commitment to your community and interests
- lower tier officer of aClub
-Tutoring outside school
-Player of Week Award
-School's awards or recognitions
Level 4
universities are more likely to see it, but they're still valuable for showing your potential
-MUN participant
-Science Olympiads
-School's Sports
-Playing in the school band
-Learning piano outside of school
-Local Volunteer
Look at the Yale AO podcast to understand the EC scoring (it goes up to nine but most kids get a score between four and seven). A very high EC score can somewhat offset weakness in other places.
Is this accurate?
Anonymous
08/26/2024 12:55
Subject: Top National EC/Awards
Anonymous wrote:Presidential scholar doesn’t matter that much anymore. Sure it’s great to get a 1600 but the 1600 kids I know were all rejected by ivies. They are brilliant and will do great in life but it was not a help at all for college admission at Top20 universities.
Better to get 1580 than 1600 I hear. Stereotypes/tropes etc.
Anonymous
08/26/2024 12:13
Subject: Top National EC/Awards
Presidential scholar doesn’t matter that much anymore. Sure it’s great to get a 1600 but the 1600 kids I know were all rejected by ivies. They are brilliant and will do great in life but it was not a help at all for college admission at Top20 universities.
Anonymous
08/26/2024 11:22
Subject: Re:Top National EC/Awards
My kid is in MS and doesn't want to practice violin anymore. Does it still make sense to have them complete ABRSM 8 before they give up? They are at that level, more or less (they used to be very good but just don't want to practice anymore).
Anonymous
08/26/2024 10:06
Subject: Re:Top National EC/Awards
Anonymous wrote:This doesn’t make any sense, honestly? Winning a national competition (a single student in the USA) is just one tier above president of a club? What?
Tier 1 - National recognition
Name brand competition wins. National championships in sports (individual better than team), Deca, NSDA, USAMO, etc. URM also counts as a free tier 1 EC.
Tier 2 - Regional recognition
Varsity sport leadership, major club leadership, etc. ABRSM 8, black belt in karate, etc also fall in here although because they have no synergy with major, they are worth far less than major specific EC's.
Tier 3 - Everything else, thanks for participating
College Vine has an excellent tier list. You can enter your own EC in profile and see how it stacks up.
Generally you need tier 2's to crack a t20. Multiple tier 2's or tier 1 to hit t5.
EC's that synergize with your major gives double the benefit. I.e. if your goal is CS in MIT, NSDA national champion of debate is not nearly as valuable as USAMO. Even if they are roughly same tier.
Anonymous
08/26/2024 09:52
Subject: Re:Top National EC/Awards
Which schools other than Harvard have a sixth of the score for Athletics (even if not recruited)?
https://www.collegeadvisor.com/resources/ivy-league-application/
Does anyone know?
______________________________________________________________
Extracurriculars
For this category, emphasis is mostly focused on accomplishments in the scope of geographic regions:
“1. Unusual strength in one or more areas. Possible national-level achievement or professional experience. A potential major contributor at Harvard. Truly unusual achievement.
2. Strong secondary school contribution in one or more areas such as class president, newspaper editor, etc. Local or regional recognition; major accomplishment(s).
3. Solid participation but without special distinction. (Upgrade 3+ to 2- in some cases if the e/c is particularly extensive and substantive.)
4. Little or no participation.
5. Substantial activity outside of conventional EC participation such as family commitments or term-time work (could be included with other e/c to boost the rating or left as a “5” if it is more representative of the student’s commitment).
6. Special circumstances limit or prevent participation (e.g. a physical condition).”
Keep in mind that family commitments and community employment is taken into consideration here. This means that if your family depends on you for an extra source of income, you will not be penalized for spending your time at a job rather than preparing to win your next international competition. Remember, admissions offices evaluate applicants on the basis of their context, and this is one category where context trumps all else.
Most importantly, notice how a 1 category can be earned with unusual accomplishment in “one or more categories.” This means that being a world-class pianist vs. being a world-class pianist, tennis player, and chess player will yield no difference in this rating category. Simply having big accomplishments in one deeply developed area is enough! Less is more.
And a final note on geographic regions: it doesn’t seem to be the case that winning a competition in a highly competitive state (like California) vs. winning a competition in a less populated state (like Idaho) will be weighted differently in the admissions officer’s eyes. Your rating depends on your accomplishments within a geographic scope. So if you think you’re tops for California–a highly competitive state that holds top performers on an international scale–then it is much more worthwhile for you to compete in international competitions and try to win those than it is for you to win 1st at California state level competitions. Go big or go home.
Athletic
Again, keep in mind that the admissions office will not weigh your overall score down just because you have a low score in one area. The athletic category can only be a boost for those who are recruited athletes or performing at a similar level. If you receive a 4 or lower, this category will not drag down the rest of your application:
“1. Unusually strong prospect for varsity sports at Harvard, desired by Harvard coaches.
2. Strong secondary school contribution in one or more areas; possible leadership role(s).
3. Active participation.
4. Little or no interest.
5. Substantial activity outside of conventional EC participation such as family commitments or term-time work (could be included with other e/c to boost the rating or left as a “5” if it is more representative of the student’s commitment).
6. Physical condition prevents significant activity.”
https://www.collegeadvisor.com/resources/ivy-league-application/
Does anyone know?
______________________________________________________________
Extracurriculars
For this category, emphasis is mostly focused on accomplishments in the scope of geographic regions:
“1. Unusual strength in one or more areas. Possible national-level achievement or professional experience. A potential major contributor at Harvard. Truly unusual achievement.
2. Strong secondary school contribution in one or more areas such as class president, newspaper editor, etc. Local or regional recognition; major accomplishment(s).
3. Solid participation but without special distinction. (Upgrade 3+ to 2- in some cases if the e/c is particularly extensive and substantive.)
4. Little or no participation.
5. Substantial activity outside of conventional EC participation such as family commitments or term-time work (could be included with other e/c to boost the rating or left as a “5” if it is more representative of the student’s commitment).
6. Special circumstances limit or prevent participation (e.g. a physical condition).”
Keep in mind that family commitments and community employment is taken into consideration here. This means that if your family depends on you for an extra source of income, you will not be penalized for spending your time at a job rather than preparing to win your next international competition. Remember, admissions offices evaluate applicants on the basis of their context, and this is one category where context trumps all else.
Most importantly, notice how a 1 category can be earned with unusual accomplishment in “one or more categories.” This means that being a world-class pianist vs. being a world-class pianist, tennis player, and chess player will yield no difference in this rating category. Simply having big accomplishments in one deeply developed area is enough! Less is more.
And a final note on geographic regions: it doesn’t seem to be the case that winning a competition in a highly competitive state (like California) vs. winning a competition in a less populated state (like Idaho) will be weighted differently in the admissions officer’s eyes. Your rating depends on your accomplishments within a geographic scope. So if you think you’re tops for California–a highly competitive state that holds top performers on an international scale–then it is much more worthwhile for you to compete in international competitions and try to win those than it is for you to win 1st at California state level competitions. Go big or go home.
Athletic
Again, keep in mind that the admissions office will not weigh your overall score down just because you have a low score in one area. The athletic category can only be a boost for those who are recruited athletes or performing at a similar level. If you receive a 4 or lower, this category will not drag down the rest of your application:
“1. Unusually strong prospect for varsity sports at Harvard, desired by Harvard coaches.
2. Strong secondary school contribution in one or more areas; possible leadership role(s).
3. Active participation.
4. Little or no interest.
5. Substantial activity outside of conventional EC participation such as family commitments or term-time work (could be included with other e/c to boost the rating or left as a “5” if it is more representative of the student’s commitment).
6. Physical condition prevents significant activity.”
Anonymous
08/26/2024 09:37
Subject: Top National EC/Awards
The additional twist is that there are dozens of international students each year winning gold medals at IMO, IphO etc. But many of those students come from small countries where it's much easier to qualify. Not saying they are not brilliant or anything, but it's about 50-100 times harder to qualify for the US team than, say, Austrian.
Anonymous
08/26/2024 09:23
Subject: Re:Top National EC/Awards
Anonymous wrote:This doesn’t make any sense, honestly? Winning a national competition (a single student in the USA) is just one tier above president of a club? What?
Is this your first rodeo?
There's so much info on this all over the internet. Google a little bit.
Anonymous
08/26/2024 09:21
Subject: Re:Top National EC/Awards
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:This is an incomplete list:
National Award Levels
10: Congrats, this is your ticket
D1 athlete
IMO/IPHO/ICHO/IBO/IOI/IOAA/IOL medals
Intel STS Top 10; Siemens Finalist; ISEF Top 3 Grand Prize; Google Science Fair age group winner
History Day National Winner
Single/First Author in High Impact Factor Journal
9: Almost a ticket to a prestigious school
Siemens Westinghouse finalists; Google Science Fair Finalist; MOP; Intel STS Finalist; ISEF Best of Category
FL Nationals winner
RSI (Research Science Institute)
Published in a relatively prestigious journal
8: Amazing accomplishment; Large boost
TASP, USAPhO/USNCO/USABO/USACO National Finalist
Google Science Fair Semifinalist; Siemens Semi-finalists; Intel ISEF 1st-4th place category; Intel STS semifinalist,
Running your own successful business
USAMO qualification
AMC 12 Perfect Score, Presidential Scholar, Davidson Fellow
Writing Portfolio Gold Award, Presidential Scholar of the Arts, Scholastic Art
FIRST Dean's List winner, top 5 at FIRST World Championships,
Google Code Jam Round 2, 3 Qualifier (Vast majority of Competitors are College students and professionals)
Facebook Hacker Cup Round 2, 3 Qualifier (Vast majority of Competitors are College students and professionals)
MIT PRIMES Participant
7:
SSP, Simons, Clark Summer Program, NIH Research, and MITES and other selective programs
Science Olympiad national medals, EUCYS prizes
State governors schools with acceptance rate <15% (PGSS, NJGSS, most other science governor's schools)
USACO Platinum Division
ARML Tiebreaker Round / Top Team, YES Competition (Young Epidemiology Scholarship), USAMTS Gold Medal
Intel ISEF Finalist, History Day National Level
Scholastic Art & Writing National Gold Medal. NFL Nationals (speech and debate) "breakers" (elimination rounds), Tournament of Champions (debate) "breakers," Congressional Award Gold Medalist,
6:
USAPhO/USABO semifinals, Science Olympiad Nationals qualification
USACO Gold Division
AMC 10 Perfect Score
Less competitive governor's schools (Acceptance rate between 15% and 25%), any other scholarship summer programs not aforementioned
Congressional Award Silver Medalist, NFL Nationals/Tournament of Champions Qualifier, FBLA Nationals
Science Bowl/Ocean Science Bowl/NAQT winners, Technology Student Association Nationals
FIRST Dean's List finalist
Top 5 FIRST Super Regionals (FTC)
Scholastic Art & Writing National Silver Medal
Academic Decathlon State (CA) Honors Top 3
(6.5) Google Code Jam Qualifier (Vast majority of Competitors are College students and professionals)
(6.5) Facebook Hacker Cup Qualifier (Vast majority of Competitors are College students and professionals)
5: Pretty good; will complement an already strong record
USAAAO
USNCO semifinals
AIME
National Latin Convention 1st Places Academic Contests,
All-Eastern/all-regional music, State History Day top 3 place
Top 5 FIRST State Championship (or Regionals for FRC), JETS TEAMS National Finalist, Skills USA Nationals
State Science Fair Winner/Top Award
Academic Decathlon State (AZ/TX/MA/WI), Nationals Top 3 Honors & California Event Golds
4:
USACO Silver Division
Science Fair Regional winner
Science Olympiad state medals (depending on what state you're from)
Science Bowl national qualification
Perfect Score (Multiple Years) on National Latin Exam
State awards (all-state music, etc)
Academic Decathlon State (AZ/TX/MA/WI) Event Golds
MUN Gavel
AMC 10/12 school winner (depends on your school)
Art and Writing Regional Gold award
Top 5 FIRST Regional (FTC)
3: Some effort involved, but not uncommon
Winning at local/regional science fairs
All-County music,
Eagle Scout, National Merit Finalist
Head of a competitive club that you did not found (ex: Mock Trial, Model UN, Science Olympiad)
2: Your average go-getter
Bank of America Awards
Local awards/trophies
Essay Contests
Regional History Day
1 : Common activities
National Honor Society
Beta Club
School Departmental Awards
School Honor Roll
Key Club, CSF, Interact Club
National Merit Commended
Member of a club with no distinctions earned
0: A dime in a dozen; meaningless
Who's Who, National Honor Roll, National Society of High School Scholars
IMO medal is not harder than getting to IMO. 1/2 of all participants at IMO win medals.
Hasn't the entire US team won a medal every year for the past several years?
Yes. And almost always everyone has gotten a gold medal, which I think is something like 1/6 of all medals. Not easy but once you make it to IMO as one of only six or so students, winning a medal is not that big of a deal. Yet this person put medal as a 10 but qualifying for IMO as 8. Qualifying is a 10, also, and is much much harder (more selective) than being a D1 athlete, hard as that is.
FWIW I think the original post had USAMO qualification as 8, MOP as 9 and IMO as 10. That sounds about right since about 200 or so juniors/seniors qualify for AMO, 40+ for MOP and 6 for IMO. And yes, even AMO qualification is harder than being a D1 athlete (numbers wise).
Anonymous
08/26/2024 09:21
Subject: Re:Top National EC/Awards
This doesn’t make any sense, honestly? Winning a national competition (a single student in the USA) is just one tier above president of a club? What?
Anonymous
08/26/2024 09:15
Subject: Top National EC/Awards
Look at how the extracurricular activities and titles are grouped on collegevine.
You’ll be able to see a lot about what schools value the most.
You’ll be able to see a lot about what schools value the most.