Anonymous wrote:How many Scandinavian 3-month olds are in daycare? Many don’t start until 2 because of dual parental leave.

How many teachers in Scandinavian toddler rooms worked at a fast food restaurant as their last job? None, because it’s a real professional path.

I know all about European childcare standards and the scenarios aren’t comparable. My young French relatives literally don’t go to school on Wednesdays. The corporate world adjusts to them. We’re talking about the reality for American children, on the ground—but nice attempt to distract.

Also, the danger is in the dose. Look at total hours over the course of a week, a year or a child’s life.

Anonymous wrote:How many Scandinavian 3-month olds are in daycare? Many don’t start until 2 because of dual parental leave.

How many teachers in Scandinavian toddler rooms worked at a fast food restaurant as their last job? None, because it’s a real professional path.

I know all about European childcare standards and the scenarios aren’t comparable. My young French relatives literally don’t go to school on Wednesdays. The corporate world adjusts to them. We’re talking about the reality for American children, on the ground—but nice attempt to distract.

Also, the danger is in the dose. Look at total hours over the course of a week, a year or a child’s life.

Anonymous wrote:I'm the parent who keeps the flex schedule so kids aren't in SACC till 6 or stuck in camp aftercare which is ALWAYS terrible. But my career is so stymied by being parent friendly. Really wish we had focused on breadwinner SAHM model rather than equality and "do it all" fallacy.

That's all. Off to pick up my kids from camp.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t know that kids are better off or happier not having to go to aftercare or staying until closing. Avoiding that never entered my decision making, which,’along with sharing the drop off and pick up load, led to both of us being able to have the careers we wanted.

???

Shouldn’t you know if your OWN kids are better off or happier avoiding aftercare? I won’t speak for everyone’s children, but mine absolutely HATED aftercare and it stressed them out horribly.

PP to whom You are responding. My kids loved aftercare and camp. Their aftercare took care of all homework so when they got home our evenings weren’t filled with a to do list. They taught my kids to sew and all kinds of other things. Plus my kids got to play with their friends. They had plenty of time to play with each other outside of those hours. They fed my kids a ln early dinner though they’d eat again at home. They also did camp on school days off so I never scrambled for care on teacher work days. And they did a summer camp so when they were little and didn’t like a lot of change, they could just stay in their regular childcare. It was a good gig. Went from age 3 to 13.

I mean… that mostly sounds like a glowing review of how much YOU loved your kids being in aftercare. Aren’t you the poster who basically said that whether or not your kids liked aftercare was never even worthy of consideration in your mind?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t know that kids are better off or happier not having to go to aftercare or staying until closing. Avoiding that never entered my decision making, which,’along with sharing the drop off and pick up load, led to both of us being able to have the careers we wanted.

???

Shouldn’t you know if your OWN kids are better off or happier avoiding aftercare? I won’t speak for everyone’s children, but mine absolutely HATED aftercare and it stressed them out horribly.

PP to whom You are responding. My kids loved aftercare and camp. Their aftercare took care of all homework so when they got home our evenings weren’t filled with a to do list. They taught my kids to sew and all kinds of other things. Plus my kids got to play with their friends. They had plenty of time to play with each other outside of those hours. They fed my kids a ln early dinner though they’d eat again at home. They also did camp on school days off so I never scrambled for care on teacher work days. And they did a summer camp so when they were little and didn’t like a lot of change, they could just stay in their regular childcare. It was a good gig. Went from age 3 to 13.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t know that kids are better off or happier not having to go to aftercare or staying until closing. Avoiding that never entered my decision making, which,’along with sharing the drop off and pick up load, led to both of us being able to have the careers we wanted.

???

Shouldn’t you know if your OWN kids are better off or happier avoiding aftercare? I won’t speak for everyone’s children, but mine absolutely HATED aftercare and it stressed them out horribly.

PP to whom You are responding. My kids loved aftercare and camp. Their aftercare took care of all homework so when they got home our evenings weren’t filled with a to do list. They taught my kids to sew and all kinds of other things. Plus my kids got to play with their friends. They had plenty of time to play with each other outside of those hours. They fed my kids a ln early dinner though they’d eat again at home. They also did camp on school days off so I never scrambled for care on teacher work days. And they did a summer camp so when they were little and didn’t like a lot of change, they could just stay in their regular childcare. It was a good gig. Went from age 3 to 13.

Taught to sew and fed dinner? Where is this mythical place?

+1 where was this??

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t know that kids are better off or happier not having to go to aftercare or staying until closing. Avoiding that never entered my decision making, which,’along with sharing the drop off and pick up load, led to both of us being able to have the careers we wanted.

???

Shouldn’t you know if your OWN kids are better off or happier avoiding aftercare? I won’t speak for everyone’s children, but mine absolutely HATED aftercare and it stressed them out horribly.

PP to whom You are responding. My kids loved aftercare and camp. Their aftercare took care of all homework so when they got home our evenings weren’t filled with a to do list. They taught my kids to sew and all kinds of other things. Plus my kids got to play with their friends. They had plenty of time to play with each other outside of those hours. They fed my kids a ln early dinner though they’d eat again at home. They also did camp on school days off so I never scrambled for care on teacher work days. And they did a summer camp so when they were little and didn’t like a lot of change, they could just stay in their regular childcare. It was a good gig. Went from age 3 to 13.

Taught to sew and fed dinner? Where is this mythical place?

Anonymous wrote:I have never met a woman who was in daycare/aftercare as a child also want that for her own kids. The problem is no one talks about what it costs to avoid this until you’ve had a baby.

I actually think is a huge benefit of dcum—keeping it real for young women who stumble upon posts like this.

Anonymous wrote:I’m an “anti-aftercare” poster. And a feminist. One has nothing to do with the other. Women should of course be able to work and have full lives. But infants and toddlers should also not be looked after in chaotic institutional settings by minimum-wage employees for 10 hours per day. It’s just wrong in a civilized, wealthy society. And the more anxious society gets, the more vulnerable our kids are. It’s a vicious cycle. And it all coincides with reduced standards in schools, nutrition, environment, security, etc.

I don’t know the solution but the first step in giving children a better start is for the professional classes to recognize the reality most of humankind knows. Flex hours, a few years of paid leave for both sexes, higher pay for daycare workers…all of this would be a start. But all the feminists who deny basic child development make me so upset. In my circle, most of the biggest aftercare and daycare users actually had sahms or nannies themselves.

They think because I didn’t change my name, vote for dems, married late, am an atheist etc that I agree with them. I don’t want anyone to feel judged because it’s not about them—it’s about what’s right for children.

Anonymous wrote:DH and I have flexible and interesting jobs and one child. We don't worry about money and each have time to relax. Not surprised studies show women with one child are happier than women with no or multiple children.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t know that kids are better off or happier not having to go to aftercare or staying until closing. Avoiding that never entered my decision making, which,’along with sharing the drop off and pick up load, led to both of us being able to have the careers we wanted.

???

Shouldn’t you know if your OWN kids are better off or happier avoiding aftercare? I won’t speak for everyone’s children, but mine absolutely HATED aftercare and it stressed them out horribly.

PP to whom You are responding. My kids loved aftercare and camp. Their aftercare took care of all homework so when they got home our evenings weren’t filled with a to do list. They taught my kids to sew and all kinds of other things. Plus my kids got to play with their friends. They had plenty of time to play with each other outside of those hours. They fed my kids a ln early dinner though they’d eat again at home. They also did camp on school days off so I never scrambled for care on teacher work days. And they did a summer camp so when they were little and didn’t like a lot of change, they could just stay in their regular childcare. It was a good gig. Went from age 3 to 13.