Anonymous wrote:For those loving St. Louis, do you find it very racially polarized? I think about Ferguson and wonder what it’s like there for people who aren’t white.

Good question. We are white, so I cannot really answer that. My husband works for Barnes Jewish, which is where we have made most of our friends, so our cohort is uniquely diverse, since there are so many people from other countries and backgrounds due to working in an academic hospital setting. In terms of black-white relations, we all know St. Louis has problems. There are unique structural problems / historical events that make segregation and inequality worse here than elsewhere. If you don't know where you're going, there are some horribly blighted areas right next to "nice" areas (and even more blighted areas away from nice areas). But my experience (which again is a unique experience, in that we sought out the more progressive bubble part of St. Louis), is that while I never had a black classmate growing up, my kids have black friends, their Assistant Principal is black, they have black kids on their sports teams and in their girl scout troops, they have had black teachers, etc. My husband and I also have black friends, whereas I only ever had one black friend before moving here. So in my case, my kids are growing up with more racial (and socioeconomic) diversity than I did. I guess it's just because there are more black people here overall, percentage-wise.

One generalization I can make is that I think there is more recognition of racism, rather than pretending that there is no racism/less racism than in other places, as compared to NY (especially in Nassau County but also in Westchester and NYC itself). Working class areas struggle more with racism, but that is
true anywhere IME.

For those loving St. Louis, do you find it very racially polarized? I think about Ferguson and wonder what it’s like there for people who aren’t white.

Agree - there are a lot of things that are a hassle or stressful about DC living. Traffic, the feeling of having to stake out limited #s of parking spots (& having to pay for them), feeling of more crime, crankiness, noise, iffy public works / services, terrible ambulance service, crowded hospitals, overworked people, and general sense of chaos. My opinion, but it feels very real after having grown up in a nearby suburb where even now things feel generally calmer and more leisurely. The public schools are sometimes frustrating, the private ones are $$$ and along with them come all sorts of other knock on impacts. There’s a lot of ambition and stress here and it trickles down to the kids. No doubt about it. That being said, more rural or suburban areas also have their downsides, no one lives protected from bad influences thanks to smart phones, tech and social media. Drugs are everywhere and in every school… DC offers diversity, culture, history and a sense of city life that can serve kids well. I have lived here for 25 years, raised two kids, and try to look for the silver linings!!

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We moved to an inner ring burb in St. Louis and absolutely love it. Public schools are top notch, I often bike to work (2 mi drive), kids walk to school, dh has a 20 min commute max downtown, everything is within 20 mins (zoo, lots of museums, botanical gardens, professional sports teams, symphony - most of which is free and has free parking). My mom moved here too from the nyc burbs and has never been happier. There are endless things to do and there is a lot less pretension

Is it really church-oriented? We're Jewish (though basically non-practicing) and the one time I went to St. Louis for work I was struck by how often church came up, even in casual conversation. It just seemed so central to life, in a way that makes me feel like we'd never really fit in if we didn't attend.

No. It is heavily Catholic, but not evangelical. It has a surprisingly large Jewish community, at least where we live, although I would say the Jewish community is concentrated in Creve Coeur, Ladue, Clayton, and U City (basically the areas surrounding Wash U). Even in the region as a whole, metro STL has a higher percentage of Jews than many other cities (including Dallas, Houston, Atlanta, Minneapolis, Seattle, Tampa, Phoenix etc). We are not Jewish, but my kids all went to JCC preschool and still do some JCC camps. The public schools are very religiously diverse (including non religious), because many of the Catholic families send their kids to private school, even in the "good" school zones.

A lot of people will say they're "from St. Louis" but live 25 + miles outside of the city, where it is admittedly very white, very conservative, and very Christian. I was skeptical when DH got a job there, but we could not be happier.

PP you're responding to. That's nice to hear! I'm glad you found a great fit for your family.

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Anonymous wrote:We moved to an inner ring burb in St. Louis and absolutely love it. Public schools are top notch, I often bike to work (2 mi drive), kids walk to school, dh has a 20 min commute max downtown, everything is within 20 mins (zoo, lots of museums, botanical gardens, professional sports teams, symphony - most of which is free and has free parking). My mom moved here too from the nyc burbs and has never been happier. There are endless things to do and there is a lot less pretension

I live in the DC areas and don't hang around "pretensions people" Glad your happy but, no reason to knock DC area.

You're right, I am projecting, and I have not experienced living in DC proper with kids (I loved DC as a younger person). But comparing our experience in an affluent NYC burb to our experience in the St. Louis burbs, our quality of life (and bank account) are much better in the latter.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We moved to an inner ring burb in St. Louis and absolutely love it. Public schools are top notch, I often bike to work (2 mi drive), kids walk to school, dh has a 20 min commute max downtown, everything is within 20 mins (zoo, lots of museums, botanical gardens, professional sports teams, symphony - most of which is free and has free parking). My mom moved here too from the nyc burbs and has never been happier. There are endless things to do and there is a lot less pretension

Is it really church-oriented? We're Jewish (though basically non-practicing) and the one time I went to St. Louis for work I was struck by how often church came up, even in casual conversation. It just seemed so central to life, in a way that makes me feel like we'd never really fit in if we didn't attend.

No. It is heavily Catholic, but not evangelical. It has a surprisingly large Jewish community, at least where we live, although I would say the Jewish community is concentrated in Creve Coeur, Ladue, Clayton, and U City (basically the areas surrounding Wash U). Even in the region as a whole, metro STL has a higher percentage of Jews than many other cities (including Dallas, Houston, Atlanta, Minneapolis, Seattle, Tampa, Phoenix etc). We are not Jewish, but my kids all went to JCC preschool and still do some JCC camps. The public schools are very religiously diverse (including non religious), because many of the Catholic families send their kids to private school, even in the "good" school zones.

A lot of people will say they're "from St. Louis" but live 25 + miles outside of the city, where it is admittedly very white, very conservative, and very Christian. I was skeptical when DH got a job there, but we could not be happier.

These threads are always interesting to me. Coming from a midwest small city, I always wonder why the midwest gets romanticized as salt of the Earth. There are definitely pretentious people in these places.

I know a few families that have moved to the midwest to get away from the DMV so their kids can grow up in a less competitive environment and grow up with small town/mid west values. They all live in large homes in the nicest neighborhoods. Doesn't strike me as a "salt of the earth" environment.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We moved to an inner ring burb in St. Louis and absolutely love it. Public schools are top notch, I often bike to work (2 mi drive), kids walk to school, dh has a 20 min commute max downtown, everything is within 20 mins (zoo, lots of museums, botanical gardens, professional sports teams, symphony - most of which is free and has free parking). My mom moved here too from the nyc burbs and has never been happier. There are endless things to do and there is a lot less pretension

Is it really church-oriented? We're Jewish (though basically non-practicing) and the one time I went to St. Louis for work I was struck by how often church came up, even in casual conversation. It just seemed so central to life, in a way that makes me feel like we'd never really fit in if we didn't attend.

DP. That’s been my experience as well. It’s their way to socialize and to weed people out.

Anonymous wrote:We moved to an inner ring burb in St. Louis and absolutely love it. Public schools are top notch, I often bike to work (2 mi drive), kids walk to school, dh has a 20 min commute max downtown, everything is within 20 mins (zoo, lots of museums, botanical gardens, professional sports teams, symphony - most of which is free and has free parking). My mom moved here too from the nyc burbs and has never been happier. There are endless things to do and there is a lot less pretension

I live in the DC areas and don't hang around "pretensions people" Glad your happy but, no reason to knock DC area.

Anonymous wrote:We spent ten days outside of Akron, Ohio (fair lawn) in a very nice neighborhood where my sister and brother in law live. They have been in the area for about 4 years but this was the first time we spent real time there as they usually come here or else we meet somewhere. Let me just say it wasnt anything like the “ohio” or midwest you hear about on dcum. My nephews are split going to either a great public option and one goes to a jesuit highschool and both schools seem great. We went to a neighborhood pool a few times and the families seem normal/educated/ fun. Diversity wasnt as bad as I expected either, many black and Indian families in the development. There wasnt a “lack of things to do” either? We found beautiful metro parks with amazing hiking near by, we did things like top golf and trampoline parks. And what really got me thinking is my brother in law came for a 250k job that might pay a wee bit more in DC but not much and they got a really nice house for 560k and every dollar just seems to go much further. It really made me wonder if perhaps Ive glorified this area a bit too much. My nephews seem really happy and theres a airiness and relaxed undertone the entire household seems to have that I just yearn for. Anyone go somewhere else random and feel similar?

Nope! But then again I always recognized that one could be happy living elsewhere. Personally, while I don't like our summers I would not like Ohio's winters. I also never had a negative feeling towards the midwest.

Anonymous wrote:We moved to an inner ring burb in St. Louis and absolutely love it. Public schools are top notch, I often bike to work (2 mi drive), kids walk to school, dh has a 20 min commute max downtown, everything is within 20 mins (zoo, lots of museums, botanical gardens, professional sports teams, symphony - most of which is free and has free parking). My mom moved here too from the nyc burbs and has never been happier. There are endless things to do and there is a lot less pretension

Is it really church-oriented? We're Jewish (though basically non-practicing) and the one time I went to St. Louis for work I was struck by how often church came up, even in casual conversation. It just seemed so central to life, in a way that makes me feel like we'd never really fit in if we didn't attend.

DC can be a fine place to live kids if you have the money, but the problem is that it's riddled with so many strivers that the children don't develop the same types of friendships they do in other parts of the country.

There's little DC offers that you can't find elsewhere, and there are things DC lacks that you can find in other parts of the world. For instance, greenery.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We moved to an inner ring burb in St. Louis and absolutely love it. Public schools are top notch, I often bike to work (2 mi drive), kids walk to school, dh has a 20 min commute max downtown, everything is within 20 mins (zoo, lots of museums, botanical gardens, professional sports teams, symphony - most of which is free and has free parking). My mom moved here too from the nyc burbs and has never been happier. There are endless things to do and there is a lot less pretension

I live in DC because DH and I have this exact life (other than the free parking, which we don’t need because we can walk/take public transport to everything). If we didn’t, we’d move.

Where in DC do you live that your public schools are top notch?

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Anonymous wrote:Im sorry but the “educated” comment in this post kinda cracks me up! Yes, educated people exist outside of DC, NYC, etc! People in the DCUM have this sense of superiority (I’ll add I do live here)

That said, OP, I get what you are trying to say and we have had the same thoughts since we both grew up in PA. Just seems easier and more family oriented in some of these places… and of course the COL is better. But if your kids are happy is it worth uprooting them in hopes it’ll be better? I really don’t know what the answer is

.I'm sure a lot of places are educated but a lot of places don't respect education. It's more like something they had to do.

NP but honestly I don’t think the average DCUM poster (or DMV resident) “respects education” either… more like they respect credentials.

DC credentialism is one of my least favorite things about living here. It extends to everything -- look at the law they just passed in DC requiring childcare workers to have or be pursuing a degree in early childhood education. To .e this is so wrongheaded -- there are many ways to develop valuable knowledge and skills and school is just one of them and not necessarily even the best way for some professions. But people here love a degree.

Anonymous wrote:I live in DC proper and luckily I don’t know many people in real life who think and act the way people on DCUM do. DCUM is a weird place.

That’s because you don’t live in a UMC suburb.