Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have no dog in this fight as we never bought a puddle jumper (ironically more so out of cheapness/laziness) but it seems the "documented dangers" are anecdotal? I mean those stories are terrifying but don't kids who have never had puddle jumpers also drown? How do we know it's the puddle jumper at fault and not the lack of supervision?

Yes. Reading along here and thinking about it-where I live unfortunately drownings happen due to the large amount of home pools (FL). In news coverage, it's always the child going out the door unnoticed to the pool area, pool gate left open, distracted adults at a party not watching, ect. Small children unfortunately are attracted to water whether they've ever worn a puddle jumper or not. The issue is an unsecured home pool.

You are not supposed to encourage a child to jump into a pool until they can self rescue. Because if they ever reach a pool unattended, that is what they are going to do. Jump in because it’s fun.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have no dog in this fight as we never bought a puddle jumper (ironically more so out of cheapness/laziness) but it seems the "documented dangers" are anecdotal? I mean those stories are terrifying but don't kids who have never had puddle jumpers also drown? How do we know it's the puddle jumper at fault and not the lack of supervision?

Yes. Reading along here and thinking about it-where I live unfortunately drownings happen due to the large amount of home pools (FL). In news coverage, it's always the child going out the door unnoticed to the pool area, pool gate left open, distracted adults at a party not watching, ect. Small children unfortunately are attracted to water whether they've ever worn a puddle jumper or not. The issue is an unsecured home pool.

You are not supposed to encourage a child to jump into a pool until they can self rescue. Because if they ever reach a pool unattended, that is what they are going to do. Jump in because it’s fun.

Random response to pp, but yes, they shouldn't jump in if they can't swim.

The problem is being unattended, and kids who drown don't always jump in-they often slip silently in. I myself nearly drowned at age 3-I 'slipped' into the pool at my family party. Cousin saw me out of the corner of his eye.

Well, the bigger issue is kids drowning at "non swimming" times. Family is at a rented beach house, everyone is having dinner or watching TV and no one has been swimming for hours. Child slips away and no one notices for a couple of minutes but by then its too late. Adults are less vigilant because no one was anywhere near the pool. Kids who are used to bobbing around in life jackets think of the pool as safe and fun, and not as a "no."

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have no dog in this fight as we never bought a puddle jumper (ironically more so out of cheapness/laziness) but it seems the "documented dangers" are anecdotal? I mean those stories are terrifying but don't kids who have never had puddle jumpers also drown? How do we know it's the puddle jumper at fault and not the lack of supervision?

Yes. Reading along here and thinking about it-where I live unfortunately drownings happen due to the large amount of home pools (FL). In news coverage, it's always the child going out the door unnoticed to the pool area, pool gate left open, distracted adults at a party not watching, ect. Small children unfortunately are attracted to water whether they've ever worn a puddle jumper or not. The issue is an unsecured home pool.

You are not supposed to encourage a child to jump into a pool until they can self rescue. Because if they ever reach a pool unattended, that is what they are going to do. Jump in because it’s fun.

Random response to pp, but yes, they shouldn't jump in if they can't swim.

The problem is being unattended, and kids who drown don't always jump in-they often slip silently in. I myself nearly drowned at age 3-I 'slipped' into the pool at my family party. Cousin saw me out of the corner of his eye.

Well, the bigger issue is kids drowning at "non swimming" times. Family is at a rented beach house, everyone is having dinner or watching TV and no one has been swimming for hours. Child slips away and no one notices for a couple of minutes but by then it's too late. Adults are less vigilant because no one was anywhere near the pool. Kids who are used to bobbing around in life jackets think of the pool as safe and fun, and not as a "no."

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have no dog in this fight as we never bought a puddle jumper (ironically more so out of cheapness/laziness) but it seems the "documented dangers" are anecdotal? I mean those stories are terrifying but don't kids who have never had puddle jumpers also drown? How do we know it's the puddle jumper at fault and not the lack of supervision?

Yes. Reading along here and thinking about it-where I live unfortunately drownings happen due to the large amount of home pools (FL). In news coverage, it's always the child going out the door unnoticed to the pool area, pool gate left open, distracted adults at a party not watching, ect. Small children unfortunately are attracted to water whether they've ever worn a puddle jumper or not. The issue is an unsecured home pool.

You are not supposed to encourage a child to jump into a pool until they can self rescue. Because if they ever reach a pool unattended, that is what they are going to do. Jump in because it’s fun.

Random response to pp, but yes, they shouldn't jump in if they can't swim.

The problem is being unattended, and kids who drown don't always jump in-they often slip silently in. I myself nearly drowned at age 3-I 'slipped' into the pool at my family party. Cousin saw me out of the corner of his eye.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have no dog in this fight as we never bought a puddle jumper (ironically more so out of cheapness/laziness) but it seems the "documented dangers" are anecdotal? I mean those stories are terrifying but don't kids who have never had puddle jumpers also drown? How do we know it's the puddle jumper at fault and not the lack of supervision?

Yes. Reading along here and thinking about it-where I live unfortunately drownings happen due to the large amount of home pools (FL). In news coverage, it's always the child going out the door unnoticed to the pool area, pool gate left open, distracted adults at a party not watching, ect. Small children unfortunately are attracted to water whether they've ever worn a puddle jumper or not. The issue is an unsecured home pool.

You are not supposed to encourage a child to jump into a pool until they can self rescue. Because if they ever reach a pool unattended, that is what they are going to do. Jump in because it’s fun.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have no dog in this fight as we never bought a puddle jumper (ironically more so out of cheapness/laziness) but it seems the "documented dangers" are anecdotal? I mean those stories are terrifying but don't kids who have never had puddle jumpers also drown? How do we know it's the puddle jumper at fault and not the lack of supervision?

Yes. Reading along here and thinking about it-where I live unfortunately drownings happen due to the large amount of home pools (FL). In news coverage, it's always the child going out the door unnoticed to the pool area, pool gate left open, distracted adults at a party not watching, ect. Small children unfortunately are attracted to water whether they've ever worn a puddle jumper or not. The issue is an unsecured home pool.

Anonymous wrote:I have no dog in this fight as we never bought a puddle jumper (ironically more so out of cheapness/laziness) but it seems the "documented dangers" are anecdotal? I mean those stories are terrifying but don't kids who have never had puddle jumpers also drown? How do we know it's the puddle jumper at fault and not the lack of supervision?

Anonymous wrote:I have no dog in this fight as we never bought a puddle jumper (ironically more so out of cheapness/laziness) but it seems the "documented dangers" are anecdotal? I mean those stories are terrifying but don't kids who have never had puddle jumpers also drown? How do we know it's the puddle jumper at fault and not the lack of supervision?

Anonymous wrote:I can’t believe all the people who apparently didn’t know the well established risks of puddle jumpers who instead of quietly just exiting the conversation are digging in their heels insisting their use is without potential consequences. Like you don’t even have to admit you didn’t know or were wrong, just don’t comment.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.facebook.com/WaterGuardiansLevisLegacy/posts/levi-wore-a-puddle-jumper-in-the-pool-mere-hours-before-he-died-i-thought-i-was-/400424450568839/

I don't know how you could read/watch this and ever use a puddle jumper again. Its willful ignorance.

The issue is people using puddle jumpers INSTEAD of swim lessons. That post and video both clearly explain the risk of puddle jumpers which is that they put kids in an upright position in the pool when they need to learn out to float on their backs. No one is advising using the puddle jumper that way on this thread.

We used the puddle jumper CONCURRENTLY with swim lessons that emphasized water safety and proper position. We also never let our kid go in or near the water unsupervised regardless of whether they were wearing a puddle jumper or not.

The scenario you are talking about is a child with no swim training whatsoever who acclimates to wearing a puddle jumper in the pool and assumes that's how swimming works and then falls or jumps in a pool and assumes the "puddle jumper position" (upright) and drowns. The man in that video talks about creating layers of protection for kids to avoid drowning. I agree. If you do not have a backyard pool (so no chance of your child wandering near or into the pool without your supervision) and only go to the pool when you can be watching the child attentively the whole time AND enroll your child in swim lessons as soon as possible AND reinforce the lessons on your own with supervised practice then there is absolutely no danger in ALSO letting your child sometimes play around in the pool wearing a puddle jumper. Because you already have several other layers of protection in place to prevent drowning.

It is very tragic when a child drowns. I have nothing but compassion for parents who go through that. But you can't assume that a single factor is the determining factor when there are a bunch of other factors that might not be the same in your situation. The post at the link talks about a child who used a puddle jumper and had no swimming lessons under his belt and then accessed a backyard pool on his own. That's awful but is not a situation my kid has ever or will ever be in.

How many 5 year olds in "swim lessons" still can't swim despite being in a puddle jumper since 2?

How many of you are using a car seat discouraged by most car safety experts? Yeah, didn't think so.

1) I have no idea but my kid learned to swim at 4 despite regularly using a puddle jumper so I don't buy that the puddle jumper somehow prevents learning to swim

2) Totally irrelevant but since you asked my kid was rear-facing until 4.5 and is still in a 5-point harness (high back booster) at almost 7 so your theory that people who use puddle jumpers like to play fast and loose with child safety is incorrect.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.facebook.com/WaterGuardiansLevisLegacy/posts/levi-wore-a-puddle-jumper-in-the-pool-mere-hours-before-he-died-i-thought-i-was-/400424450568839/

I don't know how you could read/watch this and ever use a puddle jumper again. Its willful ignorance.

The issue is people using puddle jumpers INSTEAD of swim lessons. That post and video both clearly explain the risk of puddle jumpers which is that they put kids in an upright position in the pool when they need to learn out to float on their backs. No one is advising using the puddle jumper that way on this thread.

We used the puddle jumper CONCURRENTLY with swim lessons that emphasized water safety and proper position. We also never let our kid go in or near the water unsupervised regardless of whether they were wearing a puddle jumper or not.

The scenario you are talking about is a child with no swim training whatsoever who acclimates to wearing a puddle jumper in the pool and assumes that's how swimming works and then falls or jumps in a pool and assumes the "puddle jumper position" (upright) and drowns. The man in that video talks about creating layers of protection for kids to avoid drowning. I agree. If you do not have a backyard pool (so no chance of your child wandering near or into the pool without your supervision) and only go to the pool when you can be watching the child attentively the whole time AND enroll your child in swim lessons as soon as possible AND reinforce the lessons on your own with supervised practice then there is absolutely no danger in ALSO letting your child sometimes play around in the pool wearing a puddle jumper. Because you already have several other layers of protection in place to prevent drowning.

It is very tragic when a child drowns. I have nothing but compassion for parents who go through that. But you can't assume that a single factor is the determining factor when there are a bunch of other factors that might not be the same in your situation. The post at the link talks about a child who used a puddle jumper and had no swimming lessons under his belt and then accessed a backyard pool on his own. That's awful but is not a situation my kid has ever or will ever be in.

How many 5 year olds in "swim lessons" still can't swim despite being in a puddle jumper since 2?

How many of you are using a car seat discouraged by most car safety experts? Yeah, didn't think so.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.facebook.com/WaterGuardiansLevisLegacy/posts/levi-wore-a-puddle-jumper-in-the-pool-mere-hours-before-he-died-i-thought-i-was-/400424450568839/

I don't know how you could read/watch this and ever use a puddle jumper again. Its willful ignorance.

The issue is people using puddle jumpers INSTEAD of swim lessons. That post and video both clearly explain the risk of puddle jumpers which is that they put kids in an upright position in the pool when they need to learn out to float on their backs. No one is advising using the puddle jumper that way on this thread.

We used the puddle jumper CONCURRENTLY with swim lessons that emphasized water safety and proper position. We also never let our kid go in or near the water unsupervised regardless of whether they were wearing a puddle jumper or not.

The scenario you are talking about is a child with no swim training whatsoever who acclimates to wearing a puddle jumper in the pool and assumes that's how swimming works and then falls or jumps in a pool and assumes the "puddle jumper position" (upright) and drowns. The man in that video talks about creating layers of protection for kids to avoid drowning. I agree. If you do not have a backyard pool (so no chance of your child wandering near or into the pool without your supervision) and only go to the pool when you can be watching the child attentively the whole time AND enroll your child in swim lessons as soon as possible AND reinforce the lessons on your own with supervised practice then there is absolutely no danger in ALSO letting your child sometimes play around in the pool wearing a puddle jumper. Because you already have several other layers of protection in place to prevent drowning.

It is very tragic when a child drowns. I have nothing but compassion for parents who go through that. But you can't assume that a single factor is the determining factor when there are a bunch of other factors that might not be the same in your situation. The post at the link talks about a child who used a puddle jumper and had no swimming lessons under his belt and then accessed a backyard pool on his own. That's awful but is not a situation my kid has ever or will ever be in.