Anonymous wrote:I look at this comment at a more macro level. Children grow up to support the economic system. Children are who eventually fund pensions and SS. By opting out of children (even if done for all the right reasons) you are in essence riding the coattails of others who went through the struggles of raising children. And if everyone opted out of having children humanity would end.

Anonymous wrote:For the record I do not think it's selfish to not have kids.

But I think when people say this, they say it from the perspective of having kids and knowing that having kids means putting your kids well-being first. You have to because your kids rely on you for everything and they just need so much. So the experience of parenting is an experience of giving. Sometimes it's the first or most striking experience with having to care for another human being in this way.

So I think people look at their own experience and see the selflessness parenting has required and can include that someone choosing not to be a parent is doing so because they aren't ready to be selfless in that way. I don't think this because I think degree of selflessness good parenting requires comes as a surprise to most people, as does your own willingness to do it because the level of love you feel for your kids also comes as a surprise. You think you know but you don't. People who say childless people are selfish are reasoning backwards but forgetting what it was like to actually not have kids.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Realistically it's much more selfish to have children. Whenever people talk about wanting kids, it's always "I want..." the epitome of selfish.

A mom friend told me once that anyone who calls you selfish for not wanting kids is probably going through a rough time with their kids and are a wee bit jealous. Maybe not of your entire life, but of that moment.

I've known since a kid that I didn't want kids. I think it's pretty selfless to realize you won't be a great parent and thus don't put an innocent child through it. More parents should not have children honestly, quite a few are not fit.

The bar for being a good parent is very low. There's no such thing as a perfect parent, and we all turn out mostly okay. The people who turn out really flawed usually have something else going on.

But I agree that anyone who has kids because they want love, or they have some expectation that their children will provide THEM with anything (security, grandchildren, etc.) are in it for the wrong reason.

Is that why there are so many child/animal abusers, rapists, murderers, drunk drivers? Because we all turn out mostly ok? I think society disagrees. But thank goodness someone is popping out kids that turn into all these to fund SS

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For the record I do not think it's selfish to not have kids.

But I think when people say this, they say it from the perspective of having kids and knowing that having kids means putting your kids well-being first. You have to because your kids rely on you for everything and they just need so much. So the experience of parenting is an experience of giving. Sometimes it's the first or most striking experience with having to care for another human being in this way.

So I think people look at their own experience and see the selflessness parenting has required and can include that someone choosing not to be a parent is doing so because they aren't ready to be selfless in that way. I don't think this because I think degree of selflessness good parenting requires comes as a surprise to most people, as does your own willingness to do it because the level of love you feel for your kids also comes as a surprise. You think you know but you don't. People who say childless people are selfish are reasoning backwards but forgetting what it was like to actually not have kids.

If you don't have kids, your daily life is centered around you. How you want to spend your time, on a mundane level and more holistically. That's not selfish but it's just where the focal point is and what makes the most sense. Apart from extenuating circumstances like being a FT caregiver for another family member.

With kids, their needs are leading everything. From meeting infant needs to toddler demands to financial decisions, where you live, etc. Thats very different from being an aunt etc, even a very loving and helpful one.

Depends on what you do with your time, really. A nurse often goes 12 or more hours without urinating on shift, because the needs of patients come first. Sure, she made the choice to commit to them b taking the job, but that's not that dissimilar to committing to being a parent.

Try telling a construction worker putting up drywall that how he spends his time is based on meeting his own needs. Or an Amazon warehouse worker who's being timed by the half minute.

It really depends, you know? And I think a lot of people without children get challenged with "who's going to take care of you in your own age? You'll die alone." It's a selfish justification for having children that comes up **all the time** on this board.

Parents can't walk away from their job as parents, and I think that's what is often overlooked. But that doesn't mean other people always have lives that revolve around meeting their own needs in the moment and holistically. It does mean, however, that if they are choosing to put other people's needs before their own, it is a choice they recommit to each and every day, not something they are committed to because of a decision made long ago, and that they cannot get out of. It's an ongoing choice, when instead they could leave. That seems to be worth a little something, too.

This is definitely one of the most selfish reasons to have kids.

It's a terrible reason to have kids, but realistically it's a huge benefit.

People without kids wind up a corpse stuffed in a garbage bag behind Michaels.

I'm assuming this is a troll, because that's not even close to true.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Realistically it's much more selfish to have children. Whenever people talk about wanting kids, it's always "I want..." the epitome of selfish.

A mom friend told me once that anyone who calls you selfish for not wanting kids is probably going through a rough time with their kids and are a wee bit jealous. Maybe not of your entire life, but of that moment.

I've known since a kid that I didn't want kids. I think it's pretty selfless to realize you won't be a great parent and thus don't put an innocent child through it. More parents should not have children honestly, quite a few are not fit.

The bar for being a good parent is very low. There's no such thing as a perfect parent, and we all turn out mostly okay. The people who turn out really flawed usually have something else going on.

But I agree that anyone who has kids because they want love, or they have some expectation that their children will provide THEM with anything (security, grandchildren, etc.) are in it for the wrong reason.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's gaslighting! THE most selfish thing YOU can do is think the world needs more of YOU so YOU reproduce little YOU'S.

Lol. Yup.

Do you know how reproduction works? They're not clones...

Why are you so triggered by CF posts?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For the record I do not think it's selfish to not have kids.

But I think when people say this, they say it from the perspective of having kids and knowing that having kids means putting your kids well-being first. You have to because your kids rely on you for everything and they just need so much. So the experience of parenting is an experience of giving. Sometimes it's the first or most striking experience with having to care for another human being in this way.

So I think people look at their own experience and see the selflessness parenting has required and can include that someone choosing not to be a parent is doing so because they aren't ready to be selfless in that way. I don't think this because I think degree of selflessness good parenting requires comes as a surprise to most people, as does your own willingness to do it because the level of love you feel for your kids also comes as a surprise. You think you know but you don't. People who say childless people are selfish are reasoning backwards but forgetting what it was like to actually not have kids.

If you don't have kids, your daily life is centered around you. How you want to spend your time, on a mundane level and more holistically. That's not selfish but it's just where the focal point is and what makes the most sense. Apart from extenuating circumstances like being a FT caregiver for another family member.

With kids, their needs are leading everything. From meeting infant needs to toddler demands to financial decisions, where you live, etc. Thats very different from being an aunt etc, even a very loving and helpful one.

Depends on what you do with your time, really. A nurse often goes 12 or more hours without urinating on shift, because the needs of patients come first. Sure, she made the choice to commit to them b taking the job, but that's not that dissimilar to committing to being a parent.

Try telling a construction worker putting up drywall that how he spends his time is based on meeting his own needs. Or an Amazon warehouse worker who's being timed by the half minute.

It really depends, you know? And I think a lot of people without children get challenged with "who's going to take care of you in your own age? You'll die alone." It's a selfish justification for having children that comes up **all the time** on this board.

Parents can't walk away from their job as parents, and I think that's what is often overlooked. But that doesn't mean other people always have lives that revolve around meeting their own needs in the moment and holistically. It does mean, however, that if they are choosing to put other people's needs before their own, it is a choice they recommit to each and every day, not something they are committed to because of a decision made long ago, and that they cannot get out of. It's an ongoing choice, when instead they could leave. That seems to be worth a little something, too.

This is definitely one of the most selfish reasons to have kids.

It's a terrible reason to have kids, but realistically it's a huge benefit.

People without kids wind up a corpse stuffed in a garbage bag behind Michaels.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's gaslighting! THE most selfish thing YOU can do is think the world needs more of YOU so YOU reproduce little YOU'S.

Lol. Yup.

Do you know how reproduction works? They're not clones...

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's gaslighting! THE most selfish thing YOU can do is think the world needs more of YOU so YOU reproduce little YOU'S.

Lol. Yup.

Anonymous wrote:It's gaslighting! THE most selfish thing YOU can do is think the world needs more of YOU so YOU reproduce little YOU'S.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For the record I do not think it's selfish to not have kids.

But I think when people say this, they say it from the perspective of having kids and knowing that having kids means putting your kids well-being first. You have to because your kids rely on you for everything and they just need so much. So the experience of parenting is an experience of giving. Sometimes it's the first or most striking experience with having to care for another human being in this way.

So I think people look at their own experience and see the selflessness parenting has required and can include that someone choosing not to be a parent is doing so because they aren't ready to be selfless in that way. I don't think this because I think degree of selflessness good parenting requires comes as a surprise to most people, as does your own willingness to do it because the level of love you feel for your kids also comes as a surprise. You think you know but you don't. People who say childless people are selfish are reasoning backwards but forgetting what it was like to actually not have kids.

If you don't have kids, your daily life is centered around you. How you want to spend your time, on a mundane level and more holistically. That's not selfish but it's just where the focal point is and what makes the most sense. Apart from extenuating circumstances like being a FT caregiver for another family member.

With kids, their needs are leading everything. From meeting infant needs to toddler demands to financial decisions, where you live, etc. Thats very different from being an aunt etc, even a very loving and helpful one.

Depends on what you do with your time, really. A nurse often goes 12 or more hours without urinating on shift, because the needs of patients come first. Sure, she made the choice to commit to them b taking the job, but that's not that dissimilar to committing to being a parent.

Try telling a construction worker putting up drywall that how he spends his time is based on meeting his own needs. Or an Amazon warehouse worker who's being timed by the half minute.

It really depends, you know? And I think a lot of people without children get challenged with "who's going to take care of you in your own age? You'll die alone." It's a selfish justification for having children that comes up **all the time** on this board.

Parents can't walk away from their job as parents, and I think that's what is often overlooked. But that doesn't mean other people always have lives that revolve around meeting their own needs in the moment and holistically. It does mean, however, that if they are choosing to put other people's needs before their own, it is a choice they recommit to each and every day, not something they are committed to because of a decision made long ago, and that they cannot get out of. It's an ongoing choice, when instead they could leave. That seems to be worth a little something, too.

This is definitely one of the most selfish reasons to have kids.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For the record I do not think it's selfish to not have kids.

But I think when people say this, they say it from the perspective of having kids and knowing that having kids means putting your kids well-being first. You have to because your kids rely on you for everything and they just need so much. So the experience of parenting is an experience of giving. Sometimes it's the first or most striking experience with having to care for another human being in this way.

So I think people look at their own experience and see the selflessness parenting has required and can include that someone choosing not to be a parent is doing so because they aren't ready to be selfless in that way. I don't think this because I think degree of selflessness good parenting requires comes as a surprise to most people, as does your own willingness to do it because the level of love you feel for your kids also comes as a surprise. You think you know but you don't. People who say childless people are selfish are reasoning backwards but forgetting what it was like to actually not have kids.

If you don't have kids, your daily life is centered around you. How you want to spend your time, on a mundane level and more holistically. That's not selfish but it's just where the focal point is and what makes the most sense. Apart from extenuating circumstances like being a FT caregiver for another family member.

With kids, their needs are leading everything. From meeting infant needs to toddler demands to financial decisions, where you live, etc. Thats very different from being an aunt etc, even a very loving and helpful one.

Depends on what you do with your time, really. A nurse often goes 12 or more hours without urinating on shift, because the needs of patients come first. Sure, she made the choice to commit to them b taking the job, but that's not that dissimilar to committing to being a parent.

Try telling a construction worker putting up drywall that how he spends his time is based on meeting his own needs. Or an Amazon warehouse worker who's being timed by the half minute.

It really depends, you know? And I think a lot of people without children get challenged with "who's going to take care of you in your own age? You'll die alone." It's a selfish justification for having children that comes up **all the time** on this board.

Parents can't walk away from their job as parents, and I think that's what is often overlooked. But that doesn't mean other people always have lives that revolve around meeting their own needs in the moment and holistically. It does mean, however, that if they are choosing to put other people's needs before their own, it is a choice they recommit to each and every day, not something they are committed to because of a decision made long ago, and that they cannot get out of. It's an ongoing choice, when instead they could leave. That seems to be worth a little something, too.

Anonymous wrote:Realistically it's much more selfish to have children. Whenever people talk about wanting kids, it's always "I want..." the epitome of selfish.

A mom friend told me once that anyone who calls you selfish for not wanting kids is probably going through a rough time with their kids and are a wee bit jealous. Maybe not of your entire life, but of that moment.

I've known since a kid that I didn't want kids. I think it's pretty selfless to realize you won't be a great parent and thus don't put an innocent child through it. More parents should not have children honestly, quite a few are not fit.