Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The article would be better if there were a list of things that women don’t have to worry about.

Cleaning the gutters? I mean, as long as she can call someone else to do it.

Otherwise, go ahead and list them.

Never worry about the grass getting cut

Never has to discuss whether the tires need to be rotated

Never gives actors sound in the car a 2nd thought

Doesn’t know the vets name or even where they are

Never worry about lightbulbs

Never need to replace a light switch or ceiling fan

Don’t worry about the kids learning an instrument since he teaches them that

Don’t need to talk sorta (though I can but not to the level they care to)

Never edited a paper

Mousetraps

Never even need to understand how to trim a tree

Have no clue what indigenous plants are

Never split wood

Never started a fire

Don’t clean cars

Never grilled anything ever

No clue what days the trash goes to the curb

No idea how to get large trash pickups

Never made coffee


I could obviously learn or do all these but I don’t need to

In what universe do only men edit papers? How bizarre.

And I am a woman and I do most of these things. The point is that incompetence is never attractive. Imagine not knowing how to do a large trash pickup, when trash day is, etc.

DP. I've never met a man who cared if his wife could handle a large trash pickup or clean out a mousetrap. I've known plenty of women who could, probably most, but I've never sat around with my dad friends wondering why our wives aren't the ones cleaning up dead animals around the house.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree a lot of this list is super condescending but there’s some real truth to it. In my marriage, and the marriage of most of my friends the saying “he does his best and I do the rest” is 100 percent the case. It’s not that the dads don’t do anything, it’s that they view virtually everything as optional or extra credit. If my husband gets busy at work or wants to travel, he does that. If one of our kids has extra needs, that’s a problem mom will solve regardless of whether she also works or what else she has going on. My husband is not a bad guy and will laugh about both our moms raving how wonderful he is for taking a child to a physical (scheduled by mom, Who is at work and needs to be there because she handled the sick days last week because dad “can’t” reschedule any meetings) but he is still totally guilty of kicking anything hard or inconvenient to me. He knows that I will always always always find a way to do the things I think are important for the kids so he can just say “I can’t” guilt free.

Also this one reminded me of DCUM:
If I do a task incorrectly, people will tell my partner to praise me for trying.

Totally agree. "He does his best and I do the rest" is absolutely how my marriage and those of pretty much all my friends work. "His best" can vary a bit, but I only know one marriage where I genuinely think the dad is the primary parent and is doing "the rest" and he's a SAHD and his wife is an executive and they have one kid.

I think this is the dirty secret of most dual income couples. It looks pretty equal from the outside -- both partners work, they say the right things, dad is visibly doing stuff like taking kids to activities, cooking, seems engaged. But if you open things up and really look at what is happening, dad is taking kids to activities that mom (who also works) researched, arranged, and provided dad with the schedule for. Dad is cooking but so is mom, and mom is also thinking a week ahead to when her MIL is in town and suggesting they make and freeze an extra casserole so they have a quick dinner for the night she arrives. Mom doesn't always seem engaged, because she's exhausted and has a laundry list of things in her head to keep track of (including laundry).

But the veneer of "things are pretty equal!" is there because it's easier on everyone's ego and it keeps the ship afloat. You could nag and nitpick dad to death but he's never, ever going to do as much as mom. Ever. If you don't want to ruin your marriage and get a divorce, which most of us don't, you just accept the inequity and move on. But it's unequal. Very, very unequal.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's an idiotic list.

Agree. It's not 1950 anymore. My husband is 100% equal parent and spouse. Other than giving birth and breastfeeding, he handles just as much as I do. Plus he usually does so with less anxiety and worry, so he is happier while doing child raising and household tasks.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The article would be better if there were a list of things that women don’t have to worry about.

Cleaning the gutters? I mean, as long as she can call someone else to do it.

Otherwise, go ahead and list them.

Never worry about the grass getting cut

Never has to discuss whether the tires need to be rotated

Never gives actors sound in the car a 2nd thought

Doesn’t know the vets name or even where they are

Never worry about lightbulbs

Never need to replace a light switch or ceiling fan

Don’t worry about the kids learning an instrument since he teaches them that

Don’t need to talk sorta (though I can but not to the level they care to)

Never edited a paper

Mousetraps

Never even need to understand how to trim a tree

Have no clue what indigenous plants are

Never split wood

Never started a fire

Don’t clean cars

Never grilled anything ever

No clue what days the trash goes to the curb

No idea how to get large trash pickups

Never made coffee


I could obviously learn or do all these but I don’t need to

In what universe do only men edit papers? How bizarre.

And I am a woman and I do most of these things. The point is that incompetence is never attractive. Imagine not knowing how to do a large trash pickup, when trash day is, etc.

Anonymous wrote:It's an idiotic list.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The article would be better if there were a list of things that women don’t have to worry about.

Cleaning the gutters? I mean, as long as she can call someone else to do it.

Otherwise, go ahead and list them.

Never worry about the grass getting cut

Never has to discuss whether the tires need to be rotated

Never gives actors sound in the car a 2nd thought

Doesn’t know the vets name or even where they are

Never worry about lightbulbs

Never need to replace a light switch or ceiling fan

Don’t worry about the kids learning an instrument since he teaches them that

Don’t need to talk sorta (though I can but not to the level they care to)

Never edited a paper

Mousetraps

Never even need to understand how to trim a tree

Have no clue what indigenous plants are

Never split wood

Never started a fire

Don’t clean cars

Never grilled anything ever

No clue what days the trash goes to the curb

No idea how to get large trash pickups

Never made coffee


I could obviously learn or do all these but I don’t need to

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Dad here. I find the list incredibly insulting.

Granted, my wife works longer hours than I do, and as a result I probably do more than most fathers, but still:

“If I experience any stress at all while my partner is recovering from giving birth, people will tell her to do more for me. No one will ever tell me to do more for her, no matter how much she does or how little I do.” This is just arrant nonsense…

When I gave birth, my DH was uncomfortable at the hospital and pressured me to leave a day earlier than I had to because HE wanted to be home. I pushed back at first but I was exhausted from, you know, giving birth to a human being and immediately learning to breastfeed and having several additional medical procedures, so I finally gave in. And no one around me spoke up to say "Hey, a$$hole, your comfort is not actually paramount right now -- you could probably suck it up and spend one more night in the hospital so that your wife who is literally bleeding and in pain from having given birth to your child can get the care she needs."

When we were home with the baby, my DH had a 6 week paternity leave. During this leave, he went to the gym every single day (because he said he felt to antsy and cooped up if he didn't "get out") but when I pointed out that I was not having trouble finding time to shower every day, he immediately got defensive and said that was my fault for not prioritizing it and making arrangements for him to "cover" with the baby. It never occurred to him that the only reason he was able to go to the gym is that he took for granted that I would care for our newborn when he went, without being asked or instructed on it. I still remember the very first time I left the house without my baby, to go pick up take out for the family. I don't think I realized how tethered I'd been to her until the moment I was in a car, by myself. My DH never had that experience, not once.

My DH is considered a "good guy" and a "good dad" by most people, and he gets praised a lot for being an involved father. This is the tip of the iceberg in terms of the way our lives are deeply unequal and he seems fairly oblivious to it.

It is not nonsense.

It is nonsense. Your husband is either a jerk who has everyone fooled, and/or you guys are really bad at communicating.

But for the of us, it’s nonsense.

Anonymous wrote:I agree a lot of this list is super condescending but there’s some real truth to it. In my marriage, and the marriage of most of my friends the saying “he does his best and I do the rest” is 100 percent the case. It’s not that the dads don’t do anything, it’s that they view virtually everything as optional or extra credit. If my husband gets busy at work or wants to travel, he does that. If one of our kids has extra needs, that’s a problem mom will solve regardless of whether she also works or what else she has going on. My husband is not a bad guy and will laugh about both our moms raving how wonderful he is for taking a child to a physical (scheduled by mom, Who is at work and needs to be there because she handled the sick days last week because dad “can’t” reschedule any meetings) but he is still totally guilty of kicking anything hard or inconvenient to me. He knows that I will always always always find a way to do the things I think are important for the kids so he can just say “I can’t” guilt free.

Also this one reminded me of DCUM:
If I do a task incorrectly, people will tell my partner to praise me for trying.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Find it here: https://zawn.substack.com/p/the-dad-privilege-checklist

Please read the checklist and return for a conversation about it. I want to hear from others about their own experiences with coparenting their children with the children's dad.

Honestly, this is trope stacked on top of trope and is really some lazy thinking by someone heavily invested in martyred mothering (just note the name of the substack -- "Liberating Motherhood" -- this thing comes at this with an axe to grind and part of the business model is to stoke outrage; it's not dissimilar from right-wing news media like Fox or Newsmax in that regard.) The article itself incredibly lazy thinking that borrows the language of liberation theology for cynical purposes, and I'm going to hazard a guess that the "checklist" is just a crowdsourced list of grievances from women with a similar mindset. In other words, I don't think the author has any original thoughts on the matter.

This is not to say some individual items on the list aren't valid phenomena -- I have definitely been approached by women at the playground when I was out with my toddlers and praised for being a great dad and giving mom a "break," for example, but I've also been approached by women keen on "helping" me because they assumed by these women to be incompetent because I have a penis). So, this isn't really dad "privilege" so much as it is a recounting of various stereotypes that are harmful to both women AND men. It's kind of like the dumb, clueless dad trope you used to see in advertising (and thankfully don't see so much anymore, that ridiculous car commercial where the dad gets the wrong binky notwithstanding).

So, I'm not going to say "not all men." I'm going to say "hardly any men" fit this list of "privilege." (Another co-opted term intended to provoke a response, natch).

Let's just look at the first two:

I know that someone else will register my children for school.

I know that someone else will know the signs of developmental disabilities and mental health issues in my children.

I guess we're assume that these things are exclusively the mom's domain? But I don't think that's true in any family I know of. I will say that same as women are known to approach dads at playgrounds and either praise or offer to help them, schools similarly default to contacting the mom, nevermind the fact that most dads are perfectly competent and capable caregivers.

I know of NO families where the presence of developmental disabilities or mental health issues are unilateral concerns for just mom.

The third one on the list about giving birth was first the clue to me that this was a crowdsourced list -- it's just dripping with contempt and doesn't make sense.

The next two:

My partner will be judged for my parenting shortcomings.

I don’t have to worry about school supplies because someone else will do it for me.

I guess it's true that men, in general, don't give a shit what other people think so wouldn't fret about being "judged." That's not "privilege," however. That's just a case of having self-confidence. To the degree women have more insecurities and worry about what other people think, that's a woman problem (and probably an individual one), not some broader indictment of men; everyone should carry on without caring what other people think, much less caring if someone else is "judging."

The school supplies thing is just stupid -- we always did back-to-school shopping as a family and there were plenty of dads doing the same when we were at Staples or whatever.

The men I know make doctors appointments and take their kids to doctors. They cook. They plan birthday parties (granted, these birthday parties might not be the elaborate affairs some martyr moms might feel like they need to have so they don't feel judged, but that, again, is a woman problem, it's not "dad privilege."). They plan trips and pack their children for them. They chaperone school field trips. In fact, they do most of these things on this list except things they're physically incapable of, such as giving birth or breastfeeding. But they do, in fact, pick up the slack when their partners DO those physical things, the contemptuous tone of the bulleted list items notwithstanding.

So, I guess what I'm saying is I dispute the very premise of the article. I understand it was written to try to rile up women feeling resentful about things. But objectively, the insinuation that men don't do the things on this (ridiculously long, crow-sourced list) is unsupported by facts, except for some things that might fall more into the bucket of "emotional labor," which takes us back to those conversations since, at the end of the day, there are some things some moms care a lot more about than most dads -- and most of those are grounded in <checks notes> fear of "being judged" or other anxieties that men, generally, don't have.

Is not having that anxiety "dad privilege?" I suppose you could make the case. But, honestly, moms didn't have that anxiety for most millennia. If the supposition here is that men should start caring about these things that give moms anxiety (fear of being judged...) that's arguably stupid. Misery loves company, sure... But maybe, just maybe, women should take a page from the attitude most dads have and stop obsessing so much about things that don't matter in the long run.

+1,000 to this guy.

I work FT and am a very involved dad, and always have been. So were my dad, and my FIL.

My wife works PT, and does more than half, but less than 2/3 of family logistical management.

I do all grocery shopping and 90% of the cooking.

Many of you are complaining, essentially, that the judgment from society surrrounding parenting and child outcomes falls primarily on mom. There is truth to that.

You’re ignoring that, likewise, the judgment for the family’s earning and financial situation falls primarily on dad. When people think “it’s too bad they aren’t able to stay in a fancier hotel at Disney World, or travel to Europe for Spring Break, or send four kids to private colleges,” they’re wondering why dad doesn’t earn more. Not mom. So enjoy your “mom privilege.”

Ultimately, only we can decide for ourselves wise will individually adopt this guilt as our own burdens. My wife and I decided long ago that we would not, and we’re a lot happier for it. Highly recommend anyone who wants to submit such lists to substack instead try to find the same peace and confidence.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The article would be better if there were a list of things that women don’t have to worry about.

Cleaning the gutters? I mean, as long as she can call someone else to do it.

Otherwise, go ahead and list them.

Never worry about the grass getting cut

Never has to discuss whether the tires need to be rotated

Never gives actors sound in the car a 2nd thought

Doesn’t know the vets name or even where they are

Never worry about lightbulbs

Never need to replace a light switch or ceiling fan

Don’t worry about the kids learning an instrument since he teaches them that

Don’t need to talk sorta (though I can but not to the level they care to)

Never edited a paper

Mousetraps

Never even need to understand how to trim a tree

Have no clue what indigenous plants are

Never split wood

Never started a fire

Don’t clean cars

Never grilled anything ever

No clue what days the trash goes to the curb

No idea how to get large trash pickups

Never made coffee


I could obviously learn or do all these but I don’t need to

In our house DW calls most of those those things “hobbies” so they don’t count. Two hours of getting our internet back up or printer working again counts as “fooling around on the computer.” Lol. In the world many women seem to want, all tasks that are traditionally coded as “female” must be shared 50/50 on feminist grounds, and any traditionally “male” coded tasks simply don’t enter the calculation, ever. And while most women are more than willing to negotiate in excruciating detail regarding the specific allocation of particular domestic tasks, there is zero willingness to negotiate regarding whether or not something really needs to be done first place or to what standard it must be done to. What many women seem to want, in essence, is for their spouses to undertake 50% of whatever labor is needed to avoid the potential judgment of other women. I pull my weight, but I’m not going to do a lot of unneeded work because she is worried about what the other moms might think. Sorry not sorry.

Anonymous wrote:The equity and privilege and liberation wording in this is frankly embarrassing and cringe.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Dad here. I find the list incredibly insulting.

Granted, my wife works longer hours than I do, and as a result I probably do more than most fathers, but still:

“If I experience any stress at all while my partner is recovering from giving birth, people will tell her to do more for me. No one will ever tell me to do more for her, no matter how much she does or how little I do.” This is just arrant nonsense…

When I gave birth, my DH was uncomfortable at the hospital and pressured me to leave a day earlier than I had to because HE wanted to be home. I pushed back at first but I was exhausted from, you know, giving birth to a human being and immediately learning to breastfeed and having several additional medical procedures, so I finally gave in. And no one around me spoke up to say "Hey, a$$hole, your comfort is not actually paramount right now -- you could probably suck it up and spend one more night in the hospital so that your wife who is literally bleeding and in pain from having given birth to your child can get the care she needs."

When we were home with the baby, my DH had a 6 week paternity leave. During this leave, he went to the gym every single day (because he said he felt to antsy and cooped up if he didn't "get out") but when I pointed out that I was not having trouble finding time to shower every day, he immediately got defensive and said that was my fault for not prioritizing it and making arrangements for him to "cover" with the baby. It never occurred to him that the only reason he was able to go to the gym is that he took for granted that I would care for our newborn when he went, without being asked or instructed on it. I still remember the very first time I left the house without my baby, to go pick up take out for the family. I don't think I realized how tethered I'd been to her until the moment I was in a car, by myself. My DH never had that experience, not once.

My DH is considered a "good guy" and a "good dad" by most people, and he gets praised a lot for being an involved father. This is the tip of the iceberg in terms of the way our lives are deeply unequal and he seems fairly oblivious to it.

It is not nonsense.