Anonymous
06/22/2024 04:30
Subject: How does a coach selects who swims for events in A meets?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:For us it is the team reps' kid who isn't on the ladder because they aren't legal in the stroke. The kid of the team reps' friends who is way down on the ladder is also the one who swim up an age group. Ugh.
Did either of those kids take the place of a faster swimmer that was eligible and available to swim in those spots?
Sure did.
You are saying there is a team where a kid was say the 5th best 11-12 swimmer in an event, and they got moved up to swim in the 13-14 event over 13-14 year olds who are faster than they are? Because that seems crazy and I don’t understand how you could get away with that. Or does the team have a dearth of 13-14 year olds, so the 5th best 11-12 is faster than any of the 13-14s?
That’s what I was wondering also.
There aren't many 13-14 boys on the team so they swim up a 11 year old in the 13-14 heats. The 11 year old boy is close to the bottom of the ladder and there are many other 11-12 year olds who are faster who could have swum up instead of him. For the 8and under girls, their daughter is not even on the ladder because she has never swum a legal fly. Yet they throw her in an A meet to swim fly. There are a number of 8 and unders who are legal who could have taken that spot. And there are a number of other 8 and unders who are not legal yet either but who are faster than she. If you're going to swim someone who is not legal, wouldn't you swim the one who is fastest?
NVSL
This was happening on our team until a coup of sorts occurs (I think, I only had 7 yo at the time). So I only heard after the fact. But when we got new leadership we also got a real adult coach. We also got an app. All of which had times and the ladder was sent out weekly. The app contained the historical meet results going back several years. This is how I learned my then 7 yo who was winning the B meets in free was faster than several 8U A meet swimmers (she was not the only one either). But since I was clueless at the time I had no idea. With the new coach she miraculously started getting put in A meets.
Transparency is key. Swimming should be the most objective sport there is, times don’t lie.
Transparency is key in swimming. It’s a timed sport, there are no reasons that the times and placements in events should not be transparent. I’ve heard the whole “oh if we publish the ladder it makes kids feel bad” argument, but this is easily addressed by publishing only the top 5 or 7 or whatever is needed to account for A meet entries. In this particular sport no one should be left wondering about placements because it’s a matter of times. Even if you’re playing with who swims what stroke, it still comes down to times.
A kid took my daughter's place in the A meet this week based on a time for a B meet. The issue I have is that it was a B meet with another league that has different rules so they were allowed to use starting blocks, whereas our sanctioned meets don't have blocks. So her time was hundredths faster than my daughter's based on this one race with blocks (which my daughter didn't swim because she placed in that stroke at the A meet). Annoying, but it's summer swim so whatever.
Anonymous
06/21/2024 22:34
Subject: How does a coach selects who swims for events in A meets?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:For us it is the team reps' kid who isn't on the ladder because they aren't legal in the stroke. The kid of the team reps' friends who is way down on the ladder is also the one who swim up an age group. Ugh.
Did either of those kids take the place of a faster swimmer that was eligible and available to swim in those spots?
Sure did.
You are saying there is a team where a kid was say the 5th best 11-12 swimmer in an event, and they got moved up to swim in the 13-14 event over 13-14 year olds who are faster than they are? Because that seems crazy and I don’t understand how you could get away with that. Or does the team have a dearth of 13-14 year olds, so the 5th best 11-12 is faster than any of the 13-14s?
That’s what I was wondering also.
There aren't many 13-14 boys on the team so they swim up a 11 year old in the 13-14 heats. The 11 year old boy is close to the bottom of the ladder and there are many other 11-12 year olds who are faster who could have swum up instead of him. For the 8and under girls, their daughter is not even on the ladder because she has never swum a legal fly. Yet they throw her in an A meet to swim fly. There are a number of 8 and unders who are legal who could have taken that spot. And there are a number of other 8 and unders who are not legal yet either but who are faster than she. If you're going to swim someone who is not legal, wouldn't you swim the one who is fastest?
NVSL
These are the games our coach does not play (not NVSL). We have an elite 11-12 specialty stroke swimmer who is also faster than all of our 13-14s but our coach would never swim a kid up to displace an eligible kid in that age group even if it makes sense points wise. Are the 11-12 kids that are faster than the 11 year old being swum up still doing their max 2 events in the A meet? If so, it’s not something our coach would do, but I can see the rationale. Putting a swimmer in an event in an A meet despite never having put down a legal time in that event is crazy, although 8U fly is always a bit of a crapshoot.
That’s what I was going to clarify too. Are the faster 11/12s already swimming two events in their age group? If so, it doesn’t make sense to swim them up if they can score points in their age group and this slower 11 year old can’t. You’d swim that kid up to fill an empty lane in the absence of an eligible 13/14. (You’d only swim up the faster kids if they can also get the 13/14 points, otherwise, leave them where they are.)
If this kid is swimming in the meet and faster 11/12s in that event aren’t at all, then yeah, you should complain.
Same question on the legal 8Us this kid bumped. Are they already swimming other things in the meet?
Anonymous
06/21/2024 22:25
Subject: How does a coach selects who swims for events in A meets?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:For us it is the team reps' kid who isn't on the ladder because they aren't legal in the stroke. The kid of the team reps' friends who is way down on the ladder is also the one who swim up an age group. Ugh.
Did either of those kids take the place of a faster swimmer that was eligible and available to swim in those spots?
Sure did.
You are saying there is a team where a kid was say the 5th best 11-12 swimmer in an event, and they got moved up to swim in the 13-14 event over 13-14 year olds who are faster than they are? Because that seems crazy and I don’t understand how you could get away with that. Or does the team have a dearth of 13-14 year olds, so the 5th best 11-12 is faster than any of the 13-14s?
That’s what I was wondering also.
There aren't many 13-14 boys on the team so they swim up a 11 year old in the 13-14 heats. The 11 year old boy is close to the bottom of the ladder and there are many other 11-12 year olds who are faster who could have swum up instead of him. For the 8and under girls, their daughter is not even on the ladder because she has never swum a legal fly. Yet they throw her in an A meet to swim fly. There are a number of 8 and unders who are legal who could have taken that spot. And there are a number of other 8 and unders who are not legal yet either but who are faster than she. If you're going to swim someone who is not legal, wouldn't you swim the one who is fastest?
NVSL
This was happening on our team until a coup of sorts occurs (I think, I only had 7 yo at the time). So I only heard after the fact. But when we got new leadership we also got a real adult coach. We also got an app. All of which had times and the ladder was sent out weekly. The app contained the historical meet results going back several years. This is how I learned my then 7 yo who was winning the B meets in free was faster than several 8U A meet swimmers (she was not the only one either). But since I was clueless at the time I had no idea. With the new coach she miraculously started getting put in A meets.
Transparency is key. Swimming should be the most objective sport there is, times don’t lie.
Transparency is key in swimming. It’s a timed sport, there are no reasons that the times and placements in events should not be transparent. I’ve heard the whole “oh if we publish the ladder it makes kids feel bad” argument, but this is easily addressed by publishing only the top 5 or 7 or whatever is needed to account for A meet entries. In this particular sport no one should be left wondering about placements because it’s a matter of times. Even if you’re playing with who swims what stroke, it still comes down to times.
Anonymous
06/21/2024 21:29
Subject: How does a coach selects who swims for events in A meets?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:For us it is the team reps' kid who isn't on the ladder because they aren't legal in the stroke. The kid of the team reps' friends who is way down on the ladder is also the one who swim up an age group. Ugh.
Did either of those kids take the place of a faster swimmer that was eligible and available to swim in those spots?
Sure did.
You are saying there is a team where a kid was say the 5th best 11-12 swimmer in an event, and they got moved up to swim in the 13-14 event over 13-14 year olds who are faster than they are? Because that seems crazy and I don’t understand how you could get away with that. Or does the team have a dearth of 13-14 year olds, so the 5th best 11-12 is faster than any of the 13-14s?
That’s what I was wondering also.
There aren't many 13-14 boys on the team so they swim up a 11 year old in the 13-14 heats. The 11 year old boy is close to the bottom of the ladder and there are many other 11-12 year olds who are faster who could have swum up instead of him. For the 8and under girls, their daughter is not even on the ladder because she has never swum a legal fly. Yet they throw her in an A meet to swim fly. There are a number of 8 and unders who are legal who could have taken that spot. And there are a number of other 8 and unders who are not legal yet either but who are faster than she. If you're going to swim someone who is not legal, wouldn't you swim the one who is fastest?
NVSL
This was happening on our team until a coup of sorts occurs (I think, I only had 7 yo at the time). So I only heard after the fact. But when we got new leadership we also got a real adult coach. We also got an app. All of which had times and the ladder was sent out weekly. The app contained the historical meet results going back several years. This is how I learned my then 7 yo who was winning the B meets in free was faster than several 8U A meet swimmers (she was not the only one either). But since I was clueless at the time I had no idea. With the new coach she miraculously started getting put in A meets.
Transparency is key. Swimming should be the most objective sport there is, times don’t lie.
Anonymous
06/21/2024 21:28
Subject: How does a coach selects who swims for events in A meets?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:For us it is the team reps' kid who isn't on the ladder because they aren't legal in the stroke. The kid of the team reps' friends who is way down on the ladder is also the one who swim up an age group. Ugh.
Did either of those kids take the place of a faster swimmer that was eligible and available to swim in those spots?
Sure did.
You are saying there is a team where a kid was say the 5th best 11-12 swimmer in an event, and they got moved up to swim in the 13-14 event over 13-14 year olds who are faster than they are? Because that seems crazy and I don’t understand how you could get away with that. Or does the team have a dearth of 13-14 year olds, so the 5th best 11-12 is faster than any of the 13-14s?
That’s what I was wondering also.
There aren't many 13-14 boys on the team so they swim up a 11 year old in the 13-14 heats. The 11 year old boy is close to the bottom of the ladder and there are many other 11-12 year olds who are faster who could have swum up instead of him. For the 8and under girls, their daughter is not even on the ladder because she has never swum a legal fly. Yet they throw her in an A meet to swim fly. There are a number of 8 and unders who are legal who could have taken that spot. And there are a number of other 8 and unders who are not legal yet either but who are faster than she. If you're going to swim someone who is not legal, wouldn't you swim the one who is fastest?
NVSL
These are the games our coach does not play (not NVSL). We have an elite 11-12 specialty stroke swimmer who is also faster than all of our 13-14s but our coach would never swim a kid up to displace an eligible kid in that age group even if it makes sense points wise. Are the 11-12 kids that are faster than the 11 year old being swum up still doing their max 2 events in the A meet? If so, it’s not something our coach would do, but I can see the rationale. Putting a swimmer in an event in an A meet despite never having put down a legal time in that event is crazy, although 8U fly is always a bit of a crapshoot.
Anonymous
06/21/2024 21:25
Subject: How does a coach selects who swims for events in A meets?
Anonymous wrote: If you're going to swim someone who is not legal, wouldn't you swim the one who is fastest?
No. You swim the one who is closest to being legal. Neither is "faster". You don't get a time if you DQ.
Anonymous
06/21/2024 20:10
Subject: How does a coach selects who swims for events in A meets?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:For us it is the team reps' kid who isn't on the ladder because they aren't legal in the stroke. The kid of the team reps' friends who is way down on the ladder is also the one who swim up an age group. Ugh.
Did either of those kids take the place of a faster swimmer that was eligible and available to swim in those spots?
Sure did.
You are saying there is a team where a kid was say the 5th best 11-12 swimmer in an event, and they got moved up to swim in the 13-14 event over 13-14 year olds who are faster than they are? Because that seems crazy and I don’t understand how you could get away with that. Or does the team have a dearth of 13-14 year olds, so the 5th best 11-12 is faster than any of the 13-14s?
That’s what I was wondering also.
There aren't many 13-14 boys on the team so they swim up a 11 year old in the 13-14 heats. The 11 year old boy is close to the bottom of the ladder and there are many other 11-12 year olds who are faster who could have swum up instead of him. For the 8and under girls, their daughter is not even on the ladder because she has never swum a legal fly. Yet they throw her in an A meet to swim fly. There are a number of 8 and unders who are legal who could have taken that spot. And there are a number of other 8 and unders who are not legal yet either but who are faster than she. If you're going to swim someone who is not legal, wouldn't you swim the one who is fastest?
NVSL
Anonymous
06/20/2024 15:12
Subject: How does a coach selects who swims for events in A meets?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:For us it is the team reps' kid who isn't on the ladder because they aren't legal in the stroke. The kid of the team reps' friends who is way down on the ladder is also the one who swim up an age group. Ugh.
Did either of those kids take the place of a faster swimmer that was eligible and available to swim in those spots?
Sure did.
You are saying there is a team where a kid was say the 5th best 11-12 swimmer in an event, and they got moved up to swim in the 13-14 event over 13-14 year olds who are faster than they are? Because that seems crazy and I don’t understand how you could get away with that. Or does the team have a dearth of 13-14 year olds, so the 5th best 11-12 is faster than any of the 13-14s?
That’s what I was wondering also.